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blankseplocked Game unplayable laggy in the hours leading to DT and straight after it
 
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Pater Sek
Posted - 2011.01.31 09:16:00 - [1]
 

I am having the issue that was previously encountered after the first incursion patch was released. Namely that in the two or so hours leading up to DT the game becomes unplayably laggy (modules hang, black screen for minutes on end when leaving station or jumping systems) and finally disconnects.

Now I previously petitioned this and was told that it was a common issue encountered by several ISP's around the world (I am with Optus in Australia) and that we needed to direct our ISPs to get in touch with CCP to resolve the issue.

The issue did go away after about a month or so after the first patch so I'm assuming this was done.

However, after the latest Incursion release this issue is now back as if it had never gone before. As it stands in the hours 09:00 - 11:00ish EVE time the game is not playable.

My questions are: is this just me this time or are many others also encountering this problem? And is this like the last time, something we need to be taking up with our ISP's?


Legendary Clint
Gallente
Silver Snake Enterprise
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.01.31 12:56:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Legendary Clint on 31/01/2011 13:29:29
Edited by: Legendary Clint on 31/01/2011 13:28:59
Edited by: Legendary Clint on 31/01/2011 13:19:56
I live in the UK and have no problems around downtime with performance.

The reason I have replied is that I used to have performance issues last year during what I would call peak times for internet usage. I would find that my download and upload speeds would drop away resulting in packet loss. This caused my EVE client to lag very badly, and occasionally I got the infamous socket closed issue that everybody posts about. Upon investigation, I discovered that the local UBR (Universal Broadband Router) provided by my cable broadband provider (Virgin Media) for the entire NW3 postcode area was operating well beyond capacity during evenings and weekends, and that I was experiencing 20-30% packet loss due to their traffic calming/shaping software. After a few months of waiting, the UBR was finally upgraded and I have never looked back since Cool

If you want to check for localised issues with packet loss, I used to use Teamspeak 3 to analyse the statistics to a TS server in the US. If you are getting packet loss (especially on the upload), then call your ISP. If all is clear, try a network packet monitoring tool or the tracert command line command to identify the hop that is causing the problem to the CCP servers (IP address in config file). If it is on the first few hops, then call your ISP. If it is on the final few hops, then contact CCP so they can check their infrastructure. If there is no packet loss, then I would still contact your ISP to discuss the issue. Explain as to what you are experiencing and ask them to monitor the situation. Some ISPs do configure their infrastructure in a way that is not friendly for gamers. I cannot remember the specifics but it causes the CCP server to think you have closed your socket(s).

I hope this helps.

Nad Scratcher
Posted - 2011.01.31 13:29:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Nad Scratcher on 31/01/2011 14:18:59
Edited by: Nad Scratcher on 31/01/2011 14:16:26
Edited by: Nad Scratcher on 31/01/2011 13:35:41
I am having the same issue since incursion patch.
I am with optus cable, (Melbourne) I am able to download at full speed from any other site. (3-4MB/s) but during 2 hours before DT and a few hours after. i am getting randomly kicked from game extremely often.

I play arma2 and have no issues with ping. or packet loss during those times in that game on various servers across the world. Eve is the only game i am having major issues with, and only since the incursion patch.

There is a 16 page thread on this issue http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1038603&page=16

Something has changed, whether it be optus or eve, and frankly it ****z me to tears.

It is becoming so i cannot play the game without being booted.

Update.,. i do >ping eveonline.com /t and on average every 10th ping times out.

Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=379ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=380ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=379ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=117
Request timed out.
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=117
Request timed out.
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=387ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=376ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=378ms TTL=117
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=117
Request timed out.
Reply from 87.237.39.196: bytes=32 time=377ms TTL=117

Optus tell me there is no issues been reported. and kindly offered to reset my router.

my ping plotter picture. showing packet loss outside of the optus network. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Nad Scratcher
Posted - 2011.02.01 09:35:00 - [4]
 

8pm on the dot here in australia and getting timed out in game

packet loss started again.
the loss is constant and greatest at

if-1-3.tcore2.NJY-Newark.as6453.net
if-0-0-0.core4.LDN-London.as6453.net

I spent a few un fruitful hours on the phone to optus tech support around 4 am this morning, with no clues from them.

