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seplocked Crime and Punishment
blankseplocked End of casual suicide ganking
 
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John Galt
Posted - 2011.01.20 07:39:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: John Galt on 20/01/2011 07:41:41
Simple solution for all players, implement cargo containers in the game that can't be scanned, are fairly expensive and protect the cargo within them better.

Advantages to this system are: It's more realistic that a universe plagued by suicide gankers, that only attack when it's almost guaranteed that they will be able to replace their ship and make a profit, would attempt to hinder the main problem of the cost of their cargo being so easily determined.

That they are expensive will make it so that not everyone is wanting to spend the money on them or the time to find/buy them or maybe even train the skill to use bigger cans, leaving plenty of targets for pirates to still kill.

And with the extra protection on the cans protecting the loot better pirates that now actually have to take a risk when destroying a ship they aren't 100% sure will be profitable are more likely to keep what they kill and this creates more interesting situations where pirates can ransom back cargo instead of it simply being lost to all in a senseless destruction.

Also this does not eliminate suicide ganking as an option for revenge or other uses where people have a legitimate cause to kill someone and bypass concord. All this does is makes it so that ganking is not 100% profitable and gives players a fair chance to move cargo around that is more valuable than the ganker's ship.

Eve is loosing hundreds of players sick of loosing all their cargo because they can't afford a freighter for loads too big to carry in any ship smaller than an industrial and since CCP doesn't seem willing to turn concord into a real police force that tries to prevent crime they should at least untie players hands and give us the options to protect ourselves by protecting the privacy of our cargo holds. All who are tired of endless risk of suicide ganking please bump this thread. All pirates looking to save more cargo from your kills please bump this thread. All casual suicide gankers bump this thread then go die please : )

Yokai Mitsuhide
Amarr
Yokai Syndicate
Posted - 2011.01.20 07:45:00 - [2]
 

OR you could be more careful when moving your valuables... there are ways to make it harder for someone to see if you have anything worth ganking you over... like mixing in a ton of useless worthless crap so by the time they look through it...you're already warping away.
It is fine the way it is now.

Alotta Baggage
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.01.20 07:51:00 - [3]
 

Suicide ganking is great when you make a profit but mostly it's for the tears. I support the magic cans idea as it will make for a better gamble. Very Happy

John Galt
Posted - 2011.01.20 07:55:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: John Galt on 20/01/2011 07:55:56
You shouldn't have to hide your cargo in a ton of junk, although that is nice idea. I am just saying that right now the privacy of cargo being scanned is a major issue and we need something easier than coming up with a dozen junk items to haul around with our stuff everywhere we go so you don't have to buy it at the distant station when picking up cargo, the ballast idea as you propose just doesn't work consistently.

Criminals shouldn't be allowed to rummage through your house then only be charged for a crime if they take something, you should have a way to lock your doors so they can't be rummaged through in the first place.

Alotta Baggage
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.01.20 08:02:00 - [5]
 

lol, comparing internet spaceships to real life Laughing










(you just lost any credibility your argument had Razz)

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.01.20 08:16:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 20/01/2011 08:16:58
Originally by: Alotta Baggage
lol, comparing internet spaceships to real life Laughing



(you just lost any credibility your argument had Razz)

Most games are based on aspects of real life. Many examples of this in EvE and every other MMO out there.

Without real life as a basis for in-game mechanics we would be flying around on space camels, shooting each other with frostbolts and casting greater heal whenever our camels got low on spagetti.

In other words if you purchased a world war II flight simulator you would expect elements of world war II from real life to be included in the game as well as the historic benefits and limitations of that real life era.

Your argument is foolish.

Serpents smile
Posted - 2011.01.20 08:17:00 - [7]
 

Buy Orca, put stoof in corporate hangars, move on.Cool

Darius III
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.01.20 08:21:00 - [8]
 

Since CCP and CSM have agreed that ganking is at a decent place, rule-wise don't expect that to happen.

Also guy with the "have 1 million useless items" advice about not getting ganked-this doesnt work too often. I have many times scanned a guy with 500 items and had plenty of time before they got to the gate with the shooters on it to find the jewels. If I weren't so lazy I would link the kills :D

Tnam
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.01.20 09:54:00 - [9]
 

CCP could make this change, on the other hand, what would be the fun in that. These 100's of people you claim are emorage quitting eve over suicide ganks should really have just stuck to playing Sims online anyway.

