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blankseplocked Change timers to remove gate cloak exploitation
 
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CE Hoe
Posted - 2011.02.01 17:36:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: CE Hoe on 01/02/2011 18:10:37
While engaging a Frenrir in lowsec today, the pilot used a gate and proceeded to log off as soon as he hit the next system, when he came out of cloak we only had 30 seconds to target him and shoot him before he vanished(not warped off, but completely vanished because he had not fired on us, he was only subject to a 1 minute timer). I've been informed that this is not an exploit, however I beleive this fits the definition of the word and perhaps game mechanics should be changed to prevent this issue. I understand the need to remove ships from space when a player disconnects and fairly quickly to prevent issues of people losing connection and getting destroyed but in this situation it was going to be a clear loss of his ship and he disconnected to exploit the flaw in the system. It would be nice if there was a timer for being shot at because that means you have put yourself into a pvp situation and you should have to think it out or fight it out....instead of just logging it out. This current system means I can tank a domi, fly it anywhere in lowsec to search for miners, if I come across bad odds I can just log and be gone in a minute, which in most situations, I can tank for that long.

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.01 17:39:00 - [2]
 

The problem is, how do you fix this, but not punish the guy that legitimately D/C's upon loading the system?

CE Hoe
Posted - 2011.02.01 17:47:00 - [3]
 

If somebody engages in PvP action and loses connection that should be a risk that they take, when 10 people lose a satisfying kill because 1 person loses their connection, that results in 10 upset people and 1 happy person. Essentially the situation is that if you have connection or computer issues, you should not be engaging in risky activity, such as flying in lowsec/nullsec.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.02.01 18:13:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: CE Hoe
If somebody engages in PvP action and loses connection that should be a risk that they take, when 10 people lose a satisfying kill because 1 person loses their connection, that results in 10 upset people and 1 happy person. Essentially the situation is that if you have connection or computer issues, you should not be engaging in risky activity, such as flying in lowsec/nullsec.


And tell me again how a Fenrir "engages" in combat?

barnacle cloud
Posted - 2011.02.01 18:26:00 - [5]
 

well its more like why should a freighter pilot get away with making the colossal mistake of jumping into a gate camp?

Medarr
Amarr
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.02.01 20:38:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: CE Hoe
If somebody engages in PvP action and loses connection that should be a risk that they take, when 10 people lose a satisfying kill because 1 person loses their connection, that results in 10 upset people and 1 happy person. Essentially the situation is that if you have connection or computer issues, you should not be engaging in risky activity, such as flying in lowsec/nullsec.


right..

0/10

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.02.01 21:30:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: CE Hoe
If somebody engages in PvP action and loses connection that should be a risk that they take, when 10 people lose a satisfying kill because 1 person loses their connection, that results in 10 upset people and 1 happy person. Essentially the situation is that if you have connection or computer issues, you should not be engaging in risky activity, such as flying in lowsec/nullsec.


Because disconnects are always the end users fault and never CCP's

Phornedas
Posted - 2011.02.03 02:00:00 - [8]
 

True I saw this, it felt compleately off... it was like TA DA!!! Its gone!!!!

Alaxander Row
Minmatar
Shinsengumi.
PURgE Alliance
Posted - 2011.02.03 02:16:00 - [9]
 

Bull****. another obi another logoffski. Teamspeak 3 has the ability to distinguish between a disconect and a time out, time outs should save the offending ship, but logging off. is like walking out of the captains chair, and saying well that was dumb, ill be back and get out later, how is this a sci-fi simulator, if you can walk out of your chair so to say and get out without a worry. Anyone who checks eve news, logofffsking has become synonymous with super capital pilots. if your are in a capital ship (i classify a freighter and orca as capitals due to build requirments), you should stay in space for 15 minutes, simple this is a exploit, even if you petition ccp for this they say it is not a exploit. HOW? it is a game mechanic being exploited to save you from your own stupidity. i applaud the CCVA titan pilot who went down with his avatar, he could have logged and saved his multi billion isk ship, CCP its simple the log off mechanic is Out dated and broken please fix it. hell go talk to the TS guys im sure they could give you a piece of code that will differentiate between logg and disco.

Misanthra
Posted - 2011.02.03 02:29:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Magnus Orin
The problem is, how do you fix this, but not punish the guy that legitimately D/C's upon loading the system?


this.....ccp can't provide 100% guarantee service from their server to your puter. ISP's, pos home routers...lots they don't control.

Throw in the fact eve has the whole you die you lose everything going, if nothing in place for actual network problems....it would have died year one. Especially with their crappy replacement program. Unless you can air tight case prove it, your pith a fit cnr you lost jsut sees one cnr in your hangar bone stock after the petition closed (because....wait for it....the logs show nothing).

