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blankseplocked do frigates have a place in 0.0 fleet pvp?
 
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Fedeye Kin
Posted - 2011.01.20 01:37:00 - [1]
 

I started playing Eve with the idea of getting involved some of these epic looking fleet battles and am only a few days off an interceptor but it suddenly occured to me after training for these and other frigates are they needed/useful in a large fleet?

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.20 02:07:00 - [2]
 

good tackler pilots are always useful
Just that if you are a noob, it's better you let the pro's handle tackle and you sit in a BS/dread/carrier and do exactly what your FC tells you, no need to think

Two Shots
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.01.20 02:09:00 - [3]
 

Rifters are the backbone of every Goonswarm fleet.

CarnegieSteel
Posted - 2011.01.20 02:50:00 - [4]
 

In a big fleet, just treat frigates as large drones. (Drones that carry points). The DPS of a budget rifter is roughly equal to that of a heavy drone.

Pax Thar
Minmatar
Heathen Army
Posted - 2011.01.20 03:00:00 - [5]
 

Very useful. Only a few things you have to understand first. If your in a rifter or T1 frig youll be treated as expendable and used as hero tackle often because you in a cheap ship. Interceptors pilots are always useful when trying to tackle or catch soemthing off the gate, but you have to hone your skills; it gets irritating when you lose multiple should haves because your tackle isnt up to par.

Diablo Ex
Caldari
The Devil's Reject's
Posted - 2011.01.20 03:26:00 - [6]
 

Frigates in the right hands can be a real benefit to large fleets.
Interceptors are excellent for tackling ships that think sitting 150+km off the gate makes them invulnerable.

Nothing can be more irritating than a small squadron of small fast moving Ewar Kitsunes.

The Rifter is simply legendary, and almost every Cyno pilot flies a Kestrel.
.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.20 05:28:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Fedeye Kin
I started playing Eve with the idea of getting involved some of these epic looking fleet battles and am only a few days off an interceptor but it suddenly occured to me after training for these and other frigates are they needed/useful in a large fleet?


If you enjoy being popped within the first five minutes of any serious fleet battle, go ahead and fly something smaller than a Drake.

SmallGang Bandit
Posted - 2011.01.20 16:14:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: Fedeye Kin
I started playing Eve with the idea of getting involved some of these epic looking fleet battles and am only a few days off an interceptor but it suddenly occured to me after training for these and other frigates are they needed/useful in a large fleet?


If you enjoy being popped within the first five minutes of any serious fleet battle, go ahead and fly something smaller than a Drake.

If your FC is targeting frigates first, enjoy losing a lot of battles as your DPS is slaughtered by your opponent.

T1 frigates as a rule are not as useful, but damn cheap. T2 frigates are a different game, depending on the specific shiptype and pilots.

My opinion (and just that, not expertise as I am not a fleet FC) these frigates (in order) would be early targets:
  • eWar frigates get popped a lot.

  • light dictors get popped a lot (not technically a frigate, but close in cost).

  • bombers are deadly in the right hands, and priority targets when seen.


These ships will get popped by the random pilot who isn't following the FC targets, or if the enemy has frigates in their fleet - but are less likely targets and still useful:
  • interceptors are always useful as scouts and light tackle. even though it's not I'd put the Rifter in this role.

  • assault frigates have great DPS for a frigate, and speed that can make them useful and often overlooked.



Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.20 20:25:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: SmallGang Bandit
If your FC is targeting frigates first, enjoy losing a lot of battles as your DPS is slaughtered by your opponent.


Free fire on frigs is a general rule in fleets, especially for people flying HAC/BC/T3, because medium weapons pretty much **** them.

Quote:
T1 frigates as a rule are not as useful, but damn cheap. T2 frigates are a different game, depending on the specific shiptype and pilots.


None of them are survivable against Scorch or Barrage applied at range.

Quote:
My opinion (and just that, not expertise as I am not a fleet FC) these frigates (in order) would be early targets:


I can't imagine why an FC would want to clear fast tackle off his fleet. Surely a mark of incompetence.

jk, that was sarcasm and you are a ****ing idiot.

Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.01.20 20:36:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Target Painter

Free fire on frigs is a general rule in fleets, especially for people flying HAC/BC/T3, because medium weapons pretty much **** them.


Rolling Eyes

Mutant Miner
Caldari
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2011.01.20 21:29:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Bluejacket CT
Originally by: Target Painter

Free fire on frigs is a general rule in fleets, especially for people flying HAC/BC/T3, because medium weapons pretty much **** them.


