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Nejamai
Posted - 2011.01.25 03:20:00 - [1]
 

Yea i wanted this for a long time makes it nicer also the game, a bit like 3000AD ... a real crew on your ship, engineers, marines, officers, commanders, military, doctors, what ever all that is needed to run a real ship, you can hire them on stations and 1 has more options than the other and also you need the correct skills for that to get a better crew on your ship ... i think that's wayyyyy cooler and wayyyy better than just 1 person YOU as the only all managing crew, it gives an extra dimension to the game also, also what should be great is boarding ships to board a enemies ship you don't have to be able to fly them your specialty crew can do that for you for just a moment till you are at the station and dock, all those things would be great, hahah also what would be cool is the resources needed like food and water .... just like a station

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.25 03:25:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Selinate on 25/01/2011 23:04:13
if I can sexually harass my Yeoman, just like I do in Mass Effect 2, then I fully support you for this reason alone.

Other than that, crews are so outdated :P

Saju Somtaaw
Kagan-Kincaid Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.25 04:12:00 - [3]
 

Read the Chronicles, every ship but frigs has a crew, but life is so cheap in New Eden they're ignored with game mechanics.

To make it easier on you, this capsule proves we still have crews All These Lives Fit to Ruin

Maxx Overseer
Gallente
Royal Advanced Industries
Imperial Crimson Legion
Posted - 2011.01.25 04:19:00 - [4]
 

I was thinking about this same thing, but have where you can plan a normal, not podder character. You will have different skills you can learn and you can pilot ships but in a different way. You don't get all the bennies. But on other stuff you can get bennies like some of the markets.

Nejamai
Posted - 2011.01.25 04:37:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Nejamai on 25/01/2011 04:40:19
Edited by: Nejamai on 25/01/2011 04:39:46
nah its not outdated, its a nice option i mean it does not mean you have to micromanage the ship there you have the crew for :) to make it even more nicer is to have a real bridge, i mean they are busy with DUST now and also there you have a bridge on the command ship, so why not for us in eve, and some monitors like in DUST to see what we see now just from the captains chair ... damn than it would even be nicer but i think that CCP is thinking more about the $$$$$ however i do think they are going to implement more things like this because of DUST.
i mean soon we are able to walk in the space stations and interact with each other that's already a step closer ...

Maxx Overseer
Gallente
Royal Advanced Industries
Imperial Crimson Legion
Posted - 2011.01.25 04:52:00 - [6]
 

I played STO for little while, got bored because in 3 1/2 months I was a Vice and ran out of things to do. Well it was some nice features like walking around your ship and walking on station plus planet side, I also like some of how you can control your ship little. But I don't think that they thought out their plan, I mean I watch Star Trek all my life and I don't member that many Vice Ads walking around.

So I was happy to come back to Eve. more to do plus if someone gets in your way or ****es on you you can pop them. (yes you can). But I know CCP has lots of stuff coming, but I have things I can do before they get here.

So let CCP do their job, for they do listen to us, (and btw STO didn't really listen to it's players too much)

Spirulina Laxissima
Minmatar
TotalControl Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.25 16:20:00 - [7]
 

Supported!
Relevant links: Ships Crews and (IMHO) Freed Slaves

Joshawu Minden
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.25 16:22:00 - [8]
 

@Spiru: Slaves forced to crew my ships? I like the way you think!

Hydraulic Jack
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.25 16:34:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Selinate
if I can sexually harass my Yeoman, just like I do in Mass Effect 2, then I fully support you for this reason alone.


Same here!ugh

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2011.01.25 17:48:00 - [10]
 

Crews should get better at their jobs the longer they do them. Then die when the ship dies. If I have a ship that survives a lot of confrontations, it should be better than a ship I just replaced.

Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.01.25 18:14:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Bagehi
Crews should get better at their jobs the longer they do them. Then die when the ship dies. If I have a ship that survives a lot of confrontations, it should be better than a ship I just replaced.



Absolutely. This is a fantastic mechanic to add some weight to PvP activities. It will discourage (some) people from flagrantly throwing away their ships whilst still providing a benefit from actually engaging in legitimate PvP activities.

