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Jocca Quinn
Matari BackBone
Fate Weavers
Posted - 2011.02.06 20:51:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: CCP Optimal
Some of you have mentioned that CTRL + click sometimes does not seem to work 100% of the time. I'm not able to reproduce this problem, so any additional information would be very helpful (what do you have in focus before pressing CTRL, are you clicking the overview entry or the bracket while holding CTRL, etc.).


It is not that CTRL and click does not work, its that it does not work in the way it used to.

Previously you could hold CTRL and click immediately. Now you have to hold CTRL and WAIT for the "LOCK TARGET click target" message to appear on your HUD BEFORE you can click on the target. I do not think it matters wether you are clicking on the overview or on the HUD.

Reproduction is easy, hold CTRL and click onto something before you get the message, nothing will happen.

TLDR - the new system introduces a delay into the CTRL and click, rather than CTRL + click it is now CTRL (count to 3) + click.

JQ

Lijhal
Posted - 2011.02.06 21:01:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Jocca Quinn

TLDR - the new system introduces a delay into the CTRL and click, rather than CTRL + click it is now CTRL (count to 3) + click.
JQ


i second that! as far as i can tell most people (including me) want the old system, without the current delay, back.

CCP Optimal

Posted - 2011.02.06 21:22:00 - [33]
 

I think some of the problems you are describing with the combat shortcuts not working at all might be related to a misunderstanding of how they are designed to work. There are two ways of using a combat shortcut:
  1. Holding the combat shortcut key down, and then clicking the desired entity to apply it to. This was basically just taking the old CTRL+click targeting functionality and applying it to other in-space actions
  2. Having focus set to the overview and just pressing the combat shortcut key (no mouse clicking required). This functionality was added for those who would like to do combat without using the mouse at all.
Clicking an entity in space, and THEN pressing a combat shortcut key, will however not work, as this would probably end up with a lot of accidental command executions.

CCP Optimal

Posted - 2011.02.06 21:30:00 - [34]
 

The delay mentioned is only applied to the rendering of the "LOCK TARGET" message, and not to the actual triggering of the command, so you do not have to wait for the message to appear. This was introduced since CTRL is used in several other shortcuts, and it would get annoying to have flashing text every time you used one of them.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.06 22:29:00 - [35]
 

The shortcut bugs don't have anything to do with new shortcuts being added, at least as far as I could tell. They seem to have more to do with the old ctrl-click not working. I cleared out the new ones that seemed likely to result in accidental deaths (almost all the new ones.)

One I was able to get 100% repeatable results with was the following behavior:
Old way - hold ctrl - E (drones engage shortcut) - click to lock new targets - release ctrl
new way - hold ctrl - E (engage) - release ctrl - hold ctrl - click to lock new targets - release ctrl

-I've also seen what seemed like if you didn't wait for the 'lock target' message to come up, targets are less likely to lock.
-Also as I've said before, there seems to be issues with going from the focus in one/no windows and trying to lock something on the overview not working. I get almost 100% reliable locking if I click the overview, then hold ctrl, then start locking targets, and very very poor reliability otherwise.

Seems to me the issues some people are having are a combination of things.

I am alt-tabbing multiple clients with Windows XP, specifically in a missions situation. I just cleared the cache files as instructed and will test again.

ChaseTheLasers
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
Posted - 2011.02.06 22:30:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: ChaseTheLasers on 06/02/2011 22:32:44
CCP Optimal - How to replicate the focus issue:

1)Use a machine with dual (or more) monitors. It will make it much easier to replicate.
2)Load eve and get into a state where you can target something
3)CTRL + click to lock something
4)Click onto your other screen. It could just be your desktop or browser....doesn't matter.
5)*Move* your mouse back over the Eve window, but do not click on it. Now press control and select something to lock.
6)You will now hear the standard Eve selection sound being played - the game is picking up the mouse press fine. It will even alter the background of the item you're trying to lock to signify this, but it will *not* lock it.

Work around: You must manually select the Eve window with a single mouse click first before step 5. This will now pick up CTRL+Click as normal.

TL;DR - Eve will no longer pick up the lock shortcut CTRL + click if it is not in focus. This did not happen before the short-cut changes.

Regards

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.06 23:48:00 - [37]
 

After clearing my cache (manually), I experienced fewer overview/shortcut oddities.

What I'm seeing now is that maybe a lot of the issues, such as the "wait to lock" might be the result of the new shortcuts being further away from the core code. General client-side perforance since the new shortcuts isn't as 'snappy' and quick since the expansion, especially where shortcuts are involved. If you try to issue a lock command before the client has sat down with a good book titled "ctrl is being pressed" it won't realize that you intend to lock somebody. Interesting side effects of this and other random UI glitches:

-misplaced modules, my favorite is 2 tractor beams on 1 target with no way of telling which is actually doing the job
-overview taking a good 30 seconds to respond to changes in sorting
-ctrl-d (to recall drones) alt-tab, being interpreted by the client as alt-d (open scanning window)
-tactical overlay not loading on undock, especially if you warp off before all the graphics load
-tacitcal overlay having a random line that goes straight down from the ship into nothingness
-not to mention the already mentioned accidental double-clicks trying to get the damned UI to respond.

