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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.22 19:26:00 - [1]
 

Hi. I have been mission running and trying some mining and I need advice. It seems mission running is more fun than mining because you get to kill pirates and enemies of The State. However, I have noticed that they are not that different after all because when you mine, you shoot asteroids and collect rocks but when you kill pirates, you salvage their ships. It feels like the same thing.

My problem is, I cannot fly specialty ships for mining like the Hulk or mining barges and will take me a long time to learn. I can use Ospreys and T2 miners and it makes me feel insecure with some belt pirates because it is not durable. I am not sure whether this works or not, that is, fly battleships with T2 miners as a replacement for training for mining barges.

At the end of the day, how much money can one make in high-sec mining high sec asteroids when compared to running missions? I have only tried mining briefly so it is hard for me to compare so your professional advice is needed.

Will mining in battleships still make as good money as mining in mining barges? I know the downside is I need a hauler to haul. Thanks.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.01.22 19:49:00 - [2]
 

Rohk is the best mining BS, but it's max output isn't anywhere close to a maxed out Hulk, though it can still do better than a retriever.

The best advice is to do what you have fun doing regardless of income or what other people tell you.

In highsec, lvl 4 missions with a good loadout and good skills seems to always pay more per hour than a well skilled hulk. Seems w-space/0.0 mining pays about the same as lvl 4's, and w-space and 0.0 combat sites seem to pay a lot. Trading pays the most but takes more talent to succeed than any other basic profession.

Caltelt
Posted - 2011.01.22 20:07:00 - [3]
 

If you are planning on mining in high sec, dont worry about rats, as they are easily dealt with by drones, which you can carry in any mining barge. Just train your drone skill to level 5 and scout drone to at least 4, stick a few hobgoblins in your barge and you'll be fine. For high sec mining, barges are far better than a BS.

As for mission running vs mining money wise, once you get good enough, both are great ways to make money, so just do the one that is more fun for you.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.22 20:38:00 - [4]
 

Thank you to the both of you. The Rokh for mining is a very good idea.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.01.22 22:00:00 - [5]
 



If you look at the two career paths, with someone progressing normally along them mining starts out being much more lucrative than mission running - and stays that way up until the Level 3/4 missions. Level IV Missions pay more than mining in a Hulk.


There are a lot of variable factors though.

First off - if you're already running Level IV missions ... then mining is never going to catch up to that. If you're mining in one of your battleships - it's going to be way behind. But - you could do it if you just wanted to do something different.

The thing is, these are both different career paths with different skills. All those skills that let a miner make more than someone running Level I, II or even III missions take time to acquire. It isn't just the skill to get into the ships - it's also skills are mining better and refining better. You don't have to refine your ore and probably shouldn't if you have poor skills - but it makes transporting it much more difficult than hauling the minerals. With the exception of a few missions that require specific ores, ore is valuable for the minerals that it contains and by refining it into those minerals - you get the value out of it and dispense with all the bulk of the ore.

Another thing is - minerals by themselves are of any use. You either have to make something out of them or sell them to get anything out of them - and the Production and Trading skills involved in that - as well as the experience are also a factor. With Missions - you just run the mission and you've gotten most of what you're going to get out of it. You can loot and salvage your wrecks - where refining/reprocessing and Trading also become important but you don't have to do that.




Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.01.22 22:40:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Hi. I have been mission running and trying some mining and I need advice. It seems mission running is more fun than mining because you get to kill pirates and enemies of The State. However, I have noticed that they are not that different after all because when you mine, you shoot asteroids and collect rocks but when you kill pirates, you salvage their ships. It feels like the same thing.

My problem is, I cannot fly specialty ships for mining like the Hulk or mining barges and will take me a long time to learn. I can use Ospreys and T2 miners and it makes me feel insecure with some belt pirates because it is not durable. I am not sure whether this works or not, that is, fly battleships with T2 miners as a replacement for training for mining barges.

At the end of the day, how much money can one make in high-sec mining high sec asteroids when compared to running missions? I have only tried mining briefly so it is hard for me to compare so your professional advice is needed.

Will mining in battleships still make as good money as mining in mining barges? I know the downside is I need a hauler to haul. Thanks.


Mission running in hi-sec will make you a lot more ISK than mining.

Pan Dora
Caldari
Organization for Nuclear Research
Posted - 2011.01.23 00:56:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Thank you to the both of you. The Rokh for mining is a very good idea.


At least it seems so until you notice that a small cargohold its a bad feature in a mining ship. When you notice its your decision to endure the hassle, lower your yeld, train for proper mining ship or do something that its not mining.

