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blankseplocked PI - things to fix/tweak after the update
 
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Teh Minez0r
Posted - 2011.01.18 23:01:00 - [1]
 

1. Launchpads and Storage facilities both need 700 power load. While you never ever come even close to the CPU limit of a command center, you will always use launchpads for storage as they can hold 10k m instead of the 5k m of a storage facility. Makes no sense imho and storage facilities just useless. See point 2 how to fix this.

2. With the ECUs, there's a lack of a command's center power output now. Before the update I was able to produce enough raw materials (23h cycles all of em) with extractors to fill 6 basic processors permanently (+ some stored raw materials), that again filled 3 advanced processors permanently. Now I can't even set up a 3rd ECU to extract a 3rd raw material - and I'm talkin about low sec planets, in this case 0.2 + elite command centers. And here is my suggestion how to fix this. As the ECU itself is the "brain" of the extracting process, it shouldn't use 2600mw power but imho an ECU should use 2600 of CPU. Like that the problem with using launchpads as storage facilities wouldn't be that easy neither.

Whatever you do, I'd like to be able to produce the PI stuff as I was able to before the patch.

Thanks in advance. :)

Tha Tyger
Minmatar
Legionari
Posted - 2011.01.18 23:37:00 - [2]
 

I seem to have way to much CPU and far to little powergrid with the new system Confused

Before I could harvest 3 to 4 raw materials on a planet in pretty good ratio to produce 2 types 2nd tier materials of a planet. Now I can get a best of 2 raw materials of the same planet. This has really crippled my carefully planned PI production process to the point that I can no longer create wetware mainframes using 5 planets and second best control centers (granted in fairly high sec, but it worked before Confused) Sad

Am I missing out on something? Did the harvesters get such a large boost that 1 harvester can now replace 6 old once? It really feels like PI has been nerfed quite badly. Please enlighten me.

Rob Ert1
Posted - 2011.01.19 00:06:00 - [3]
 

I'm not happy. This so called fix has completly screwed up my PI. I had 4 planets all producing robotics. I was making 12 to 36 a day. I can't seem to even get the extractors to produce the 4 minerals needed to even make 1 a cycle. You made the CPU on the extractor to high.

Teh Minez0r
Posted - 2011.01.19 02:17:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Tha Tyger
I seem to have way to much CPU and far to little powergrid with the new system Confused

Before I could harvest 3 to 4 raw materials on a planet in pretty good ratio to produce 2 types 2nd tier materials of a planet. Now I can get a best of 2 raw materials of the same planet. This has really crippled my carefully planned PI production process to the point that I can no longer create wetware mainframes using 5 planets and second best control centers (granted in fairly high sec, but it worked before Confused) Sad

Am I missing out on something? Did the harvesters get such a large boost that 1 harvester can now replace 6 old once? It really feels like PI has been nerfed quite badly. Please enlighten me.

That's what it was before already, u didn't need that much cpu, not even if u used spaceports as storage facilities.
imho the power usage of a ECU should be cpu usage and vice versa.

RightMan Shi
Posted - 2011.01.19 04:45:00 - [5]
 

Noted and confirmed, I had deployed a lvl 4 CC and had P3 Robotics line going on a Plasma planet.

With a lvl 4 CC it supported the following:
5 Extractors pulling 4 different resources
8 Basic Industry, 2 per raw material.
3 Advanced Industry, 2x P2, 1x P3

After patch, logged in.
First thing, upgraded my CC to lvl 6. Saved.
Removed Existing Extractors and started placing new Extractors in closer proximity to the Launchpad(central point), Created the new links. I was only able to get 3 ExCU in, was not able to get the 4th. Error: This would use too much Power. --This limit was reached before I could even try to add HEAD units to the ExCU.

The point of this type of production is that I could set a 5 hour extraction for all necessary resouces and all the routes would create the final P3 product until resources were depleted.

I have Screenshots available for CCP of what is existing and the new changes I am trying to make if they might be useful.

BinaryData
Gallente
Segmentum Solar
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2011.01.19 05:09:00 - [6]
 

Why not have skills that increase how much you can possibly get?

