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ImmutableDark
Posted - 2011.01.23 13:00:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: ImmutableDark on 24/01/2011 02:29:11
Yes I am stating that this is one of the "Inherent Flaws" in Caldari pvp... yes I am whinging... get over it.

Ok instead of ramming this down your throats as I have done previously I'm going to make a couple of suggestions. In this thread I'm going to try and explain to you why I think that sensor strength is "borken" for the Caldari. I'm going to make a couple of assumptions about how I think that eve was designed. If you don't understand what I'm talking about I would ask you to kindly do your research on the topic before posting. If you disagree with what I'm saying I would ask you to respond constructively using your knowledge of the game mechanics of eve to debunk my horribly flawed logic. I wont be posting after the original post because the feedback I've received from my original posts before has been so depressingly negative. I just want to state my case and leave.

Assumptions about the game design:
- You race is the strongest against the ewar that your race dishes out. i.e. the caldari should be strong against ecm modules and the minmatar should be strong against target painting and the gallente should be strong vs sensor dampening and the amarr should be strong vs target painting (hah! (you should be at optimal where it really shouldn't matter but meh could be wrong about this convo me ingame I actually want to know)).
- Your race is weak vs your opposing faction's allies ewar. Caldari<->Minmatar,Amarr<->Gallent(Frogs).
- Both races can fit counter measures without breaking the design or it's already built into the hull of the ship.

Only going to use the Caldari<->Minmatar case as an example(bc I don't want to teach "dem frogs"/Gallents how to use their ewar). Firstly, lets have a look at the cost of flying Caldari ships i.e. you will have a massive signature radius i.e. you are already target painted. Using two ships/race for this example:

Drake's Signature: [Base] 285m [Sgl LSE] 345m [Dbl LSE] 371m
Raven's Signature: [Base] 460m [Dbl LSE] 575m
Hurricane's Signature: [Base] 240m [Fitted] 240m
Tempest's Signature: [Base] 340m [Fitted] 340m
Benefit ratio[simplified] = Modified Sig/Mod ADJ SIG = 300m [BC] 400m [BS]
Minmatar=~25% benefit Caldari=25%-43% cost. 25% damage reduction vs 25% damage amplification (on a weaker buffer grr I R MADZ). Basically it's equivalent to one t1 module. Bam easy to understand? YUSH? YEAH? YES? YAES? GUD.

Sensor Strength: Caldar=Low Slot ECM, Minmatar=Mid Slot & Armor Tankin
Drake=[Base]19 [MOD]19really/28.1(can't fit low-slot rccm without breaking the fit)
Raven=[Base]22 [MOD]32.1
Hurricane=[Base]16 [Mod]31.4
Tempest=[Base]19 [Mod]37.2

CBR is harder with ecm and it's effectiveness is independent of jamming strength. Modified base sensor strength is 18*2(mid slot eccm benefit) for bc's and 21*2(mid slot eccm benefit) for BSes.
JSTR = jamming strength of any jamming module.
CBR=1-|(JSTR/RMOD)/(JSTR/MMOD)| Cost or benefit determined by sign.
Simplifying CBR=1-|MMOD/RMOD| Cost or benefit determined by sign.
Drake=28.1/36=21.9% cost. Real cost=47.2% imo.
Raven=32.1/42=25.7% cost.
Hurricane=31.4/36=12.7% cost.
Tempest=11.4% cost.

My Conclusions: Fly Minmatar OR Play WoW. You shouldn't give CCP money for broken mechanics.

______________
Woops *EDIT*
Typo meant LSE

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.01.23 13:57:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: ImmutableDark
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Play WoW. You shouldn't give CCP money for broken mechanics.


Feel free to stop doing it, in that case. Then you won't be able to post on the forums any more, and we won't have to read your drivel.

Xelest Czeres
Caldari
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.01.23 16:59:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Originally by: ImmutableDark
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Play WoW. You shouldn't give CCP money for broken mechanics.


Feel free to stop doing it, in that case. Then you won't be able to post on the forums any more, and we won't have to read your drivel.

Its even better in Militia chat, js. Laughing

Gerrick Palivorn
Posted - 2011.01.23 17:17:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: ImmutableDark
- You race is the strongest against the ewar that your race dishes out. i.e. the caldari should be strong against ecm modules and the minmatar should be strong against target painting and the gallente should be strong vs sensor dampening and the amarr should be strong vs target painting (hah! (you should be at optimal where it really shouldn't matter but meh could be wrong about this convo me ingame I actually want to know)).
- Your race is weak vs your opposing faction's allies ewar. Caldari<->Minmatar,Amarr<->Gallent(Frogs).



4/10 I got to here before I realized you were trolling and you already got 2 responses...

Xelest Czeres
Caldari
Helix Protocol
Posted - 2011.01.23 17:41:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Gerrick Palivorn
Originally by: ImmutableDark
- You race is the strongest against the ewar that your race dishes out. i.e. the caldari should be strong against ecm modules and the minmatar should be strong against target painting and the gallente should be strong vs sensor dampening and the amarr should be strong vs target painting (hah! (you should be at optimal where it really shouldn't matter but meh could be wrong about this convo me ingame I actually want to know)).
- Your race is weak vs your opposing faction's allies ewar. Caldari<->Minmatar,Amarr<->Gallent(Frogs).



4/10 I got to here before I realized you were trolling and you already got 2 responses...

2 responses that have nothing to do with the original post Laughing

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2011.01.23 19:44:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 23/01/2011 19:48:54
Originally by: ImmutableDark

- Your race is weak vs your opposing faction's allies ewar. Caldari<->Minmatar,Amarr<->Gallent(Frogs).



Ewar weakness is supposed to be Caldari<->Gallente, Amarr<->Minmatar. You'll find this is the case for the most part, apart from caldari where *everyone* is weak against their ewar.

Since your base assumption is wrong, we can conclude your whole point is moot (we already knew that anyway).

/thread

Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2011.01.23 22:26:00 - [7]
 

If you're comparing signatures, may want to actually use the shield modules you'll find on the ships you're comparing. No one puts MSE's on Drakes or Ravens--they use LSE. Second, a large majority of Hurricanes you'll encounter are shield tanked, versus armor, and they also use LSEs.

Minnies are the easiest to jam since they have the lowest inherent sensor strength. Caldari ships typically don't need to be painted, since their sigs are already so large. Tracking disruptors work well against any gunship. Sensor damps work well against any long-range ship, regardless of weapons system.

Radcjk
Failed Diplomacy
B A N E
Posted - 2011.01.24 06:28:00 - [8]
 

tl;dr

Posting in an ImmutableDark bull**** thread.

I think he tried to make some sort of point about CCP and broken game mechanics, even as he *gasp* keeps playing Eve.

Weird.


 

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