Personaly I like mining(its relaxing), have good skill but I rarely mine because its not profitable enough. There is too many people doing it and the mineral from reprocessed NPC loot further decrease the profit one can do with mining.


Cathy Drall
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2011.01.23 01:02:00 - [8]
 

Usually mining is considered as porfitable as L3 missions (depending in what ship). L4 missions will greatly outperform mining in a Hulk, ISk wise, so if you want a bit more challenge and variety I'd say: leave the mining for what it is and train up your combat skills.

Combat skills don't only allow you to do missions (and get standings and Loyalty Points rewards) but for example you can also do wormhole exploration, complexes and PvP as combat pilot. Mining is a very limited profession (and boring but that's just my personal taste).

Originally by: Malcanis
Mission running in hi-sec will make you a lot more ISK than mining.

I really have to get used to your new portrait!!!

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.23 01:12:00 - [9]
 

Wow. Thank you for all replies. You all are just awesome. I think I will stick to mission running. At the end of the day, I can go kill pirates or do something fun with my battleships.

As for my Rokh, if I find the cargo bay to restrictive, I might go add a few T2 cargo expanders. Worse case, LOL, I will just use an Apocalypse.

mkmin
Posted - 2011.01.23 01:25:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Wow. Thank you for all replies. You all are just awesome. I think I will stick to mission running. At the end of the day, I can go kill pirates or do something fun with my battleships.

As for my Rokh, if I find the cargo bay to restrictive, I might go add a few T2 cargo expanders. Worse case, LOL, I will just use an Apocalypse.


Apoc is not as good a mining boat as a rohk. Check wiki.eveonline.com article "advanced mining" for loads of info about the profession.

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.23 01:39:00 - [11]
 

mkmin, thanks for the wiki link. It helps a lot! I can see why the Rokh is better but the mining barges are the way to go for hard core mining.

I might just go the battleship way because it gives me a bit more flexibility with how I can play the game. Thanks.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.01.23 04:49:00 - [12]
 

Yeah, the trick with mining in a ship with a small cargo hold - is to stagger your miners - so that they don't all finish at the same time. This gives you a chance to drag the ore out of your hold and into a jet can. The trouble with that is that it's constant and there are jokes about it ... something about Carpal Tunnel Mining ... from all the wear and tear on your wrists.

The other factor there - is that a lot of miners have more than one account. So - if you're doing that with one ship ... it's one thing but if you're trying to do that with more than one ... it gets old really fast. When I'm on a mining op with a new character ... I just stick them in an industrial and have them haul - even if we don't really need the capacity ... as it's more trouble than it's worth to put them in a mining frigate. Mining Cruisers are better but still ... if you're working multiple ships ... what you are doing there - is staggering your ships output - rather than the output of the individual miners on a ship. If you've got ships with small cargo holds and high ouput ... it gets to be a pain in the ass because their miners shut down and you have to restart them - instead of just grabbing the ore from their hold and throwing it in the jet can - then alt tabbing to your next ship. Anything that interrupts that smooth cycle going around from ship to ship to ship ... slows things down - and the whole point of the mining op is - to make it as efficient as possible to try and get as much out of it as you can - in the shortest time you can. Given the need to cycle your haulers in and out of the station with their ore and visits from any belt rats that may come by ... this can get pretty involved enough as it is without having to worry about some small hold ship needing it's lasers reset because they shut off when it's hold filled.

.



Hakkar'al Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.23 08:56:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Hakkar''al Gallente on 23/01/2011 08:56:26
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire


At the end of the day, how much money can one make in high-sec mining high sec asteroids when compared to running missions? I have only tried mining briefly so it is hard for me to compare so your professional advice is needed.


I was going to write something about why everyone is centred on making ISK from plain mining. Then I saw that the OP actually asked how much isk you make. Mining to sell the ore or minerals is - imo - very much a waste of time. At least in empire. It's much slower than L4 missions. So if you are after the money go for missions.

I mine, even in high sec, but that's to build. Time isn't really an issue for me, so I mine rather than buy the minerals off the market. It's more fun, for me, that way - and gives mining a purpose =)

Pan Dora
Caldari
Organization for Nuclear Research
Posted - 2011.01.23 12:57:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Hakkar'al Gallente
Edited by: Hakkar''al Gallente on 23/01/2011 08:56:26
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire


At the end of the day, how much money can one make in high-sec mining high sec asteroids when compared to running missions? I have only tried mining briefly so it is hard for me to compare so your professional advice is needed.