Note; I don't think ships crews should get anything more than a basic effectiveness boost from NPC interactions... it should be limited to PvP and even then should be skewed in favor of attacking ships that fight back. This means ganking hulks, rookie cruisers and freighters won't be of much 'value' but hitting a roaming HAC gang would result in a significant boost.

Ultimately I wouldn't want to see crews making the ship more than 10% effective in any particular direction so as to avoid solo pwnmobiles.

Also crews should not transfer with the hull - if you contract or sell the ship, you don't get the crew with it. This would simulate how the crew would learn to work well together (or not!) after becoming more experienced. Sell the ship, you split up the crew.

Hagi Jes
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.25 22:43:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Hagi Jes on 25/01/2011 22:43:30
The All These Lives are Fit to Ruin chronicle is pretty deep, having crew members would be pretty deep
+1 in general, +2 if you can have erotic dancers as crew members, +3 if you can have both stated and you can change the name of the crew members & modify them

Bunyip
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.01.25 22:56:00 - [13]
 

I like this idea, and have ever since I started the game. It was one of the things I talked to CCP about during my term on the CSM, but they're afraid to give ships any more bonuses (no matter how slight) after Rigs.

My idea consists of an expansion to both ships and POSes using PI. I originally wanted to remove all trade goods from the market with this idea, and it still may happen that way, but I don't want to elevate the proposal to unmanageable levels at this time.

A basic write-up of my idea is here. I will continually update the linked document as time and creativity allow.

For now, though, supported (and please edit your original post and click support if you do support this measure).

Mace X5
Posted - 2011.01.25 23:10:00 - [14]
 

We are immortal posthumans, starship crews are little better than cattle compared to us.

So, bad idea imho. Spaceships have enough bonuses as is without introducing yet more hard to balance stuff.


For all other rp purposes: ships larger than frigates still have a crew, so you can pretend to interact with them all you want.


/not supported

GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.25 23:27:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: GeeShizzle MacCloud on 25/01/2011 23:30:43
Originally by: Bunyip
I like this idea, and have ever since I started the game. It was one of the things I talked to CCP about during my term on the CSM, but they're afraid to give ships any more bonuses (no matter how slight) after Rigs.

My idea consists of an expansion to both ships and POSes using PI. I originally wanted to remove all trade goods from the market with this idea, and it still may happen that way, but I don't want to elevate the proposal to unmanageable levels at this time.

A basic write-up of my idea is here. I will continually update the linked document as time and creativity allow.

For now, though, supported (and please edit your original post and click support if you do support this measure).


very much like these ideas.. tho i think ccp sees that itd add soo much complexity and balancing issues. its a balancing minefield im afraid to say.

but as an academic discussion there's 1 thing id love to add for u to consider including. It would be for the crews to be consisting of 'trained' personnel for an added bonus.

and the trained personnel to be an item swapped for an equal amount of normal crews + faction LP in an LP store.

you can add slight bonuses to ships dependent on the race/corp LP store the crew are from.
one example would be a RR amount bonus for ships fitted with Sisters of Eve crews.

would also mean there's another income avenue for mission runners and an incentive for good mission runners corps to be linked to null sec alliances, helping hi-sec newer players network with null sec players.

i do understand there'd be another balance issue with LP amount per say 5000 crew and amount of crew per ship type. amount of crew should be directly proportional to a ships average cost.

:)

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.01.26 00:28:00 - [16]
 

Just so you know, ship crews have already been raised and while CCP isn't opposed to the idea per se, crews would effectively technically be the equivalent of an extra "row" of slots to be filled like mid slots, low slots, rigs, etc.. No matter how fun they may be, they prefer balancing the existing ships to adding even more complexity.

You'll find more information about CCP's thoughts on this matter in the CSM 3 minutes.

Cassus Temon
Aliastra

Posted - 2011.01.26 02:33:00 - [17]
 

I'll have to read that. ..an extra row of slots huh?
lol ..that is so sad. lol

I wish you were joking; but for now, I'll assume you're not. Hopefully, it's just a very fuzzy notion at this time; and will see some work in the near future.