Easiest fix for this is sadly to lose the lose everything model when popped. Then a dc (or blatant freighter bunny hop ) a non-issue. Not happening, and not wanted. PvP would go to crap (warhammer players know how this goes....everyone jsut keep rushing in till bored...at least with eve if you kill 20 caps a day for 7 days...at some point the enemy alliance won't be fielding as many caps at some point lol). And plex pulled off the market quick as well (if no one ever paid for lsot ships and cargo ever again....no one would ever pay for eve again past 3 months lol).


Hicksimus
Gallente
Mom's Friendly Spaceship Company
Posted - 2011.02.03 04:13:00 - [11]
 

The issue here is that if you are mining and disconnect and you aren't in PVP, sure 1 minute is extremely fair, even shorter would be alright. But when somebody is shooting a person and has that person tackled a disconnection should not move the engaged persons ship out after 1 minute. They should be in space for 5 or even 15 minutes, if ccp wants to make them AI controlled for that period of time, that is great. But the fact stands that if you have somebody tackled and they are going to die and they disconnect to save themselves that is a blatant exploit of the game, CCP does not need to punish these people since it is possible they are innocent, but they need to acknowledge when a fair kill has been earned, or implement a system that does not punish the majority. For reverberation project this is the second Freighter this week, they are not even using scouts because it is so safe.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.02.03 04:39:00 - [12]
 

Aggro timer for getting shot at? lulz?Laughing

Logoffski is part of the game, htfu.

Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2011.02.03 05:33:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Magnus Orin
The problem is, how do you fix this, but not punish the guy that legitimately D/C's upon loading the system?


When you have a legitimate disconnect the game usually detect it way later that someone voluntarily logging out. With current mechanics someone with a genuine disconnect is already more at risk than a weasel logging out.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2011.02.03 08:20:00 - [14]
 

Awesome tears, thanks for the laugh. 7/10 LaughingLaughing

Echo Byteme
Posted - 2011.02.03 12:25:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Echo Byteme on 03/02/2011 12:25:41
i am with stupid above ^^

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.02.03 12:35:00 - [16]
 

even despite of my sympathy for delicious pirate tears, I support the idea of removing the "disconnect escape" from the game.
I honestly think the risk of loosing a ship due to disconnects should always be with the owner of that ship, nobody else.
Everybody, who is going to interact with players, enter player space or take any actions related to other players should receive the risk of loosing it in case of a disconnect.

Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.02.03 13:03:00 - [17]
 

sry op, working as intended.

As a matter of fact last night in mid fight i noticed something strange as nobody was speaking on comms, and target was still in same condition, and that lasted for 2 mins...

Finally i realized my connection was lost and i had to punch my internet router few times and call it bad names so it finally started to work.

....5 min later, i hear comms again, i log in and surprise my ship is alive LOL.
------

and one more thing OP, you gotta learn t adapt and learn like the rest. (add him to address book and if he logs in in next 15 mins just for a micro second he is yours).




Woodman57
Posted - 2011.02.03 13:36:00 - [18]
 

I thought if you had someone warp scrammed, they would stay in place for 15 minutes even if they logged off, is this not correct?

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.02.03 13:42:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 03/02/2011 13:55:28

Originally by: Woodman57
I thought if you had someone warp scrammed, they would stay in place for 15 minutes even if they logged off, is this not correct?


its rather about situations, where noone manages to get aggro (because of said cloak mechanics) before the dude logs off. Example is an unscouted freighter jumping into a lowsec camp and then logging, where he actually should die. Beyond that, 15 minutes are way too short for taking down a tackled supercapital, here a logoff is a safe escape again where a loss mail should be a consequence of being tackled and having no support around. This logoffski mechanics render supercapital ships even more overpowered because of the safe quit possiblity via logoff than they are already.

Logoff/disconnect in unpleasant situations should always result in a disadvantage/ship loss for those, who leave the game.

The ship should stay for a minute there, where disconnect happened before emergency warping off so everybody gets a chance to tackle it. Got tackled in that time? Well, then stay there when pointed until you're shot down/released and the aggro timer of 15 minutes expires, then vanish - as penalty for leaving the game in a hot situation.

Bad internet connection should not be a valid excuse for evading consequences; bad internet connection is not a fault of other players which take the responsibility/risk for entering hot places of their own.

Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.02.03 14:26:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 03/02/2011 13:55:28
Bad internet connection should not be a valid excuse for evading consequences; bad internet connection is not a fault of other players which take the responsibility/risk for entering hot places of their own.