I was going to write something about why everyone is centred on making ISK from plain mining. Then I saw that the OP actually asked how much isk you make. Mining to sell the ore or minerals is - imo - very much a waste of time. At least in empire. It's much slower than L4 missions. So if you are after the money go for missions.

I mine, even in high sec, but that's to build. Time isn't really an issue for me, so I mine rather than buy the minerals off the market. It's more fun, for me, that way - and gives mining a purpose =)


Well, mining, in empire space, to build its also a waste of time if your goal its to make ISK from industry. If you have plenty of time for mining you have plenty of time to run mission and buy minerals with the money you get from missions, and that its more efficient.

That its not to argue with you having fun with mining, if its fun for you keep doing it. Just notice that whille you get 'free' minerals* from mining I may get cheaper minerals from market and if we both compete to sell the same product you will be at disvantage.

*Maybe not the case with you, however a lot of people that decide to mine to get materials they need to manufactture really give no value for the effort nescessary to take the minerals out of belts. Its one of the factor to make mining so little profitable.



*

Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.23 12:57:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/01/2011 12:57:47
Hi Hakkar'al Gallente. Does it mean that players who mine are actually mining to build their stuff and not to sell to market because they are not profitable? Thank you.

Khun SP
Paramite Factories
Posted - 2011.01.23 13:30:00 - [16]
 

I must warn you about the Retriever.

Your Osprey, if its good fitted, is way stronger than a Retriever which can only handle a single med slot, and whose shields are the sux, you can't even feel secure on a 0.7 system because of rats penetrating your armor...

Osprey is a wonderful ship, enjoy it you will miss it on the future.


Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.23 14:49:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Starling on 23/01/2011 14:58:00

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Hi Hakkar'al Gallente. Does it mean that players who mine are actually mining to build their stuff and not to sell to market because they are not profitable? Thank you.

Not necessarily.

Some indy corps have a system where the corp buys your ore and refines/sells it for you. My (retired) miner alt made billions mining in a Hulk, perefcetly refining it and selling the minerals high.

The thing is that training all those skills is a waste of time in the end as L4 missioning gets you far more profit and hardly has any overlapping skill requirements - unless you decide to be a decicated inventor/manufacturer, but that takes a lot more time to train. So after months of training your mining and refining skills you have to start at zero again if you think missioning and other combat related activities is more your thing.

Keep in mind that training a good miner/hauler/refiner/Orca pilot (specialist miner) may take like 8-9 months; if you add invention/manufacturing skills that's easily 4-10 months more. You still can't fly any noteworthy combat ship then.

In the end invention/manufacturing and seeking out good markets can get you very rich. The question is if that's what you want to do as its a long term project to get there and you realy should find it fun.

Pan Dora
Caldari
Organization for Nuclear Research
Posted - 2011.01.23 15:42:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Does it mean that players who mine are actually mining to build their stuff and not to sell to market because they are not profitable? Thank you.


Not really, there is several reason to mine, some good:
-Mining require less atention/game knowledge than other forms of ISK-making. People that cant/dont want comit enough atetion/effort to other activies can still make a profit with mining.
-If you live in 0.0(both know and wormhole space) mining localy can save a lot of hassle with logistics.
-There is people that think mining its fun. Fun > ISK.
and some bad:
-People mine because someone told they to do so. They dont take a moment to think about and just blindly start mining/training mining skills.
-People mine because they are under the false assumption that there is a end game when they finaly will be able to pvp and a early game where they need to make money with boring* activies like mining.
-Lot of people mine to sell mineral because they dont realise there is better ways to make ISK.
-An annoying amount of people think that everything it get from a asteroid its free because no one tax an ISK amount to activate mining laser.

If you want to mine and you have a good reason to do, fine. People that dont mine will need this minerals or the stuff build with then sonner or later. But also realise the reason you have to not mine,when you understand and accept this reason you save yourself from a lot of frustation, resulting in a better game experience.



*At lerast most people that mine to later PVP find it boring.

Panhead4411
Posted - 2011.01.23 17:13:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: mkmin
Rohk is the best mining BS, but it's max output isn't anywhere close to a maxed out Hulk, though it can still do better than a retriever.



This can be alittle deceptive

Yes, a Rokh can have a higher output, but it also has much less cargo space.

So, it is only a better miner IF it is drop canning or fleeted w/ an Orca.