Realistically: Chronicles indicate that most capsuleer vessels; have no more than a smalll crew complement. A few engineers, and technician's; and nothing more. The rest of a Capsuleers ship, is controlled by automated systems; which is the real reason why the technicians and engineers are there. I like this idea, and consider it the best option available; though, I suppose it entirely depends on the capsuleer.

If you ask me, my ships are automated, without a single living crew member; and if something needs fixing, I'll get out of my capsule, and do it myself.

I will support the idea of basic crews, filling a handful of positions though; and see it as potentially valuable to game dynamics, while being entirely optional. So you could fly your ship, by yourself, and sacrifice crew benefits; or you could handpick a crew, to increase the overall effectiveness of your ships. These would transfer ship to ship; or even be decommisioned, or left behind. Optionally, they could stay on station, or be temporarily hired for a position; on a contract basis, for a single term. There's a lot of possibilites there; and I imagine if CCP said they would, then they are doing. Seems to me, that pieces of information I've heard, read, or looked at; might indicate this is the case anyway, with some degree of planning already done.

I just don't want them to be lifeless, if they are there; though, I don't have too much fear of that. Be nice to sit in a station bar; and watch the crew have a bit of fun.

Mace X5
Posted - 2011.01.26 03:08:00 - [18]
 

The thing is crew wouldnt be optional for pvp if any sort of boni would apply.

just another thing you had to have like heat and rigs.


making them expensive wouldnt make sense from a lore perspective, so they'd be cheap and everyone would use them.

again: there's already enough to balance as it is without adding extra stuff.


and if they wouldnt give some kind of boni what would be the point at all?

Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.01.26 09:26:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Cassus Temon
I'll have to read that. ..an extra row of slots huh?
lol ..that is so sad. lol

I wish you were joking; but for now, I'll assume you're not. Hopefully, it's just a very fuzzy notion at this time; and will see some work in the near future.

Realistically: Chronicles indicate that most capsuleer vessels; have no more than a smalll crew complement. A few engineers, and technician's; and nothing more. The rest of a Capsuleers ship, is controlled by automated systems; which is the real reason why the technicians and engineers are there. I like this idea, and consider it the best option available; though, I suppose it entirely depends on the capsuleer.

If you ask me, my ships are automated, without a single living crew member; and if something needs fixing, I'll get out of my capsule, and do it myself.

I will support the idea of basic crews, filling a handful of positions though; and see it as potentially valuable to game dynamics, while being entirely optional. So you could fly your ship, by yourself, and sacrifice crew benefits; or you could handpick a crew, to increase the overall effectiveness of your ships. These would transfer ship to ship; or even be decommisioned, or left behind. Optionally, they could stay on station, or be temporarily hired for a position; on a contract basis, for a single term. There's a lot of possibilites there; and I imagine if CCP said they would, then they are doing. Seems to me, that pieces of information I've heard, read, or looked at; might indicate this is the case anyway, with some degree of planning already done.

I just don't want them to be lifeless, if they are there; though, I don't have too much fear of that. Be nice to sit in a station bar; and watch the crew have a bit of fun.


Yeah, if they removed all low slots from ships and added identical "armor repair engineer" crew you can get on board, you'd get the identical result.
The difference is a RP one. It's a significant one though, I agree...

Here's the gist of the CSM 3 minutes:
Originally by: "June 2009 CSM-CCP meeting minutes"

While CCP likes the concept, the crews, according to the CSM's description, would basically serve as extra modules, which aren't very compelling.
In addition they don't want NPCs to become more valuable to flying your ships than skills or player created items such as rigs and modules.
CCP went over this concept when designing subsystems (apparently subsystems started their existence as “crews”). However they concluded crews wouldn't be beneficial from a game design point of view.
The CSM argued it could be used as a “reward” for ships that go regularly into battle, which CCP said would only lead to people AFK-ing to obtain the benefits.
In summary, CCP is unclear as to what role this feature would fill.
As long there's no game play reason, CCP will thus not add another item that makes ship
balancing more of a nightmare than it already is.


Gerrick Palivorn
Posted - 2011.01.26 15:32:00 - [20]
 

Crews imo is a good idea and can add so much more complexity, it would be amazing, but balancing will be a pain.