It seems optus themselves are not to blame but a few hops short of eveonline.com itself/

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.01 10:42:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Othran on 01/02/2011 10:49:21
Edited by: Othran on 01/02/2011 10:44:03
Sounds more to me like 8pm is when they change the profile on the traffic shaper to "Peak Time Throttling".

Last I checked ALL Optus accounts (except old legacy ones which have the old limits) are traffic shaped. Naturally your ISP isn't going to be up-front with you about this Wink

Edit - its possible that they didn't change the Eve "ident" on all their profiles.

Edit 2 - as6453 is Tata Comms and I KNOW Optus had issues with them last year. They're providing some of Optus international routing so it is an Optus issue. Tata plan new links with Aussie telecos

Milia Jenius
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2011.02.01 11:06:00 - [6]
 

I am with Optus Australia too (currently in Sydney), and having the same issue as you do. Impossible to even logon and undock, the client simply disconnects at will extremely often.

Pater Sek
Posted - 2011.02.02 06:22:00 - [7]
 

But this issue was fixed (for me anyway, so I'm assuming Optus users in Autralia) when it first appeared after the initial incursion patch.

Now it has returned once the third incursion patch was deployed. So what has changed?

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.02.02 14:20:00 - [8]
 

Same problem.

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2011.02.02 16:28:00 - [9]
 

raise an issue with optus
if you all do it they'll refix the problem they have ...

Pater Sek
Posted - 2011.02.03 06:01:00 - [10]
 

I would raise this as a Optus issue but it appears to be happening after the first and third incursion patch. It didn't just start randomly.

As such, would this be something that needs to be fixed on Optus' end or CCP?

Draza Wolfpup
Muppet Factory
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.02.03 09:58:00 - [11]
 

bah.

the problem as returned for me with a vengence.

whereas before i could play with 1 client and the others would crash. now 1 client crashes either at random, or jumping through gates, or in a fight, etc. its painful especially on roams

this appears to be again around dt (prime time for AU users)

and yes i am with optus

my ping responses appear to be almost the same as the other person has posted and the problem hops are:

if-2-2.tcore1.NJY-Newark.as6453.net [66.198.70.1]
if-1-0.mcore3.L78-London.as6453.net [66.198.70.50]

according to ping plotter

as i write this i have crashed while undocking

so what now? whine to optus? get them to speak to ccp?

i wonder is there is anything different in the optional patch that is causing this? as per the 1st big patch, and the recent patch, i appear to have got this problem when i installed the optional patches. is there anything in the code of the optional patches that may have caused this that might make the packets seem to be a torrent packet or something like that?


Sir Mattsimus
Posted - 2011.02.03 13:56:00 - [12]
 

I too am with Optus, am experiencing similar issues and after running ping plotter have found packet loss on the following hops...

if-2-2.tcore1.NJY-Newark.as6453.net [66.198.70.1]
if-1-0.mcore3.L78-London.as6453.net [66.198.70.50]
if-1-0-0-1656.mse1.LRT-London.as6453.net [195.219.144.34]
if-13-0-0-3.mcore3.LDN-London.as6453.net [195.219.195.21]
if-0-0-0.core4.LDN-London.as6453.net [195.219.195.150]
ix-12-0-0-3045.core4.LDN-London.as6453.net [195.219.67.242]
----------- [87.237.36.248]

It's important to note that while the "Newark" hop had a loss rate of just under 30%, the first "London" hop had a loss rate of over 75% and each hop after that had a loss rate of over 90%, some of which sat at 99%.

I've also noticed that there is message box situated at the EVE login screen which states...

"Please be advised that the global Internet in London is currently experiencing issues that may affect EVE Online other Internet services in the London area."

I googled for about five minutes for any more information on this but came up with nothing.
Could problems in London be effecting Optus users?

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.03 15:40:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Othran on 03/02/2011 15:47:22
Edited by: Othran on 03/02/2011 15:43:45
Originally by: Sir Mattsimus
Could problems in London be effecting Optus users?


