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blankseplocked An Obvious Counter to SuperCarriers and New Dreadnaught Role
 
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Cheng Jaboo
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.21 12:09:00 - [1]
 

There have been 100s of posts about how to balance Supercarriers in recent weeks. I suggest something that has seen little attention recently.

"Capital Warp Disruptor"

Can be fitted to any Dreadnught.

Siege module activation cause the Capital Warp Disruptor to malfunction which prevents 3 or 4 Dreads solo-pwning a SC.

This puts the Dread in an interesting new position. It will be able to point a super-cap, but not be able to apply its full damage or utilize an increased tank. This also makes buffer dreads a viable option as they would be able to point a SC and possibly tank long enough for his friends to come in and help kill the SC or Titan.

Thoughts?

Pasmerktas
Posted - 2011.01.21 13:58:00 - [2]
 

i actually pretty much like your idea

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.21 14:08:00 - [3]
 

And this solves what exactly? Will make no difference with the SC blobs we are seeing at the moment.

The big problem is not that there is a lack of tackle but that SC's have 10x the EHP and almost twice the dps of dreads .. even with the suggested tackle available you'll still need insane amounts of ship/pilots per SC being fielded by opponent.

Vim
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.01.21 14:08:00 - [4]
 

Ehm... So you want a big hic that can be remote repped by buddies since its not sieged.
Now, capital warp disruptor in siege mode to, that would be ok. Siege, can't be remote repped but can utilize an infinipoint. Just like a hic.

Still hoping for a 5 min siege cycle instead of 10 as a nice little step for better dread usability.



Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.01.21 14:30:00 - [5]
 

The best solution to supercarriers is to make their capability inline with other EVE ships.

At the moment they break with established EvE traditions, which are 1) No solopwnmobiles 2) Ship class EHP / DPS increments of roughly 100% per class. 3) uber pwnage offset by certain factors (immobility, decreased ability to hit moving targets / smaller targets).

Download EFT and add each ship class with 1 mwd and t1 armament, you will see there is a consistent pattern for each class jump, until BC<->BS (medium discrepency) and then a major discrepency between tier 1 capitals and SC.

Reduce the SC build cost to match the emergent pattern and adjust dps / ehp and you no longer have a problem imo.


leich
Amarr
Sad Panda'z
Posted - 2011.01.21 15:10:00 - [6]
 

This issue is nothing to do with the SC DPS or tank,

The Issue is with the dread.

It's DPS is just far to low.

People dont seem to put 2 and 2 together as more players get older more Caps are going to be flying about. It's not bad it's great. and was always goiung to happen. stop asking for nerfs ask for boosts to areas that need it.


Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.01.21 15:25:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 21/01/2011 15:26:19
Originally by: leich
This issue is nothing to do with the SC DPS or tank,

The Issue is with the dread.

It's DPS is just far to low.

People dont seem to put 2 and 2 together as more players get older more Caps are going to be flying about. It's not bad it's great. and was always goiung to happen. stop asking for nerfs ask for boosts to areas that need it.



Everything is relative. Dread DPS would be far higher if SC were required to go into seige mode and the dps / ehp was in line with establish dps / ehp jumps from lower class ships.

If you have less ehp to kill and less dps to tank you have more chance of victory despite your dreads dps output and ehp staying the same.

You don't fix an SC imbalance by imbalancing dreads to deal with SC, you fix the imbalance by address the SC.

Berikath
Posted - 2011.01.21 16:13:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Cheng Jaboo
Siege module activation cause the Capital Warp Disruptor to malfunction which prevents 3 or 4 Dreads solo-pwning a SC.

...

Thoughts?



My thought is you need a refresher on the definition of "solo".

[ /troll]

Srs (but half-baked) answer- IMHO, implement capital-sized smartbombs, but with a few changes.

1. Range of something like 6k.

2. Minimal/no damage done.

3. Primary use is that they disable drones (including fighter-bombers). Disabled drones stop and sit still until effect wears off. Something like 15 second cycle time, 30 second drone deactivation if it procs.

4. Base chance of 10% to proc.

5. Capital Smartbomb skill: "Increases proc chance of Capital Smartbombs by 100% each level after level 1 is trained", for a max chance of 50%.

6. SIGNIFICANT cap cost. I was thinking something like the cost of running capital repair/shield recharge systems (1200-ish per cycle?)

End result- something like a 75% reduction in drone damage at max skill, but ONLY drone damage and using it craps all over your ability to tank normally. If you have backup, they have a much easier time popping the drones when they're deactivated.

Seems like a fair trade to me.

Laventhros Ormus
Posted - 2011.01.23 05:13:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Berikath
Originally by: Cheng Jaboo
Siege module activation cause the Capital Warp Disruptor to malfunction which prevents 3 or 4 Dreads solo-pwning a SC.