The only way I would sign this idea is if these cans cost 25 plex to buy and dropped with 100% certainty as plex.


Natasha Hec
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:00:00 - [10]
 

Put the stuff you want to move into a can, then contract it to yourself using an alt as a hauling contract (cant remember if thats what they are called) and then a cargo scanner wont show whats inside that original cargo container.

Also use cloaky haulers/deep space transports, actually tank your haulers, dont move 100bil items in tech 1 indy..... and so on and so on

there are plenty of ways around suicide ganking, just most people want it easy and not have to think about things

My Postman
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:38:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 20/01/2011 08:16:58
Originally by: Alotta Baggage
lol, comparing internet spaceships to real life Laughing



(you just lost any credibility your argument had Razz)

Most games are based on aspects of real life. Many examples of this in EvE and every other MMO out there.

Without real life as a basis for in-game mechanics we would be flying around on space camels, shooting each other with frostbolts and casting greater heal whenever our camels got low on spagetti.

In other words if you purchased a world war II flight simulator you would expect elements of world war II from real life to be included in the game as well as the historic benefits and limitations of that real life era.

Your argument is foolish.



BEST.POAST.EVER.

Cekle Skyscales
Gallente
New Eden Logistics
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:40:00 - [12]
 

Transport your cargo in a bigger ship.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.01.20 10:57:00 - [13]
 

I think, there must be some reason banks dont carry their gold bars in unsecured trucks.
Adapt or die.

whispous
Gallente
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
Posted - 2011.01.20 11:18:00 - [14]
 

SOME SUGGESTIONS:


1. USE A CLOAKY HAULER

2. DON'T USE AUTOPILOT

3. BRING THE SUPER EXPENSIVE STUFF IN A HEAVILY TANKED SHIP LIKE A BATTLESHIP

Kushan
Taggart Transdimensional
Virtue of Selfishness
Posted - 2011.01.20 11:27:00 - [15]
 

There are innumerable ways to protect yourself from suicide ganking. In its current form, I don't see an issue with it. The onus is on the player to educate themselves and take appropriate measures to protect themselves, as it should be. A suggestion like this looks like a generic dumbing the game down idea, and I'm categorically opposed to things like that. It's EVE, it shouldn't be easy or profitable to be lazy.

Teladius
Star Frontiers
Posted - 2011.01.20 11:42:00 - [16]
 

suicide ganking is fun. THE END

munitqua
Caldari
BlackSite Prophecy
Posted - 2011.01.20 12:09:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Teladius
suicide ganking is fun. THE END


YEAHH!!! Twisted Evil

Prince Spiderman
Posted - 2011.01.20 12:23:00 - [18]
 

NO (R)ISK. NO FUN!

Sealiah
Minmatar
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club
Care Factor
Posted - 2011.01.20 12:36:00 - [19]
 

Hmm... Put a courier in a courier and move on :)

fat chickychick
Posted - 2011.01.20 12:37:00 - [20]
 

WTB the loot from John Galt's hauler.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.01.20 12:38:00 - [21]
 

Its called an orca.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.01.20 12:42:00 - [22]
 

Orca's are a workaround only. They were never meant to be used as secure non-loot dropping haulers.

Double wrapping is another workaround.



Griznatch
Gallente
Xicron Syndicate
Double Tap Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.20 15:18:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Griznatch on 20/01/2011 15:19:03

Originally by: Alotta Baggage


Without real life as a basis for in-game mechanics we would be flying around on space camels, shooting each other with frostbolts and casting greater heal whenever our camels got low on spagetti.




I'd play that.

Golanik
Posted - 2011.01.20 15:48:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: John Galt


Eve is loosing hundreds of players sick of loosing all their cargo because they can't afford a freighter for loads too big to carry in any ship smaller than an industrial and since CCP doesn't seem willing to turn concord into a real police force that tries to prevent crime they should at least untie players hands and give us the options to protect ourselves by protecting the privacy of our cargo holds. All who are tired of endless risk of suicide ganking please bump this thread. All pirates looking to save more cargo from your kills please bump this thread. All casual suicide gankers bump this thread then go die please : )


Character named John Galt calling for more government intervention and less personal responsibility. Ironic lulz.

John Galt
Posted - 2011.01.20 16:25:00 - [25]
 

For all those reading I'm suggesting this as a general game change for the benefit of all players not looking for personal advice.