A bad internet connection isn't always the fault of the player in question either, so that guy shouldn't be punished either. He pays as much as the other players pay to CCP.

How low the logofski-tactic may be, there is no solution to the problem as CCP can't trace all the connections and check if it fails on the last 2 hops (home network) or a hop somewhere in the middle of the 15 hops someone has to make. Well in fact they can, but then I wouldn't like to see all complaints about lag.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.02.03 14:30:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 03/02/2011 14:40:28

Originally by: Ydyp Ieva

A bad internet connection isn't always the fault of the player in question either...


ofc it is!. Contracting a bad/cheap ISP (get a better one), living in a region with poor network coverage or living in timbuktu are all players faults, sry. The remaining amount of random disconnects we're suffering from times to times are the risk for us all playing internetz spaceships. - this is far better than dudes roaming around in their 10b wtfpwn boats, looking for a good gank and knowing they can strg-q safely everytime when things get hot.

Ydyp Ieva
Caldari
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.02.03 14:52:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 03/02/2011 14:40:28

Originally by: Ydyp Ieva

A bad internet connection isn't always the fault of the player in question either...


ofc it is!. Contracting a bad/cheap ISP (get a better one), living in a region with poor network coverage or living in timbuktu are all players faults, sry. The remaining amount of random disconnects we're suffering from times to times are the risk for us all playing internetz spaceships. - this is far better than dudes roaming around in their 10b wtfpwn boats, looking for a good gank and knowing they can strg-q safely everytime when things get hot.

So you say that a player with a T3 line is in fault when some drunk drives his car up against a cabin where his connection runs through? Taking a known bad ISP is one point, but even the best ISP can have a bad day.

And because of the fully randomness there shouldn't be any ingame consequences for the player suffering from this randomness.

So the next question is in order to decide who gets the favour: what do both parties lose?
- The one that disconnects: hard (or less) earned iskies.
- The one missing a gank: a killmail without any iskvallue.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.02.03 15:05:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 03/02/2011 15:34:50

Originally by: Ydyp Ieva

So you say that a player with a T3 line is in fault when some drunk drives his car up against a cabin where his connection runs through?

moar constructed, uncommon examples pls...

Originally by: Ydyp Ieva
Taking a known bad ISP is one point, but even the best ISP can have a bad day.

yes, its a common risk of playing internetz spaceships. Dont fly ships, which you cant afford to loose. I would prefer this design always over one, which rewards exploiters.

Originally by: Ydyp Ieva
And because of the fully randomness there shouldn't be any ingame consequences for the player suffering from this randomness.

tbh, if you have a standard, not that bad provider, you will hardly have any issues. I suffer random disconnects from times to times too, and even lost a couple of ships due to that. So what?? Its just a rare event when you get an accidental disconnect during a fight or something, its simply not worth mentioning - except for people, who disco on purpose! (which is probably in 99% of all cases)

Originally by: Ydyp Ieva

So the next question is in order to decide who gets the favour: what do both parties lose?
- The one that disconnects: hard (or less) earned iskies.
- The one missing a gank: a killmail without any iskvallue.

the one, who takes the time and efforts to chase the f*cker down and kill him instead of watching an unlockable (cos of invulnerable) faction wtfpwnmobile warping off the gate because of a "disconnect"; or a bubbled logged supercarrier which felt for a well prepared trap and vanishes in space due to the same stupid reason (oh ****, its a trap -> strg+q).

Furthermore, why should the time for farming ISK for ships be worth more than the time of x people taking the efforts of hunting and killing the said dude?? In both cases its time, people invest into the game, I would not differ there at all.

One, who doesnt like loosing ships, should be aware of his internet connection (apart of common, random issues) and where its safe to go under given circumstances and where its not!
Dont fly ships, which you cant afford to loose - considering your poor internet connection ffs!

mchief117
Posted - 2011.02.03 15:40:00 - [24]
 

Pirate tears are delicious

seriously your gate camping, and if the guys in a normal indy or maybe even a transport there is no PVP, just smackdown.

If your really that concerened about your all important kill mail go to low sec find some one else who wants to PVP and shoot at them then your kill mail might be worth something

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.02.03 15:45:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 03/02/2011 15:45:55
Originally by: mchief117
Pirate tears are delicious

seriously your gate camping, and if the guys in a normal indy or maybe even a transport there is no PVP, just smackdown.

If your really that concerened about your all important kill mail go to low sec find some one else who wants to PVP and shoot at them then your kill mail might be worth something


bad troll 1/10.
Its about the game mechanics and their exploitation, not about the fairness of ganks.
Its quite simple, if you jump into a lowsec camp unscouted with your fuggin freighter, you deserved its loss.


 

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