One thing that I would like to see as DUST gets closer, is the option to deploy teams onto ships to nuetralize the pod pilot. The idea would support true piracy, pirates take capture a ship and effectively disable it while DUST marines storm the ship and kill the pilot. Right now piracy involves the spray and pray method, shoot to kill and hope something good drops, while the DUST option would allow for complete takeover of the ship.

Capturing ships should be an option, supported in this aspect.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.01.26 17:14:00 - [21]
 

Crews are a stupid idea. It's equally stupid that CCP decided to put this lore in supporting their existence on a pod piloted ship in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned my ships are un-crewed. why the hell would I want a clumsy assed human bumbling about my warship needing to be fed and changed and having their poop disposed of when I have nanonics, drones and waldoes to use.

My assumption is that the reason pod ships have windows and the various indicators of a crewed ship is because the designs are retrofitted versions of standard crewed ships.

This is also part of why Tech III ships are so much more powerful than their older counterparts they are built with a pod pilots in mind from inception so aren't bound by the needs that a human crew would have for space and habitat.


GeeShizzle MacCloud
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.26 17:28:00 - [22]
 

how very un-gallente of you!

Solaris Avanger
Posted - 2011.01.26 22:57:00 - [23]
 

i dont agree the idea how can i ship with wasted room for bed command bridge corridors bathroom and all necesary stuff for a crew be stronger than a ship who use all this spacev to install rigs computer and more module????

thhis is a bad idea if this go trough rig should not be an option foo these ''human'' ship

-1

Nora Skuld
Posted - 2011.01.27 05:49:00 - [24]
 

Human beings will go from commodities to modules?

Warhammer 40k called, he wants his grimdark back. Rolling Eyes

No seriously, I'd rather completely ignore this aspect of the fluff.

But a game where you got to manage a spaceship and its crew? I'd like that. But there's no place in EVE for this.

Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.01.27 15:02:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Ogogov on 27/01/2011 15:03:29
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Cassus Temon
I'll have to read that. ..an extra row of slots huh?
Yeah, if they removed all low slots from ships and added identical "armor repair engineer" crew you can get on board, you'd get the identical result.
The difference is a RP one. It's a significant one though, I agree...

Here's the gist of the CSM 3 minutes:
Originally by: "June 2009 CSM-CCP meeting minutes"

While CCP likes the concept, the crews, according to the CSM's description, would basically serve as extra modules, which aren't very compelling.
In addition they don't want NPCs to become more valuable to flying your ships than skills or player created items such as rigs and modules.
CCP went over this concept when designing subsystems (apparently subsystems started their existence as “crews”). However they concluded crews wouldn't be beneficial from a game design point of view.
The CSM argued it could be used as a “reward” for ships that go regularly into battle, which CCP said would only lead to people AFK-ing to obtain the benefits.
In summary, CCP is unclear as to what role this feature would fill.
As long there's no game play reason, CCP will thus not add another item that makes ship
balancing more of a nightmare than it already is.





Ship balancing is a nightmare because there appears to be no rhyme or reason to who tackles the task of curating game balance. It needs a permanent team of dare I say it, specialists (hardcore D&D statisticians or something scary like that), who are accountable - or at least should thoroughly explain themselves on issues they tackle - to the playerbase/CSM.

I Hate the module implementation of crews, it's a horrible idea.

I would much prefer for crew experience to be based somewhat off something like the standings system where certain actions would introduce modifiers for your ship. This wouldn't add server load as it would simply be an additional calculation performed off a killmail - yes it would require more robust killmail generation but that's no bad thing, either.

This allows you to control how quickly your crew becomes more experienced based on the ship type - frigates would level up fairly fast, whereas capitals would have to see huge amounts of combat and usage to become experienced.

To reiterate - Killing NPC ships would not result in an experience modifier This completely eliminates concerns about 'elite afk dominixes' becoming FOTM. Additionally the crew experience modifier would only affect ship functions by an extra 5-10% or so. Selling your ship would result in its crew being broken up and returned to rookie status

CCP's nonsensical statement about AFKing confuses me. The only person on a killmail whilst AFK is routinely the one that got killed.


It encourages PvP activity and therefore ISK sinks, it discourages PvE activity for anything more than ISK generation and it will make people think twice before throwing their crack-crewed ships away on a whim.


 

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