No. Edit - well yes it obviously is now, but thats not the root cause. Its specific to Optus not other Aussie telecos.

The current LINX issues started last night. Your problem pre-dates that, plus it starts in the USA, not London.

Pure speculation on my part but I'd suspect that the Optus transit (over Tata's network) to London via Newark is overloaded and they need to pay for some more.

Its something you need to raise with Optus as as6453 is Tata, who are one of Optus' upstream suppliers.

Edit2 - if you ever want to check what's going on in London then click LINX combined bit rate. That'll show you the majority of the internet traffic flowing through the UK, CCP are hosted at packetexchange IIRC which isn't part of LINX but does feed into the Brocade LAN (also IIRC) at LINX. Brocade LAN hasn't been great in the last few months, that's for sure Sad

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.02.03 16:01:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Othran
Edited by: Othran on 03/02/2011 15:47:22
Edited by: Othran on 03/02/2011 15:43:45
Originally by: Sir Mattsimus
Could problems in London be effecting Optus users?


No. Edit - well yes it obviously is now, but thats not the root cause. Its specific to Optus not other Aussie telecos.

The current LINX issues started last night. Your problem pre-dates that, plus it starts in the USA, not London.

Pure speculation on my part but I'd suspect that the Optus transit (over Tata's network) to London via Newark is overloaded and they need to pay for some more.

Its something you need to raise with Optus as as6453 is Tata, who are one of Optus' upstream suppliers.

Edit2 - if you ever want to check what's going on in London then click LINX combined bit rate. That'll show you the majority of the internet traffic flowing through the UK, CCP are hosted at packetexchange IIRC which isn't part of LINX but does feed into the Brocade LAN (also IIRC) at LINX. Brocade LAN hasn't been great in the last few months, that's for sure Sad

Gotta be either optus or tata shaping traffic and CCP's 'essential' bitcode change being flagged as P2P and thus being dropped as non-essential.

Folikar
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.02.03 21:49:00 - [15]
 

This is making eve unplayable. I was on just after dt and would drop out every few minutes. I'm an optus customer in Sydney and almost died twice as I was in a fleet and fell behind due to the disconnects. I've contacted Optus, is there anything else I can do?

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.04 07:51:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Infinity Ziona

Gotta be either optus or tata shaping traffic and CCP's 'essential' bitcode change being flagged as P2P and thus being dropped as non-essential.


Possibly although Optus DID eventually talk to CCP in January and DID fix that.

Its entirely possible some f*ckwit at Optus/Tata has reverted the change I guess.

Draza Wolfpup
Muppet Factory
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.02.04 10:40:00 - [17]
 

sadly, problem is worse than ever. its unplayable with crashes every say 5 minutes after 8pm (au time)

so shaping is switched on somewhere along the hops to the eve servers (which i assume are in london docklands) for aussie peak time and dropping eve packets or making them low priority




Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.04 11:37:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Draza Wolfpup
sadly, problem is worse than ever. its unplayable with crashes every say 5 minutes after 8pm (au time)

so shaping is switched on somewhere along the hops to the eve servers (which i assume are in london docklands) for aussie peak time and dropping eve packets or making them low priority



It might be that, it might not. The fact it apparently happens same time every night makes me suspect that's when their* traffic shapers switch to the "peak time" profile.

It doesn't appear to be happening to people on other Aussie ISPs and Optus announced a load of new "usage limits" a couple of months ago which there's NO WAY** they can deliver on without heavy peak-time shaping.

*Optus/Tata's shapers
**many of the deals they offer aren't affordable in London where the transit Mbps/month costs are significantly lower than Australia.