...

Thoughts?



My thought is you need a refresher on the definition of "solo".


Srs (but half-baked) answer- IMHO, implement capital-sized smartbombs, but with a few changes.

1. Range of something like 6k.

2. Minimal/no damage done.

3. Primary use is that they disable drones (including fighter-bombers). Disabled drones stop and sit still until effect wears off. Something like 15 second cycle time, 30 second drone deactivation if it procs.

4. Base chance of 10% to proc.

5. Capital Smartbomb skill: "Increases proc chance of Capital Smartbombs by 100% each level after level 1 is trained", for a max chance of 50%.

6. SIGNIFICANT cap cost. I was thinking something like the cost of running capital repair/shield recharge systems (1200-ish per cycle?)

End result- something like a 75% reduction in drone damage at max skill, but ONLY drone damage and using it craps all over your ability to tank normally. If you have backup, they have a much easier time popping the drones when they're deactivated.

[ /troll]

Seems like a fair trade to me.


Fix'd

If they were to use something like this, the range would have to be maybe around 50km.

AND

Not be able to point anything below a capital in size.
And cost a lot of cap.

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.01.23 05:40:00 - [10]
 

While I like the idea of a Capital Warp Disruptor to fit it into game mechanics you would have to assign the Supercarrier a warp rating. Say you made it 100. Capital Warp Disruptor holds for 101. What will happen is 100 ships with 20km 1 pt ones will hold down a supercarrier.

What might be a better use here might be a new ship Capital Interdictor, working off the Heavy Interdictor it would have a Capital Warp Bubble Generator, that has a larger bubble than the Heavy. Good Tank, Low DPS ship.

I think a dread boost might be better done with more specialized weapons added for it, or new siege modules.

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.01.23 07:23:00 - [11]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1449610&page=1

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.01.23 07:59:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Val'Dore
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1449610&page=1


While its an idea it gives 2 main roles to the same ship.....Interdiction and DPS...bad combo.

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.01.23 08:39:00 - [13]
 

the problem is that dreads dont do anything that supercapitals dont do better combined with supercapital proliferation.

Need to take out a POS? bring a titan
Need to kill enemy cap ships? bring a titan or a supercarrier

The carrier is still used because it has a unique role: Triage

The dread is not for two reasons:
1. It doesnt have a unique role (Remember why motherships were never used?)
2. Its cost is disproportionate to its effectiveness. (again remember motherships?)

A Revelation costs say 1.5 billion, and a Nyx costs say 15 billion, and while 10x revelations will kill one Nyx, Nyxs can receive RR and the Revelations cant . . .

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.01.23 08:58:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Sigras
the problem is that dreads dont do anything that supercapitals dont do better combined with supercapital proliferation.

Need to take out a POS? bring a titan
Need to kill enemy cap ships? bring a titan or a supercarrier

The carrier is still used because it has a unique role: Triage

The dread is not for two reasons:
1. It doesnt have a unique role (Remember why motherships were never used?)
2. Its cost is disproportionate to its effectiveness. (again remember motherships?)

A Revelation costs say 1.5 billion, and a Nyx costs say 15 billion, and while 10x revelations will kill one Nyx, Nyxs can receive RR and the Revelations cant . . .


The simplest solution might be to allow dreads to be RR :)

Nisshoku
Posted - 2011.01.23 16:41:00 - [15]
 

revamp siege mode and it's probably fixed.
make siege bonus lesser, and increase base damage bonus, to make up for it. so you can still do something while moving. if you can hit anything that is.

Boonaki
Caldari
Focused Annihilation
Detrimental Imperative
Posted - 2011.01.23 18:40:00 - [16]
 

I'd rather have a capital interdictor, like a HIC but a 250 km base range and a 5% bonus to range per level of capital interdictor range and it disrupts warp, jump, and MWD's.

Sigras
Gallente
Conglomo
Posted - 2011.01.23 21:07:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Mecinia Lua
The simplest solution might be to allow dreads to be RR :)


That's my thought exactly, I was thinking, remove the rep bonus' but add a 30% resist across the board shield and armor and allow for RR.

What do you think?

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.01.23 21:26:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Cheng Jaboo

Siege module activation cause the Capital Warp Disruptor to malfunction which prevents 3 or 4 Dreads solo-pwning a SC.



Three things:
- Your definition of solo needs some work.
- Supercaps have plenty of defenses of their own. You don't need to help it out.
- This has actually been suggested in the assembly hall, and I've been arguing with Bobbeh over it for the last 3-4 days.

A link for your convenience: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1451936

-Liang

Berikath
Posted - 2011.01.24 16:10:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Laventhros Ormus

Fix'd



Wut?

Never claimed it was a stellar idea, but what exactly is your problem with it? If you're gonna say I'm trolling with it, you could at least say WHY.


 

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