Normally I'd say maybe my computer just sucks (which it probably does) but seeing a decrease in performance without any improvements to justify it is just not cool.

Calathea Sata
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.02.06 23:54:00 - [38]
 

CCP hire people to do the job yourselves; we're here to play the game, not to fix it for you.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.02.07 06:17:00 - [39]
 

Still waiting for a dev response to the unreliability of ctrl-click, shortcuts, and such. How many people does the new mushy UI affect? Is getting it back to pre-incursion snappiness a priority for CCP at all?

Everinsearch
Posted - 2011.02.07 07:19:00 - [40]
 

I bound space to "select overview". Now I hit space before I issue my keycommand q,s,w,ect...

I like the new changes, and it is my belief that they have improved my ability to move greatly.

It plays more like klingon academy did back in the day now. Using the same keys even that I used to approach or evade my target in that game.

So for me in eve, I hit spacebar to select the overview, then the arrowkeys to move the highlight onto who I want to target, then I can press my target key (which I bound to T), and finally I run my fingers across all my Fkeys to pew pew.

All of that without a mouse. And my one armed motherinlaw whos really old and likes to play eve on my account now and then can pwn people.Mad


Kelkam
Posted - 2011.02.07 08:09:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Everinsearch
I bound space to "select overview". Now I hit space before I issue my keycommand q,s,w,ect...

I like the new changes, and it is my belief that they have improved my ability to move greatly.

It plays more like klingon academy did back in the day now. Using the same keys even that I used to approach or evade my target in that game.

So for me in eve, I hit spacebar to select the overview, then the arrowkeys to move the highlight onto who I want to target, then I can press my target key (which I bound to T), and finally I run my fingers across all my Fkeys to pew pew.

All of that without a mouse. And my one armed motherinlaw whos really old and likes to play eve on my account now and then can pwn people.Mad




Shocked

Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2011.02.07 10:21:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: CCP Optimal
The delay mentioned is only applied to the rendering of the "LOCK TARGET" message, and not to the actual triggering of the command, so you do not have to wait for the message to appear. This was introduced since CTRL is used in several other shortcuts, and it would get annoying to have flashing text every time you used one of them.


I'm suffering from an intermittant bug (as in, it does not always occur) when attempting to CTRL+click a target that has an unlockable state.

i.e. something just came out of warp -> ctrl + click -> get invulnerable message

That is the normal part, the buggy part is, if the target changes states to being lockable, CTRL + click will still not lock the target UNLESS I first let go of control and then try again.

Annoyingly this has cost me two ships already :/


Zaotome
Posted - 2011.02.07 11:15:00 - [43]
 

i didnt read all posts, but want to mnetion my observations...
i run 3 clients running on 3 different monitors
pressing ctrl-klick to lock target works as long as the cklick goes to the overview of the client with the aktive focus
but if you ctrl-click on a client without focus it doesnt really work
my workaround is to aktivate the focus on the client with a single click into space and then lock my target(s)

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2011.02.07 11:26:00 - [44]
 

Im still experiencing the ctrl+click lock bug, some times it wont lock the target at all, somtimes theres a delay before a click locks and somtimes works as it used to (no delay instant lock count down)

Sienna Bara
Posted - 2011.02.18 23:53:00 - [45]
 

Yeah the Ctrl + click to lock targets in multiple eve clients require you to activate the specific client first then ctrl+click.

It didnt use to be this way and its rather irritating when you dualbox. If things need to happen quickly and you forget to activate the right window can be costly.

I hope CCP can sort it out so we dont have to spesifically activate the client we want to ctrl+click in.

Everinsearch
Posted - 2011.02.19 00:25:00 - [46]
 

Again the new controls are awesome. TYVM.
Need head-tracking for camera view/mouse emulation, and a couple keys for drones and its perfect.

Having targeting issues? Bind a key to target rather than control clicking.

Only time you control click is when you need to select multiple items.

ChaseTheLasers
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
Posted - 2011.03.07 00:01:00 - [47]
 

*bump*

Any progress replicating this CCP Optical?

Many thanks

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.03.07 00:15:00 - [48]
 

Sounds like 2 issues.

1) The code isn't keeping track of a pressed ctrl/shift/alt key as being down until released. Separately to other keys.
Instead it would appear that the code is looking for keys in combination, if the ctrl hasn't been pressed again for each combination it doesn't count as being held.

2) The code is only monitoring keystrokes within the focused window.
For ctrl/shift/alt this should be a Windows API hook to track these keys beyond the Eve client.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2011.03.07 12:13:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: mkmin
Originally by: CCP Optimal
As mentioned above, the bug with the overview not freezing properly when combat commands were triggered has now been solved.

The problem with the new, single key shortcuts (Q for approach, W for orbit, etc.) is that if focus is set to anything that accepts character input (a chat window for example), that window will utilize the character input event and the command will not get triggered. If you feel this is not acceptible, you can easily re-bind the commands to new shortcut key combinations that include modkeys (CTRL, ALT, SHIFT, MOUSE3/4/5) in which case window focus does not matter and the command will always be triggered.