With mining I know you can get "Veldspar Processing", which gives you better refining and what not, does it not?

Why not add something like this into the PI System?

Ionic Development - 1% more yield.

We only have like 4 or 5 skills for the PI in total, in my opinion, this section of the game lacks too much. Almost to the point of not even bothering with it. A lot of people are talking about it in The Scope chat saying it sucks now, to an extent. I'm inclined to agree with them. Before I could mass produce things like Robotics, now I have to use 2 planets to get the same product, with more work. Sorry for the ranting, just stating; we need more options than what we currently have :)

Rob Ert1
Posted - 2011.01.19 06:17:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Rob Ert1 on 19/01/2011 06:18:27
Sucks isn't the word for it. First the screwed with the Robotics price by starting the PI then they go and do this. CCP what is you end goal? ****ing us off?
Originally by: BinaryData
Why not have skills that increase how much you can possibly get?

With mining I know you can get "Veldspar Processing", which gives you better refining and what not, does it not?

Why not add something like this into the PI System?

Ionic Development - 1% more yield.

We only have like 4 or 5 skills for the PI in total, in my opinion, this section of the game lacks too much. Almost to the point of not even bothering with it. A lot of people are talking about it in The Scope chat saying it sucks now, to an extent. I'm inclined to agree with them. Before I could mass produce things like Robotics, now I have to use 2 planets to get the same product, with more work. Sorry for the ranting, just stating; we need more options than what we currently have :)


Zikic
Posted - 2011.01.19 07:21:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Rob Ert1
I'm not happy. This so called fix has completly screwed up my PI. I had 4 planets all producing robotics. I was making 12 to 36 a day. I can't seem to even get the extractors to produce the 4 minerals needed to even make 1 a cycle. You made the CPU on the extractor to high.



Same problem here. I can't reproduce what I did before. Why can't each extractor be able to pull out different materials? Currently they all must yank out the same thing.

Generally, extracted mineral output is way down from before... and IMO PI has become kind of useless with these changes. To do robotics (mentioned above) you basically need to extract 2 types of mats on one cycle, then extract 2 different mats the next cycle. And of course you need to reconfigure all your routes, schematics etc each time so it ends up being even MORE mouse clicks (and a bigger PITA) than it was before.

Haas Tabris
Posted - 2011.01.19 08:15:00 - [9]
 

agreed with you guys. this patch pretty much wrecks pi. and pi wasn't all that much fun to begin with, really. yes, i can set up a planet to run for 14 days. great. but i can't harvest more than 2 materials per planet AND run processors on them at the same time. ugh. one step forward, one step back as usual.

Tha Tyger
Minmatar
Legionari
Posted - 2011.01.19 10:04:00 - [10]
 

I'd love to know if this was an intended nerf to boost market prices of PI materials. At this point it's the only reason I can think of to justify the radical redesign.

On a positive note, upgradeable command centers are a great addition. Have asked for them before, and got them, so I want to give CCP kudos for picking that up. Now for a reply on this issue please.

Erin Hommes
Posted - 2011.01.19 10:25:00 - [11]
 

Suddenly my setup 5 accounts and spam POS fuels for profit idea doesn't seem so smart anymore.

Lamiel Warpstorm
Posted - 2011.01.19 10:35:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Lamiel Warpstorm on 19/01/2011 10:40:10
I have the same Problem. I spend Hours optimizing my PI with the "old" System. I have several Planets with 7 Extractors and 11 Basic Industry Facility and two Launchpads. All placed as dense as possible. All Extractors where positioned as close as possible around a Raw Material Hot Spot.

With 4 5Hour Cycles each Day i could harvest more Raw Material that was nessesary to fill my Raw Material Launchpad. With 3 5Hour Cycles each Day it was a bit less than the dayly need. The Raw Material Launchpad was used to buffer that.

Now with the Extractor Control Center the Extractors cant be positioned as close as before. They would overlap with reduced output or an much larger Area is covered wich also results in a much lower output. Even with 4 Hour Cycles i can barely get the 66.000 Units Raw Material per Hour that would be needed to feed all my Basic Industry.

Nice Nerf !

