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blankseplocked [proposal] anti gank modification to courier contracts
 
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Corian Teranos
Caldari
Joint Espionage and Defence Industries
Preatoriani
Posted - 2011.01.29 03:30:00 - [1]
 

it is inevitable that a courier will sometimes get ganked and have to pay out a collateral to the contractor. my proposal will cut down on trap contract eg contracts where the person who posted the contract conspires to kill the freighter carrying his own equiptment.

the new rule is a simple fault detection system.
if the courier's ship is destroyed by any character on the contractors account (this includes other accounts registered on the same credit card), any member of the contractors corperation, or any member of the contractor's alliance. the contractor will forfit all fees and items and concord will transfer both the collateral and the contract reward to the courier as reimbursement for a criminal act.


it is basicly the same as torching someone's car and than trying to sue them when you burn your hands. noone would get compensated for losses that they were directly responsable for

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.01.29 03:34:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/01/2011 03:35:09
Originally by: Corian Teranos


it is basicly the same as torching someone's car and than trying to sue them when you burn your hands. noone would get compensated for losses that they were directly responsable for


Welcome to the sandbox!

So much did you lose?

Corian Teranos
Caldari
Joint Espionage and Defence Industries
Preatoriani
Posted - 2011.01.29 03:37:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Corian Teranos on 29/01/2011 03:43:23
Edited by: Corian Teranos on 29/01/2011 03:41:51
to be honest i fly a crane and have never lost a currior i just saw a exploit and wanted to have somthing implimented (iactually make a habbit of ripping off obvious trap contracts :)


dont get me wrong piracy is a crucial part of the game and you are free to kill random indys. this is just to take care of the DÜSH's that intentionally kill their curriors in high sec.

after all a courier cannot see the package contents and therefore can not know wether or not the 500mil is a officer module or a few tritanium stacked to be about the same size as one.

in a sense it is the same as the bounty exploit where you jump in a implant free clone and use your alt to pod yourself.

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.01.29 03:55:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/01/2011 04:06:19
Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/01/2011 04:05:35
Edited by: Aessoroz on 29/01/2011 04:05:29

How is it a exploit to kill the courier? What if he called me a name and he coincidentally was carrying the package at the same time as when he ticked me off?

I honestly do not see the justification in "fixing" this. One can see the contents of the contract once expected and one can take counter measures if one indeed feels it is fishy, such as waiting a few hours to run it. Another option is using alts to accept contracts and contracting packages to the hauler to deliver and then contracting it back to the alt to complete the contract.

You can also make it backfire hilariously on the gankers by using alts to create an identical route courier package and putting in a mix of items that look like the real package(the same quantities if LOL cheap or just one of each or something) and moving that package first. (Assuming it was a industrial sized package as to not lose much isk on them) :P

Goose99
Posted - 2011.01.29 04:56:00 - [5]
 

Supported. Either this, or make npc fill courier contracts after a while. Legit contracts anywhere outside of highsec aren't getting filled, especially if it pays well. I don't see why broken mechanics should remain unfixed purely to benefit a small group of scammers. If you want to appease them, give them some free kms or isk or something. Why do the rest of us have to play a broken game for their sake? Rolling Eyes

Centri Sixx
Posted - 2011.01.29 05:23:00 - [6]
 

Aessors, the problem is that there is zero risk. The gank contractor can set whatever price he likes, often with them being low enough to be a pittance to lose.

The way to cut down on this is to force the reward to be a much higher percentage base of collateral, and make fees reflect collateral. If you put 100 million as collateral, you should stand to "lose" at least 10 million if the contract is successful. Fees also should increase to discourage superhigh collateral accounts: if you are asking a billion isk collateral, you should be paying a chunk of that just to set the order up.

This also is good for general quality of life. I can make far more money just shuttling npc goods from station to station with less risk than accepting any public contract.

Trying to make lowsec and null contracts doable would just be impossible though. If you want them to happen, you need as an alliance to blue any neut industrial, and even then pirates would be a pain.

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.01.29 05:29:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Centri Sixx
Aessors, the problem is that there is zero risk. The gank contractor can set whatever price he likes, often with them being low enough to be a pittance to lose.

The way to cut down on this is to force the reward to be a much higher percentage base of collateral, and make fees reflect collateral. If you put 100 million as collateral, you should stand to "lose" at least 10 million if the contract is successful. Fees also should increase to discourage superhigh collateral accounts: if you are asking a billion isk collateral, you should be paying a chunk of that just to set the order up.

This also is good for general quality of life. I can make far more money just shuttling npc goods from station to station with less risk than accepting any public contract.

Trying to make lowsec and null contracts doable would just be impossible though. If you want them to happen, you need as an alliance to blue any neut industrial, and even then pirates would be a pain.


Your reasoning is far better than the OP's and the solution much better.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2011.01.29 05:45:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Drake Draconis on 29/01/2011 05:47:44
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 29/01/2011 05:46:39
Perhaps a reversal of the mechanic.

Collateral is only paid out if the contract fails... not when its paid up front.

The only difference here is the pilot is given motivation to succeed as opposed to being keen not to take it up.

Mentality wise.


I hate the damn things simply because the stupid collateral is insanely overkill and ridiculously stupid.

As a result my freighters get tons of dust on them.