Rolling Eyes

SmallGang Bandit
Posted - 2011.01.20 22:07:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: SmallGang Bandit
If your FC is targeting frigates first, enjoy losing a lot of battles as your DPS is slaughtered by your opponent.


Free fire on frigs is a general rule in fleets, especially for people flying HAC/BC/T3, because medium weapons pretty much **** them.

Quote:
T1 frigates as a rule are not as useful, but damn cheap. T2 frigates are a different game, depending on the specific shiptype and pilots.


None of them are survivable against Scorch or Barrage applied at range.

Quote:
My opinion (and just that, not expertise as I am not a fleet FC) these frigates (in order) would be early targets:


I can't imagine why an FC would want to clear fast tackle off his fleet. Surely a mark of incompetence.

jk, that was sarcasm and you are a ****ing idiot.


Obvious troll - or sadly inexperienced in large fleet battles. Ever hear of alpha/focused strikes? If your fleet is a ragtag group and you got jumped, yeah, you gotta kill the tackle and GTFO, but if you are in a large coordinated fleet battle (150+ per side) and you are shooting whatever you want for killmails, you are reducing the alpha DPS of the fleet and reducing the likelyhood of your fleet winning the battle. I'd guess Fleet targets in this order: EWar | Logistics | DPS/Dictors/Tackle. Because if you kill tackle first, you will lose ships as their DPS takes out your logistics. Fleet battles with objectives aren't about how many frigate killmails you get.

I'm not a fleet FC - but your rules might apply in small gang combat if the situation called for it.

BTW, what alliance has your main flown with? I'd love to know who's FCs don't target call for the most common DPS ships like BCs (hello drakeblob!)

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.21 02:52:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: SmallGang Bandit
Obvious troll - or sadly inexperienced in large fleet battles.


laffo

Quote:
Ever hear of alpha/focused strikes? If your fleet is a ragtag group and you got jumped, yeah, you gotta kill the tackle and GTFO, but if you are in a large coordinated fleet battle (150+ per side) and you are shooting whatever you want for killmails, you are reducing the alpha DPS of the fleet and reducing the likelyhood of your fleet winning the battle.


Because major fleet battles hinge on one minute of focused fire, right? And we know people never warp out in fleet battles, sheer madness. They stay on grid, slugging it out, regardless of how bad their position becomes.

Quote:
I'd guess Fleet targets in this order: EWar | Logistics | DPS/Dictors/Tackle.


If you don't know, why guess?

Quote:
I'm not a fleet FC


I can tell.

Quote:
but your rules might apply in small gang combat if the situation called for it.


Tell that to DarkSide. 15-25 dudes consistently winning against two, three, five times their number tells me they are doing something right.

Quote:
BTW, what alliance has your main flown with? I'd love to know who's FCs don't target call for the most common DPS ships like BCs (hello drakeblob!)


I left sov 0.0 and large fleet action before Drakes were FOTM. RRBS were just being shown as beatable, AHACs were the big thing and they were considered uncounterable. SE, Atlas, a few others, etc.

SmallGang Bandit
Posted - 2011.01.21 15:37:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: SmallGang Bandit on 21/01/2011 15:37:33
Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: SmallGang Bandit
Obvious troll - or sadly inexperienced in large fleet battles.


laffo

Quote:
Ever hear of alpha/focused strikes? If your fleet is a ragtag group and you got jumped, yeah, you gotta kill the tackle and GTFO, but if you are in a large coordinated fleet battle (150+ per side) and you are shooting whatever you want for killmails, you are reducing the alpha DPS of the fleet and reducing the likelyhood of your fleet winning the battle.


Because major fleet battles hinge on one minute of focused fire, right? And we know people never warp out in fleet battles, sheer madness. They stay on grid, slugging it out, regardless of how bad their position becomes.

...

I left sov 0.0 and large fleet action before Drakes were FOTM. RRBS were just being shown as beatable, AHACs were the big thing and they were considered uncounterable. SE, Atlas, a few others, etc.


So you haven't flown in 0.0 combat fleets basically in over 6 months, almost a year.

Without a solid alpha strike and focused fire, the lag-proof(ish) Drake/Scimi fleet will rep your haphazard damage and wipe the floor with you. Lately, with the increased skillpoint base in 0.0 fleets good logistics are pretty common, and the best way to beat logistics is to alpha the opponent so they can't rep your target.