Nisshoku
Posted - 2011.01.19 11:10:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Erin Hommes
Suddenly my setup 5 accounts and spam POS fuels for profit idea doesn't seem so smart anymore.



buy plex instead :P

Lamiel Warpstorm
Posted - 2011.01.19 12:55:00 - [14]
 

I looked deeper into the Extractor thing and i think its broken :

My first Layout was 6 Extractors with the following "Raw Output Quality Index" : 191.69, 192.66, 189.58, 183.64, 185.01, 192.56, 189.68

this Numbers result with a 4 Hour Cycle resulted in 46940 per Hour and 187762 total.
an 3 Hour Cycle is even worse with 46901 per Hour.

Now i moved the Extractors a bit around and at some points i got some Spikes at the Start of the Graph and now the "Raw Output Quality Index" : 175.31, 188.32, 187.03, 183.64, 174.98, 177.33, 181.95

This spike was only on certain points of the Map and to me it looked like they where only one pixel Size. The next Strange thing was that placing one Extractor at the Spike and moving another Extractor did break the Spike and i had to move it back ( I placed the Extractors all on the Maximum distance to make positioning easyer).

now this Numbers with a 4 Hour Cycle resulted in 57292 per Hour and 229169 total. Strange as the second set is lower than the first one.

even this Numbers are far away from my pre Expansion Values of over 66000 per Hour in a 5Hour Cycle.

And the best part is that after Starting the Program the Values of the Second example drop down to 51142 per Hour and 204571 total.

But starting the Program is not starting it really. You have to commit these changes on the Build Menu. Otherwise its also possible to cancel the Program.

At first i thought this will be less clicking but the more i get into it it seems to be only random numbers that will force you to move the extractors around to search for good Spots. Even more clicking and less planable PI Infrastructure.

Haldan Shepherd
Posted - 2011.01.19 13:03:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Haldan Shepherd on 19/01/2011 13:03:55
I noticed that placing some Extractors and then add a new one can drop the Output per Hour and overall Output.

Funesta
Posted - 2011.01.19 15:58:00 - [16]
 

Light blue circles on a white background is my doom!

Please change the extractor head circles to be a different color than light blue. Ideally, the color should contrast strongly with white, red, orange, and yellow - the color of the hotspots I am placing the extractor heads on. As it is, I try to put down a bunch of extractor heads on a white hotspot and I can't see the circle at all, and I can't see where it's overlapping with the other extractor heads at all.

As a suggestion, just put a dark blue or black outline around my extractor head circles while I'm trying to place them.

Additionally, it would be nice to know if I'm overloading my links before I install the program, or it would be nice if the link would just throw out the excess goods rather than an entire extractor's worth of goods.

Morphiana
Caldari
Industrial Legion of EVE
STR8NGE BREW
Posted - 2011.01.19 16:20:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Morphiana on 19/01/2011 17:28:37
Planetary Interaction NERF

To whom it may concern:

We have been robbed of nearly 4000 MW of power by forcing us to use a head unit, which its power grid use isn't completely dynamic to the number of extractors it runs.

All of my planet set ups are now defunct and have to be completely redone and to boot are less productive by 50%, further more the only way to complete the same processing amount on my planets is to import and export items heavily, increasing the cost of PI as well as the time wasted flying around space. I also now have to dedicate one of my planets to just processing, for P2-P4.

Also, its nice that you give a refund for the extractors, but since my PI clusters were sorted in distance by the amount of strain the put on the links, all my processing units have to be removed and placed differently as well. I.E. surrounding my launch pad were extractors, all linked in a star pattern to the launch pad. My processing units were then placed out side the circle of extractors and then linked to my extractors. This was the most efficent pattern to use for planetary links.

Planetary Interaction needs to be rectified, and the only way I see it happening is to make the CPU and POWER GRID of the head extractor unit completely DYNAMIC to the number of extractors being used. Take into account the fact that you have to create a large link between your ECU and your destination dump for materials.

I consider this new PI format a NERF, not an improvement.