The Apoc according to my opinion (and comparative use of EFT) is the best solo miner, as it beats out the yield of a retriever when alone as it also has larger hold (dumping ore in station each time hold is full)

However, a Rokh, setup for Orca support can easily get 3/4 of what a Hulk can pull. With The Modulated Lasers, it will pull something like 1400/cycle (1 minute) which is much better than a Hulk using non-modulated Strip's. (this setup gets a bit tricky with smaller cargo hold, but can be done)

A mining BS right now is actually cheaper than a Hulk, so its what i'm gna stick to for a long time yet

With ore prices slowly rising, it may be a good time to mine, but in Hi-sec, lvl 4's is deff the best way to earn monies.

Hakkar'al Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.24 07:27:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Pan Dora


Well, mining, in empire space, to build its also a waste of time if your goal its to make ISK from industry. If you have plenty of time for mining you have plenty of time to run mission and buy minerals with the money you get from missions, and that its more efficient.

That its not to argue with you having fun with mining, if its fun for you keep doing it.


Fair enough - I find missions hideously boring so i don't do missions =)
Mining is very relaxing =)) and you can always watch a video meanwhile.

Hakkar'al Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.24 07:35:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 23/01/2011 12:57:47
Hi Hakkar'al Gallente. Does it mean that players who mine are actually mining to build their stuff and not to sell to market because they are not profitable? Thank you.


No idea - probably not all of them, as others have posted already. Selling ore is just not enough iskies in high sec if you do it for money - again imo. There are better ways to get ISK.

I've lived in 0.0 for a year and am getting rusty on the ways of the high sec carebears Razz



My Postman
Posted - 2011.01.24 11:51:00 - [22]
 

There is no need to mine in BS or Ospreys. A retriever can perfectly handle belt rats (with decent skills) and you can fit a DC II on it.

Anyway there is no use for cargo expanders because of the small cargo bay, you will have to jet-can mine this or that way.

While it can perfectly handle belt rats, keep in mind that it still is a paper thin vessel when thinking of a ganking attempt. If you are using a retriever you will count the minutes till you can upgrade to a hulk.

Last thing, when mining in highsec, you will make more with running L3s, not even taking into account L4s.

Hope this helps.

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.01.24 12:24:00 - [23]
 

There are a number of things here which have more than the variables mentioned.

1) The rocks are free - what ever other expenses are involved - the rocks themselves ARE free - and that is why people think that - because it's true. Where there is a problem - is in people not realizing the mineral value of the items they produce - and selling them for less than they could have sold the mineral for themselves. Now ... with the drop in mineral prices, from what they were, this is something that is less of a consideration that it was.

2) For people who have already invested all the skills in mining - and don't have a lot of combat skills - simply continuing to mine is a good way to make money.

3) Someone who has a character that is already trained as a miner - can go right ahead and train to run missions too. Their basic support skills in Engineering, Electronics, Navigation etc, will all still be there. The only down side to doing that - is that you end up with an expensive clone - but then if you don't get podded all the time - that's not that big a deal.

4) Mining as part of a group - like with Orca support - is much more profitable than doing mine and return by yourself.

5) There are those who tell you to just Blitz your Level I, II & III missions to get to Level IV where the real money is - but usually aren't all that big on just where you're going to get the money to pay for your Battle Cruiser and Battleship. Running Level II missions ... is a damn slow way to pay for a Battle Cruiser. I guess that IS what people are doing - but it is a slow way to make money.

6) There is a trap though is setting out on an industrial career - and planning on using that to fund such as PVP. That trap is that ... there are a lot of different things you can do as an industrialist and a lot of people get caught up in that and ... don't quite get around to the PVP.

7) The other thing is ... the idea that you HAVE to make a choice is not a valid one. One of the best ways to mine - is to mine mission space. You run a mission - if there are rocks - you mine them too. This gets you - the money for the mission, improved standings with the NCP corporation owning your base which saves you money, the loot, the wrecks and the asteroids - all in an environment where, unless you are running Level IV missions and attracting Ninja attention - you are relatively safe from other players as it's mostly the Ninja's who scan people down. Now - if you only have one character - this doesn't work as well - but - if you have multiple characters - it works really well. The haulers really don't have that much to train to do that - and can train as the combat guys who run the missions - then - when they've topped out as miners the miners can start running missions too.

8) And - it all depends on what you find to be fun. For me ... I just hate doing the same thing all the time. So - I do all kinds of things. The way to really, really make a lot of money - is to specialize - but I cannot think of anything more mind numbingly boring than logging in every day to do the same damn thing I did the day before. But some people like that.


So - when you read people saying bad things about anything ... think about exactly what they are saying and what THEIR goals are.