I'd be more likely to run those shipments if i didn't need to worry about footing the bill upfront for a measly few hundred K isk with 1 bil collateral (F### you people seriously) for a few jumps.


As for the exploitation mechanic... its not as bad as it sounds.

Keep in mind while you have the contract... they have to track your location... you could easily mask your position in any number of ways... grab the box when owners on.. but log off until he's gone.

Get scouts to help.... etc.

Many tactics... a fix is unnecessary in this case.... but reversing the system in such a way where you have better odds of success and less at being ganked out of a ton of money... I can deal with that.

PS: Quick question (perhaps suggestion) can the package be passed from hand to hand to hand?
The collateral remains in the hands of the contract holder but no one said the package had to stay in the same owners hands. Would add a whole new plethora of piracy and theft to the game... but at the same time it would neatly dodge the gank exploit mechanic as well.YARRRR!!YARRRR!!YARRRR!!

I mean its no different than a PVE Objective item right? Item can be sold... traded... and all you have to do is have it on hand to complete the contract much like a mission... amirite?

That One Guy
Posted - 2011.01.29 08:36:00 - [9]
 

not supported.

If you take a courier mission you have to be ready for the consequences! Like getting shot!

Goose99
Posted - 2011.01.29 17:58:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: That One Guy
not supported.

If you take a courier mission you have to be ready for the consequences! Like getting shot!


Exactly, and so no one take those risks. Your courier contracts for anything outside highsec won't get filled if payment is too low, if payment is high, they think it's a scam. Your non-highsec courier contracts don't get filled, period. It's like how yerr-pirates want more ganking pve fit carebears in lowsec by making it easier. This is a mmo, not sigleplayer. You don't get players to act like rats. All you end up is abandoned aspects of game.Rolling Eyes

Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.29 18:18:00 - [11]
 

It happens you just need to be prepared for it or start to outsmart them. Like accept the contract with an alt and have another character transport the contract.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.01.29 18:55:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Manalapan
It happens you just need to be prepared for it or start to outsmart them. Like accept the contract with an alt and have another character transport the contract.


The problem is, why bother? It doesn't actually hurt the people wanting to run courier contracts, there's lots of other more profitable things to do. It hurts people who wants things moved.

Business Ethics
Posted - 2011.01.29 19:03:00 - [13]
 

As a high-volume shipper I can't support any of the suggested changes in this thread. Some of them will actually hurt the public shipping industry.

not supported

Lekla en Chasteaux
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.29 19:09:00 - [14]
 

I support this, not because I think Eve shouldn't be a harsh world, or because I'm a carebear who wants risk to be lowered, or anything of the sort. I would like to see this because, as it stands now, using courier contracts for the purpose that it's used for is more of an exploit than a scam (bar a few cases like delivering out to 0.0 to stations that you can't dock at, those are reasonable scams). Courier contracts, just like everything else in a game, need to have a legitimate use and function, and as they are now, they don't.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.29 19:37:00 - [15]
 


Against. This proposal is silly.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.01.29 22:24:00 - [16]
 

Its not exactly hard to scout, accept the courier on a disposable alt and trade package to the hauler, or simply not accept couriers to areas you arent familiar with.

Not supported.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2011.01.29 22:26:00 - [17]
 

For people worried about gank-bait contracts:
  • Find high-paying courier contracts in high sec
  • Accept with your main
  • Haul the package with an NPC corp alt
  • ???
  • Profit!

Also, as I've issued nearly 2500 courier contracts over the last year, with only a single failure, I tend to disagree with claims that these have no legitimate use.

For people complaining about low payouts - remember who your competitors are:
  • Red Frog Freight, who accept any highsec contract up to 1bn isk collateral and 860k m^3, in return for a fee of 500k + 350k per jump
  • People who are making the journey anyway, who happen to have spare capacity, and will accept any contract, no matter how small the payout (especially for small loads moved between the major hubs)

Finally, for the doubters, I know of at least one corp specialising in low-sec logistics - it can be done, but of course it requires more effort than highsec AFK hauling.

Pretty much every purported issue raised by anyone in this thread is baseless, and don't even get me started on some of the proposed 'fixes'.

nugget906
Posted - 2011.01.29 23:17:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: nugget906 on 29/01/2011 23:17:35
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
For people worried about gank-bait contracts:
  • Find high-paying courier contracts in high sec
  • Accept with your main
  • Haul the package with an NPC corp alt
  • ???
  • Profit!

Also, as I've issued nearly 2500 courier contracts over the last year, with only a single failure, I tend to disagree with claims that these have no legitimate use.

For people complaining about low payouts - remember who your competitors are:
  • Red Frog Freight, who accept any highsec contract up to 1bn isk collateral and 860k m^3, in return for a fee of 500k + 350k per jump
  • People who are making the journey anyway, who happen to have spare capacity, and will accept any contract, no matter how small the payout (especially for small loads moved between the major hubs)

Finally, for the doubters, I know of at least one corp specialising in low-sec logistics - it can be done, but of course it requires more effort than highsec AFK hauling.

Pretty much every purported issue raised by anyone in this thread is baseless, and don't even get me started on some of the proposed 'fixes'.


You missed the entire thread. Go read it.

I likegirls
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.30 04:09:00 - [19]
 

I am not going to read all of the replies to this, because they are probably all bashing your stupid idea.

I am going to bash it more.

Stupid idea.


 

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