Draza Wolfpup
Muppet Factory
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.02.04 11:45:00 - [19]
 

what was interesting i guess is that during dt, the 2 apparent problem hops:

if-2-2.tcore1.NJY-Newark.as6453.net [66.198.70.1]
if-1-0.mcore3.L78-London.as6453.net [66.198.70.50]

had no packet loss during transit according to ping plotter although the server being down which meant the destination was unreachable.
when the server was back up the packet loss went back up to 80 and then 100% without my client running (ie with pingplotter running in the background). i wonder if that means anything.

anyways, yep unplayable, crashing all the time, etc, here in Australia using optus broadband


Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.04 12:02:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Draza Wolfpup
what was interesting i guess is that during dt, the 2 apparent problem hops:

if-2-2.tcore1.NJY-Newark.as6453.net [66.198.70.1]
if-1-0.mcore3.L78-London.as6453.net [66.198.70.50]

had no packet loss during transit according to ping plotter although the server being down which meant the destination was unreachable.
when the server was back up the packet loss went back up to 80 and then 100% without my client running (ie with pingplotter running in the background). i wonder if that means anything.

anyways, yep unplayable, crashing all the time, etc, here in Australia using optus broadband




The thing is that if it WAS eve being misidentified by a traffic shaper then it shouldn't be showing up as ICMP (ping) packet loss.

When a router that normally responds to ICMP fine suddenly stops replying/ping times increase drastically then 99% of the time its under extremely heavy load.

There are some utilities (mainly Linux though) that will allow you to use TCP to ping a remote host. If a router wasn't replying reliably to ICMP/UDP pings and WAS replying reliably to TCP pings then it'd indicate a heavily loaded router. The same unreliability over TCP could indicate an overloaded link.

Could be any number of things TBH, only Optus/Tata know though.

dark'illuminati
Amarr
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2011.02.04 23:02:00 - [21]
 

Same Issue from New Zealand. Telstra Clear ISP

Draza Wolfpup
Muppet Factory
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2011.02.06 04:41:00 - [22]
 

hello

confirmed.

well after having a closer look this i can confirm that at just on 8pm Australian Eastern Standard time users of optus cable get booted out of eve at random every few minutes or so until 1am Australian Eastern Standard time. So 2 hours before and 2.5 hours after dt with the game being unplayable.

this is probably due to traffic shaping/eve packets appear to be torrents/eve packets become low prioity, either by optus or tata and the problem hops appear to be:

if-2-2.tcore1.NJY-Newark.as6453.net [66.198.70.1]
if-1-0.mcore3.L78-London.as6453.net [66.198.70.50]

so i ask CCP again, do we contact Optus again? can this be initiated by CCP, can they speak to optus?, etc, etc
Is it annoying for CCP that a major telco has identified your game as torrent and/or low priority packets, and begin to throttle it?

Sir Mattsimus
Posted - 2011.02.13 09:28:00 - [23]
 

Soooo.... it's awfully quiet in here.... Is this resolved for anyone because it's still a problem for me. Crying or Very sad

Steelrattty
Posted - 2011.02.20 13:04:00 - [24]
 

I am having the exact same problem as everyone else in this thread, massive packet loss beginning at 8pm GMT+10.

Petitioned and was told it was my ISP (Optus) very helpful CCP. When hundreds of people are having the same problem i think it is your responsibility to get it fixed. Contact Optus and sort it out, this is not some small issue.. a lot of people are affected. Considering quitting since 8pm is my playing time.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.20 13:26:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Steelrattty
I am having the exact same problem as everyone else in this thread, massive packet loss beginning at 8pm GMT+10.

Petitioned and was told it was my ISP (Optus) very helpful CCP. When hundreds of people are having the same problem i think it is your responsibility to get it fixed. Contact Optus and sort it out, this is not some small issue.. a lot of people are affected. Considering quitting since 8pm is my playing time.


They did contact Optus (after a hell of a lot of messing about from Optus). It did get fixed. Optus have broken it again. CCP haven't changed anything in the netcode since it was first "fixed" by Optus.

What part of "its YOUR ISPs problem" is confusing you?

I have some sympathy for you but its not CCPs problem. Its down to Optus/Tata. You are their customer, CCP isn't so if Optus aren't interested then change ISP. Or quit.

There are loads of crappy ISPs on the planet (like yours). Its not the responsibility of a Euro games company to educate the crappy ISPs.

Steelrattty
Posted - 2011.02.20 13:33:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Steelrattty
I am having the exact same problem as everyone else in this thread, massive packet loss beginning at 8pm GMT+10.

Petitioned and was told it was my ISP (Optus) very helpful CCP. When hundreds of people are having the same problem i think it is your responsibility to get it fixed. Contact Optus and sort it out, this is not some small issue.. a lot of people are affected. Considering quitting since 8pm is my playing time.