You will constantly be bombarded with posts by mission runners deriding mining - and - making note that in the end - their profession makes more money. Well - my answer to that - is that TRADING makes more money. If what you want to do is MAKE MONEY - then TRADING is what makes the most money. That is how I get most of mine. But I don't really like trading, I don't really like running missions - but - I do like mining. I don't mind running missions, especially if for the purpose of finding asteroid belts to exploit and I don't mind trading, especially where I've found a nice way to make some money with little effort - but while I don't mind doing them - I don't actually LIKE it.


Caliban Zateki
Posted - 2011.04.21 04:40:00 - [24]
 

not to resurrect an old thread but I both mine and run missions. If I am doing school work or pretty much anything else that is attention intensive I usually have my miner going on another monitor. Strip miners with their 3 minute cycles and the hulk with its cargo hold gives me plenty of time to get some work done before taking a break and dumping off ore. And if I have actual free time to do what I want well then its mission running. Just my 2 cents

Julyan Fox
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.24 11:22:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Julyan Fox on 24/04/2011 11:26:13
Originally by: Caliban Zateki
not to resurrect an old thread but I both mine and run missions.


Quoting for truth here. I'm also a miner and mission runner. Never ever forget you can do a lot of things remotely while mining (PI, production, trade, planning stuff, chat, do your irl things). But forget about mining in a BS. Bring a mining barge(around 40 days for a hulk with 18000 m3 cargo hold if you solo mine) and you won't hear of cargo dragging ever.

Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.04.24 14:00:00 - [26]
 

A few things:

Once you can do lvl 4 missions missions make far more ISK/hour than mining.

The skills you train for mining don't cary over into any other profession in EVE, they are only useful when mining. The skill set for a good mission ship gives you a good way in the direction of possibly pvp etc.

Tau Cabalander
Posted - 2011.04.24 20:26:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 24/04/2011 20:28:55
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Thank you to the both of you. The Rokh for mining is a very good idea.

Here's a fit for a mining Rokh.

One problem with MDCM II lasers is they require so much skill to use (Mining 5 + Astrogeology 5 + crystal skill), that by the time you can use them you are usually in a mining barge like a Retriever or better.

Another is that they fill the Rokh's cargohold really fast, so you have to stagger them (typically no more than 2 started at the same time). You will end-up dragging a lot of ore to a jetcan.

You can use regular Miner II. They are less efficient, but require less skill.

[Rokh, Carpal Tunnel Syndrome]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II

Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array
Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array
Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array
V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
Medium C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets

Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I


Hammerhead II x5

Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari
Posted - 2011.04.25 16:47:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Idicious Lightbane
A few things:

Once you can do lvl 4 missions missions make far more ISK/hour than mining.

The skills you train for mining don't cary over into any other profession in EVE, they are only useful when mining. The skill set for a good mission ship gives you a good way in the direction of possibly pvp etc.


+1 Internets for this [wo?]man

Toshiro GreyHawk
Posted - 2011.04.25 17:37:00 - [29]
 

Yeah, same old crap. Tap a mission runner on the knee with a rubber hammer and out pops:

"Mission Running Makes More Than Mining!"

....

1) That's only at level IV or so, maybe somewhere in level III depending.

2) You've got some NPC making jump through hoops - "Kill this guy. Deliver this salve for my sister. Go blow up those guys." If you like having a computer generated character telling you what to do - mission running is great!

3) Mining lends itself better to using multiple characters than any other profession. If you've got multiple characters you can make a lot more than you would alone - and - you'll be far to busy to be bored.

4) Mission running is boring. Same old mission you've already run any number of times. If you want real excitement - go PVP.

5) If what you want is to make money - TRADING - makes more money than anything else.

6) As I said above - there's nothing limiting you to just mining. You can run missions - then if they have rocks in them mine those too.


Now we'll have ten more parrots ca-ca-cawing away "Missions Make More Money! Missions Make More Money! Sqwaaaack! Sqwaaaack!"

Rolling Eyes

*shrug*

If you don't want to do it - don't do it.

Of course - the fewer miners there are the more asteroids for me so all you new people - go run missions - Missions Make More Money!


.

Lost Greybeard
Gallente
Posted - 2011.04.25 17:43:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk

2) You've got some NPC making jump through hoops - "Kill this guy. Deliver this salve for my sister. Go blow up those guys." If you like having a computer generated character telling you what to do - mission running is great!



Pro-tip: If you get this ridiculously defensive over NPCs, who are not even real people and have no choice in what they do or capacity to do anything really offensive... this may not be the game for you.


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