Some of you have mentioned that CTRL + click sometimes does not seem to work 100% of the time. I'm not able to reproduce this problem, so any additional information would be very helpful (what do you have in focus before pressing CTRL, are you clicking the overview entry or the bracket while holding CTRL, etc.).
The problem is that if the overview does not have focus, ctrl-clicking to lock does not work. Other things that might have focus are empty space, chat windows, P&P window, etc.
The issue is that CTRL locking works perfectly for both CCP Optimal and me. Have you, as an experiment, tried to temp. delete your cache and settings and see if the problem persists?


Have you, as an experiment, tried to press and hold CTRL when the EVE client is not the active window and then, while still holding down CTRL, clicked on a lockable target in your overview?

I wouldn't call that working perfectly.

white kight
Helljumpers
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.03.07 16:42:00 - [50]
 

@ CCP Optimal, try to replicate this by running eve in windowed mode, click out of eve, then try to do ctrl click, it used to work before the shortcuts change but not now, hope that helps you to replicate it.

I run dual clients on dual monitors, so am clicking between the 2 all the time and when i try to ctrl click on the other client to the one i am using it fails to do anything, yet it used to.

Hope this helps!!!

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2011.03.07 18:06:00 - [51]
 

I play with multiple monitors, clients etc.. (It would really take away from play without at least a map up on another monitor)

the thread is good in that when I'm selecting another monitor, it sounds like i should always select that monitor by first clicking on the overview and THEN control clicking if i want to lock.

More worysome is that the pressing control doesn't reliably keep the order of the overview from shifting. I guess any time I clicked on anything else, I need to re-select the overview , then after it is selected hold control.

Freezing the overview is a vitally important tool for those of us with a bit worse eyesight (even with glasses, focusing on a given line takes abit longer) and with slower fast-twitch muslces that can't handle a spastically jumping overview. I hope I can get it to work consitently.

Im Blue
Posted - 2011.03.07 19:52:00 - [52]
 

run 2 3 or sometimes even 4 clients.

now i have to click client ctl lock, let go of ctrl, click next client ctrl lock. let go fo ctrl, click next client ctrl lock...

it never was this way. pls put it back to hold ctrl, click client 1 2 3 4 target on all 4 clients

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.03.08 00:43:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 08/03/2011 00:58:06
Understand it now CCP?

Able to duplicate?

Need more?

* Revert to Windows API key hooks for monitoring key combinations regardless of window focus.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms644990 v=VS.85 .aspx
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/454477/global-hook-setwindowshookex

Im Blue
Posted - 2011.03.08 12:19:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: CCP Optimal

Some of you have mentioned that CTRL + click sometimes does not seem to work 100% of the time. I'm not able to reproduce this problem, so any additional information would be very helpful (what do you have in focus before pressing CTRL, are you clicking the overview entry or the bracket while holding CTRL, etc.).


do you need more info so you can fix this issue? or do you have enough?

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2011.03.08 15:50:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Im Blue

do you need more info so you can fix this issue? or do you have enough?


they are busy writing new patches that reintroduce old bugs now. 1.3 = empty assets window for example

Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
Posted - 2011.03.09 02:38:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 09/03/2011 02:44:20
Any progress?

edit: Last you left as with was "working as intended" which is clearly not the case, please confirm you recognise the bug now.

Xercodo
Amarr
Xovoni Directorate
Posted - 2011.03.09 02:55:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Rasz Lin
Originally by: Im Blue

do you need more info so you can fix this issue? or do you have enough?


they are busy writing new patches that reintroduce old bugs now. 1.3 = empty assets window for example


They are hiring new QA interns so shut up and go help catch these bugs then

I would totally apply but I've got other commitments...

Im Blue
Posted - 2011.03.09 09:26:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: CCP Optimal
The delay mentioned is only applied to the rendering of the "LOCK TARGET" message, and not to the actual triggering of the command, so you do not have to wait for the message to appear. This was introduced since CTRL is used in several other shortcuts, and it would get annoying to have flashing text every time you used one of them.


you are wrong, targeting on more than 1 client is delayed. have you been able to test this yet? any fix yet?

Ban Doga
Posted - 2011.03.09 09:50:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Xercodo
Originally by: Rasz Lin
Originally by: Im Blue

do you need more info so you can fix this issue? or do you have enough?


they are busy writing new patches that reintroduce old bugs now. 1.3 = empty assets window for example


They are hiring new QA interns so shut up and go help catch these bugs then

I would totally apply but I've got other commitments...


Oh, so you are the one with the legitimate reason for not taking the job and not having to shut up?!
Glad to meet you at last.


I also love how "Years of EVE Online gaming experience" is just as a good as "A BSc degree in Computer Science or related field".
I mean hiring policies have never any effect on the final product... Rolling Eyes

"We're looking for someone who's totally into cables as head of your network maintenance teams.
If you don't love cables some BSc in a related field might do as well. Drop us a line to discuss the details..."

Im Blue
Posted - 2011.03.10 07:51:00 - [60]
 

have you confirmed the bug with more than 1 client and ctrl lock yet?


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