Here's another thought (back on the actual topic of the thread). So what if frigates can be one-shotted? A decent T2 fit Inty/AF will set you back maybe 25 million. That's what, 30 minutes ratting in 0.0? About the same cost as a T2-fit T1 cruiser, and (although you and I disagree) it's not as likely to be a primary unless the poor fool is names Adam or Zeross.

As for Darkside. (since this is your reference) I'm looking at their stats - which are good - but I don't see a lot of large fleet action, which is what the original poster was asking about. I see a lot of frigate fights less than 15 folks on one side, but I'm not seeing a lot of BIG fleets. I'd guess that's because with no sovereign space and only 400+/- toons in the alliance they probably don't get 150+ guys in a fleet very often.

Small gang warfare is a completely different beast than sovereign 0.0 fleet war. One frankly I am happier to fly in, but not the topic of the OP. The tactics are different. Completely different. But hey, continue to believe that you are the authority on how to FC a large fleet in EVE. Maybe someday you'll be lucky enough to welp a fleet of 200 battleships while targeting the opponent's light tackle. Rolling Eyes

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.22 03:12:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: SmallGang Bandit
So you haven't flown in 0.0 combat fleets basically in over 6 months, almost a year.


You could count the number of large (50 or more on each side) fleet fights I have been in on one hand, since then, but **** if I don't at least keep current.

Quote:
Here's another thought (back on the actual topic of the thread). So what if frigates can be one-shotted? A decent T2 fit Inty/AF will set you back maybe 25 million. That's what, 30 minutes ratting in 0.0? About the same cost as a T2-fit T1 cruiser, and (although you and I disagree) it's not as likely to be a primary unless the poor fool is names Adam or Zeross.


Assuming they do, in fact survive, through fitting or piloting skill or magical fairy dust that keeps transversal high to everyone on-grid, what do they do? Fleets fight in mass bubbles. Even when not bubbled, you get kills because pilots broadcast and don't even both aligning out.

Quote:
As for Darkside. (since this is your reference) I'm looking at their stats - which are good - but I don't see a lot of large fleet action, which is what the original poster was asking about. I see a lot of frigate fights less than 15 folks on one side, but I'm not seeing a lot of BIG fleets. I'd guess that's because with no sovereign space and only 400+/- toons in the alliance they probably don't get 150+ guys in a fleet very often.


Yeah, that was a bad example. I just like using DS, because they have an excellent killboard and, every time I fought them, every single ****ing time, they killed fast tackle right off the bat. The only kills we'd ever get were due to lucky scrams or Gallente/Minmatar recons getting them pinned.

Quote:
But hey, continue to believe that you are the authority on how to FC a large fleet in EVE. Maybe someday you'll be lucky enough to welp a fleet of 200 battleships while targeting the opponent's light tackle. Rolling Eyes


Do you think I'm alone in holding this opinion?

Voridor Malevolence
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.22 04:17:00 - [16]
 

Tackle!

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.01.22 13:03:00 - [17]
 

Killing stragglers is always fun.

Wensley
Minmatar
Matari Exodus
Posted - 2011.01.25 14:40:00 - [18]
 

Interceptors are a lot of fun to fly in fleet fights and very useful. Yes, the support fleet will try and kill you at every possible opportunity but there are a lot of things that you do while you're alive, not just tackling. Its been a while since I flew a 'ceptor in a fleet fight but off the top of my head you will provide intel in neighbouring systems, tackle on gates, aligned warp outs for your fleet, warp ins for dictors, and lots of other useful jobs.

If you want to stay alive then the thing to do is not to spend the entire fight buzzing around the enemy fleet. As soon as the fight starts make yourself some safe spots. At least one on grid and one off grid. Use the on grid safespots to get an overview of the fight and look for things that need tackling. Your initial objective is to get points on hostile tackle amongst your fleet so that your support cane clear it. Once your fleet is free and hopefully starting to win the engagement you can turn your eyes on the hostile fleet. Ideally you will be working with a dictor pilot or two and you can swoop in to the hostiles, get a warp in for your dictor, and then warp out again back to your safe. As the fight turns in your favour you will hopefully have started to win the support fight as well and can start tackling primaries, secondaries, and anyone outside of a bubble. Oh, the offgrid safe is for times of high lag. By warping there you can often clear any module lag and catch your breath. Don't dive straight back in but use your on grid safe to make sure everything loads first.

So yes, lots of useful things to do in an interceptor and if you don't just burn around pell mell you will be able to be useful to your fleet for far longer. If you start seeing lots of yellow or red boxes its time to GTFO to your safe. You will die often. Sometimes more than once in one fight but it is a lot more fun than shooting primaries and trying to cycle guns.

Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.01.26 07:13:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Killing stragglers


Can't beat a frigate blob for ganking stragglers. +1

dAhAmbUrglA
Paxton Industries
Posted - 2011.01.28 15:21:00 - [20]
 

A smaller support fleet of 15+ bombers can turn the tide of a fleet battle if FC'ed correctly. Especially in bs fleet fights, a successful bombing run can instapop some battleships, heavily damage others and put a huge dent in the EHP of the enemy fleet. Of course, the competence of the enemy FC is also a factor in whether you can get a good bombing run off or not.

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2011.01.30 15:57:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 30/01/2011 16:05:16
Quote:
If your FC is targeting frigates first, enjoy losing a lot of battles as your DPS is slaughtered by your opponent.
People will stick a set of warriors on a frig while they hit the prim just for an extra KM. If the primary and secondary are out of range, which happens on occassion ,i will try to find a frig in range. But generally the order goes light tanks heavy ganks(or logis/ECM) and then works towards low dps/ high tank. Tis why drakes in a mixed fleet are typically the last called primary.

OP: Frigates are used in 0.0 fleets. Their usefulness is limited.

-Intys are used as scouts and fast tackle. But in 0.0 we prefer bubbles as our primary warp disruption. And many 0.0( any ship type) fits will have a point. Still intys are useful for catching fast ships and running around nabbing stragglers on the field.
-Bombers are also used as scouts and as dps support as well.
-Dictors, which are destroyers and not frigs, are heavily used.


So yes they are useful just plan on buying many of them.

Originally by: Wensley
Interceptors are a lot of fun to fly in fleet fights and very useful.....


This, Seems like Wensley knows the job well.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.01.31 11:47:00 - [22]
 

the first 2 purposes for cheap T1 frigates is suicide tackling and providing warp ins on an enemy fleet.

Murq
Deep Space Expedition.
Posted - 2011.01.31 17:02:00 - [23]
 

Frigates are stupid.

Use interdictors in 0.0.

Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:03:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Murq
Frigates are stupid.

Use interdictors in 0.0.


Discouraging newb pvpers isn't the way to go

Murq
Deep Space Expedition.
Posted - 2011.01.31 19:23:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Aessoroz
Originally by: Murq
Frigates are stupid.

Use interdictors in 0.0.


Discouraging newb pvpers isn't the way to go


True.

Rifter or bust...

Else, T2 approved frigates are bombers... and a limited selection of insta-lock ceptors.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.02.01 04:19:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Aessoroz
Originally by: Murq
Frigates are stupid.

Use interdictors in 0.0.


Discouraging newb pvpers isn't the way to go


Newb pvpers being in fights a grand total of 30 seconds before exploding is even more discouraging than "wait three weeks until you can get into a Drake or a Hurricane."

Bud Johnson
Broski Enterprises
Posted - 2011.02.01 05:53:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: Aessoroz
Originally by: Murq
Frigates are stupid.

Use interdictors in 0.0.


Discouraging newb pvpers isn't the way to go


Newb pvpers being in fights a grand total of 30 seconds before exploding is even more discouraging than "wait three weeks until you can get into a Drake or a Hurricane."


True. Assuming the newbie in question is butthurt and or mad.

Exordium8
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.02.01 08:23:00 - [28]
 

Speaking of newbies in rifters, here's a little something from our latest battle:

We recentally captured the 6VDT station in 0.0. It is going to be named “6VDTackled by Aceites rifter” in honor of a TEST newbie hero who burned 300km in a rifter to tackle a Sabre during the siege.In typical space communist fashion the rifter hero was made to X in local and then everyone donated to this mans hero rifter fund. He made 350+ mil and was elated, stating: “OMG I love this game I’m going to tackle for you forever.”

We love our hero rifters.

Devil tiger
Posted - 2011.02.01 08:27:00 - [29]
 

T1 Frigates & bombers are great as scouts for bigger fleets.

If there's only a few reds,the frigs can nail the enemy until the main fleet arrives and if there's too many they can run and with luck the other fleet chases you right in to your fleets lap.

And sometimes you run into trap with your frig, but so? It's only 10-20 mill tops to lose. I.E perfect for noobs & other inexperienced ppl as they lose almost nothing if they screw up and die.

NinjaSpud
Posted - 2011.02.02 17:10:00 - [30]
 

The best times i've had in 0.0 where medium sized frig roams...20 frigs are devistating. We took out an abaddan undocking from a station, before he had a chance to redock.


 

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