@ serpentis smile, again how many players can afford or fly an orca? Although maybe something like that that is more attainable a secure hauler of sorts in industrial not capital size would be nice.

@tnam making the cans more valuable than most any cargo you'd be carrying is pretty stupid as it would simply further guarantee the profitability of suicide ganking, where what we need is some risk to the gankers that they might not make a profit.

@natasha I'm not sure that even works, I tried something similar putting my stuff in shipping package and sent my alt to get it when I got ganked, was hoping it being right after downtime with my cargo wrapped in shipping and being .8+ space 3 jumps away would protect my ship and somehow the ganker still knew it would be profitable to suicide gank me so either he just got really lucky or scanners can see inside of packaging and maybe even cans inside of packaging. And again this is a ton of work and only available to those using an alt since you can't accept a contract from yourself.

And those suggesting bigger ships or armed battleships obviously don't haul much nor did you read my original post, since there are many objects that won't fit in a battleship that need to be shipped, like other ships or pos parts to name a few. Also not everyone working up to get a freighter or a battleship can have a secure way to haul the cargo they are using to try and afford these safer methods of hauling. These are the people that get frustrated with the game when they are trying to build up a legitimate enterprise and some alt that has trained for a week to be a suicide ganker wipes out all the work they have been at for months, and can't be countered without great skill (freighters, bs, orca etc..) and without great wealth since you need at least 450m for an orca and carrying anything over 50m can get you suicide ganked.

@ And I'm not asking for more government, I'd gladly have way less concord sitting around on their butts doing nothing if it cut my taxes. I am also not advocating less personal responsibility, just the opposite in fact, but right now it is impossible for most people to take responsibility and protect their cargo because of skills or wealth do to game mechanics and lack of solutions to ganking hence this proposal.


vonDuck
Gallente
Knights Templar ordre de eve brethren mmx
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.20 16:44:00 - [26]
 

Right. Double-wrapping is basically saying to gankers, "In case you're wondering if I'm carrying something valuable, let me make it abundantly clear that I am by taking measures to mask the identity of the items!" :)

Unfortunately, I think that anything you do to reduce the likelihood of being successfully scanned increases the likelihood of you being summarily destroyed. If you are hiding something, it's probably something worth taking.

Two things quickly come to mind:

First is to have a module, e.g. "Cargo Shield I", that obscures what's in your hold returning only a percentage of items, the meta n-(skill level using this module) level equivalent, or something along those lines.

Second is to have a container that drops locked. You might consider some codebreaker workaround or something starting the clock between the owner picking it back up and the ganker breaking into it.

Daniel Idaho
Posted - 2011.01.20 16:59:00 - [27]
 

I think enough people would use these secure cans that suicide gankers wouldn't be able to afford to kill everyone using them, and most people wouldn't have enough carrying in them to cover the cost of the ganker's ship because most people don't know how much it costs them to replace their ship and would scan protect even small cargo just to be safe. Would also allow for decoys to lure gankers into wasting their ship for an empty scan can, and players may have them on board going to pick something up, gankers wouldn't know if they had cargo in them yet or not. So it would create an element of risk for gankers and they'd actually have to strategize their ganking spots like haunting dead end links for people trying to come out of them since most people don't haul cargo to a dead end but often go to a dead end to retrieve something.

Tnam
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:08:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: John Galt
@tnam making the cans more valuable than most any cargo you'd be carrying is pretty stupid as it would simply further guarantee the profitability of suicide ganking, where what we need is some risk to the gankers that they might not make a profit.



You are missing the point, suicide ganking is a good mechanic, and anything like you say would just cause people to be able to move expensive stuff around space at insanely low risk which is really not an eve thing. Lots of people posted in this way some ways to stop yourself getting ganked, imo all these "workaround" are a bit sploity except using a cloaky hauler, **** shouldn't really work that way.

It should be that the only way to truely defend your loot is bringing actual defence that can keep the hauler alive.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:37:00 - [29]
 

3/10

Klauz Lycan
Posted - 2011.01.20 17:52:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Infinity Ziona


Without real life as a basis for in-game mechanics we would be flying around on space camels, shooting each other with frostbolts and casting greater heal whenever our camels got low on spagetti.




oh my god! CAN WE HAVE tHAT PLZ ?! PLEEEEEEAASE!!!

i already named my camel larry.


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