They did contact Optus (after a hell of a lot of messing about from Optus). It did get fixed. Optus have broken it again. CCP haven't changed anything in the netcode since it was first "fixed" by Optus.

What part of "its YOUR ISPs problem" is confusing you?

I have some sympathy for you but its not CCPs problem. Its down to Optus/Tata. You are their customer, CCP isn't so if Optus aren't interested then change ISP. Or quit.

There are loads of crappy ISPs on the planet (like yours). Its not the responsibility of a Euro games company to educate the crappy ISPs.


"They did contact Optus (after a hell of a lot of messing about from Optus). It did get fixed. Optus have broken it again." So get it fixed again, obviously complaints from customers are not doing ****.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.20 13:57:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Othran on 20/02/2011 13:58:01
Edited by: Othran on 20/02/2011 13:57:20
Originally by: Steelrattty

"They did contact Optus (after a hell of a lot of messing about from Optus). It did get fixed. Optus have broken it again." So get it fixed again, obviously complaints from customers are not doing ****.


You are the Optus customer. If they can't be bothered listening to you then why are they going to listen to a random internet company?

The last time took a load of complaints to whatever your telecoms regulator is and/or high-level complaints at Optus.

I bet you haven't even registered a formal complaint with Optus have you?

Get your ISP to sort it or quit. Those are your options. Whining here will do nothing now.

Maxeyra
Posted - 2011.02.23 05:06:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Draza Wolfpup
hello

confirmed.

well after having a closer look this i can confirm that at just on 8pm Australian Eastern Standard time users of optus cable get booted out of eve at random every few minutes or so until 1am Australian Eastern Standard time. So 2 hours before and 2.5 hours after dt with the game being unplayable.

this is probably due to traffic shaping/eve packets appear to be torrents/eve packets become low prioity, either by optus or tata and the problem hops appear to be:

if-2-2.tcore1.NJY-Newark.as6453.net [66.198.70.1]
if-1-0.mcore3.L78-London.as6453.net [66.198.70.50]

so i ask CCP again, do we contact Optus again? can this be initiated by CCP, can they speak to optus?, etc, etc
Is it annoying for CCP that a major telco has identified your game as torrent and/or low priority packets, and begin to throttle it?



same question, is this easily fixed by optus if we complain?

Rokaan
Dark Nebula Academy
O X I D E
Posted - 2011.02.23 05:51:00 - [29]
 

Quiet lol at the concept of Oz ISP's listening to their customers about anything.

Louder lol at the concept of just switching to another ISP.. "Yur not frm roawnd here, ar ye bouy?" Wink

That aside, I'm in Vic and on "Neighbourhood Cable", I'm not sure who they buy their bandwidth from, probably Hell$tra, but I often get kicked or lagged to hell on the dot of peak/offpeak cutover, restarting the client, not just logging back in, usually fixes it.

Problems like this might well become more common "globally" in the future.

Good luck with it everyone.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.24 14:41:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Maxeyra
Originally by: Draza Wolfpup
hello

confirmed.

well after having a closer look this i can confirm that at just on 8pm Australian Eastern Standard time users of optus cable get booted out of eve at random every few minutes or so until 1am Australian Eastern Standard time. So 2 hours before and 2.5 hours after dt with the game being unplayable.

this is probably due to traffic shaping/eve packets appear to be torrents/eve packets become low prioity, either by optus or tata and the problem hops appear to be:

if-2-2.tcore1.NJY-Newark.as6453.net [66.198.70.1]
if-1-0.mcore3.L78-London.as6453.net [66.198.70.50]

so i ask CCP again, do we contact Optus again? can this be initiated by CCP, can they speak to optus?, etc, etc
Is it annoying for CCP that a major telco has identified your game as torrent and/or low priority packets, and begin to throttle it?



same question, is this easily fixed by optus if we complain?


Yes provided the right network admin gets told about it. I can't remember who escalated it to high-level complaints last time, some Pandemic Legion guy IIRC. Have a hunt through this forum using eve-search.com and see if you can find the thread.


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