Regards,

Morph

RightMan Shi
Posted - 2011.01.19 16:25:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Funesta
...Additionally, it would be nice to know if I'm overloading my links before I install the program, or it would be nice if the link would just throw out the excess goods rather than an entire extractor's worth of goods.
This is done during the route process, though a manual process. When you are a creating the route it will show % of link used, say 112% on the link(in red) and 7509/7509 is shown in the bottom left corner of the route window. Adjusting this to 6545/7509 would reduce the route throughput enough to push the material through, discarding that extra 12%.

- Automatic? I disagree, knowing and understanding when I am wasting material is crucial to me. Indicates when I might use that last bit of CPU to upgrade the link or just accept the loss.

Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.01.19 16:34:00 - [19]
 

+1

Crazy Kalibanov
Gallente
Grey Templars
Posted - 2011.01.19 16:52:00 - [20]
 

I agree with earlier posters. I am unable to produce as much from my planets as I was before the patch. Please fix this or put it back the way it was.

Cain Leigh
Caldari
Raptor Navy
STR8NGE BREW
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:03:00 - [21]
 

+1

Dinamo
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:10:00 - [22]
 

+1

Burnt Woodie
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:13:00 - [23]
 

+1 Fix PI, halt the NERF, you just created an artifical spike in PI POS fuel costs, anyone buying PI POS fuel, is going to get their wallet ****d.

Fix it and fast, before the market fall out.

wormhole surfing
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:18:00 - [24]
 

Is PI even worth doing anymore with this current upgarde? might be worth starting over again and relooking at it

blackdeath111
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:22:00 - [25]
 

I fully endorse the thread on this topic of planet interaction, even with elite command centers your taking a massive hit in production rate! Unless it is CCP's intention to make it harder thus making it more of a pain, which increases the price of products produced by PI.

we shall see the outcome..........

Berikath
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:25:00 - [26]
 

3. Upgradable launchpads... i.e.-

Launchpad level 1: Same as current launchpad. (700 pg; whocares CPU; 10,000 m3 storage; 900,000 ISK price)

Launchpad level 2: Everything is doubled. (1400 pg; whocares * 2 CPU; 20,000 m3 storage; 900k ISK upgrade cost, 1.8m total cost)

Launchpad level 3: Trippled (2100 pg; whocares * 3 CPU; 30,000 m3 storage; 900k upgrade cost, 2.7m total cost)


Yes, you'll need fewer links, but you'll need to upgrade more of them... I mean, it could even include rebalancing link costs slightly so lvl 2 is twice the space and exactly twice the cost, I don't care. It would really just make sense to be able to have a launchpad which can store the same amount as the customs office, so all materials can be moved in 2 transfers instead of 6.


Side note- renting more space in customs offices would be nice too. The things are huge, you'd think they'd love to rent 1-200k m3 of space for... say, a couple million ISK a month.

Akyara's Sister
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:36:00 - [27]
 

+1

Pyle Driver
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:48:00 - [28]
 

@ Berikath,


Why would you upgrade a launch pad if you don't get any benefit or discount on the power grid or cpu? In other words it going to cost you the same to just build another, minus of course the link cost...

The issue is we are now getting far less from our PI, with more complicated input, more leg work. Thats effectively called a nerf as it was said before.

I am all for an upgradeable launch pad, but there should be an advantage to using an upgrade, like less grid or cpu.

Other issue is the site depleation in this patch seems to be coming at a higher rate. Depleating the resources of a given ECU area, therefore is becomes an issue, do you allow a higher grid use for a longer, bigger link when moving the ECU, or do you tear all your stuff down and move? isk vrs convenience...

Wedge Tigre
Posted - 2011.01.19 17:58:00 - [29]
 

+1

Suoh Amshar
Amarr
Grid Square Removal System
Posted - 2011.01.19 18:01:00 - [30]
 

+1 here. I've definitely noticed that its now prohibitively difficult to harvest more than 2 resources on any individual planet. ECU costs way too much PG. Lower it by a lot. Maybe increase the cost of heads or the cpu cost to the point where it might actually mean something. It's pointless to have 2 values where you never have to worry about one maxing before the other.

Right now my original plan for PI is screwed because I cant harvest the resources I need. I'll probably just go harvest a bunch of oxygen or something like that while I wait for this to be fixed. Also I liked the idea of having more PI skills to tweak this stuff


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