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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.01.17 15:56:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 17/01/2011 20:26:39

So there I was, scrolling through the Recruitment section and low and behold there are still NRDS entities trying to get a foothold somewhere, anywhere and be relevant to someone, somehow...




I have surmised that NRDS might work if there were far less people, corporations and entities playing EVE Online. Like if there were 5=10K on everyday instead of 45K (and ever growing) I don't know when CVA started their "Operation Deliverance" because I was not playing the game back then (or just wasn't paying attention)


I am now a little curious as to whether of not the origin of NRDS's comes from a time when there were allot less people logging in to EVE Online on a daily basis?




/Me thinks out loud.

Keta Fraal
Nul and Booleans
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:03:00 - [2]
 

Why shouldn't their be NERD Corporation thriving and multiplying throughout EvE?

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:05:00 - [3]
 

I don't have a problem with it, but I see it as a slight problem in that the other side can just get a neutral alt to spy around where the other side can't.

Nicholas Barker
Deez Nuts.
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:16:00 - [4]
 

NRDS implies unsecured boarders.

A smart person would clearly define their boarders, but invite people to enter as long as they request to enter first. It's called diplomacy.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:30:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Joe Skellington
I don't have a problem with it, but I see it as a slight problem in that the other side can just get a neutral alt to spy around where the other side can't.

As if blue spies where that much less spying around.. LaughingLaughingLaughing

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:30:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Rodj Blake on 17/01/2011 16:30:29
Operation Deliverance was announced in November 2004, but the CVA and PIE have been doing the NRDS thing since May 2003.

I don't think that the number of people playing the game has much direct bearing on the effectiveness of NRDS, but obviously it becomes harder to effectively maintain a KOS list as the game develops.

Mr Mvoice
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:35:00 - [7]
 

NRDS -

it has pro's and con's..

Pro's,
When Provi was maintained by CVA it had "NRDS" policy, for very poor region it was benificial I guess, ppl who docked payed for services, income was generated to maintain sov. For corps going out there, it was easy, you did not have to become renter, participate in constant CTA's as with most alliances, but you could reduce the cost of docking, using services, ect. . by participation / diplomacy. NRDS, is good for new players getting there first tast of 0.0

Con's,
Spy's, Spy's, Spy's... and as Sov holder in NRDS space you cant rely on any of the Alliances / Corps that live in your space to support you in time of need. CVA certainly got the tast of that. And many of the Corps in your space are alt corps of the attacking entity, providing intel, save havens, repair, and supply's.

Can it thrive, or have place in today's EVE - No, personally I think its dead.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.17 16:43:00 - [8]
 

Living by NRDS is Eve on hard-mode. Requires and fosters trust, patience, people skills et al.

Basically all the things that the internet is short on.

It is the last great challenge left in Eve.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:03:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 17/01/2011 16:30:29
Operation Deliverance was announced in November 2004, but the CVA and PIE have been doing the NRDS thing since May 2003.

I don't think that the number of people playing the game has much direct bearing on the effectiveness of NRDS, but obviously it becomes harder to effectively maintain a KOS list as the game develops.



Thx for the info.


Well BC says you were around in 04, about how many people were online every day?
Were you involved with Pie back then?
If so, how would you compare the NRDS environment of 04 with present day NRDS?




Ninja Edit:

Am I actually asking questions and gathers informed opinions?!

Yes I Think I Am! Not On Meh E-FORUMS!!!! RAAWWRRR!!!



Rosalina Sarinna
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:14:00 - [10]
 

I always liked NRDS policies; as an indy char its nice to have an option to utilize other space, constellations, and even regions nearby your own. Strangely I have the opposite view to the OP, that NRDS would be far more likely the higher the 0.0 population gets. Its simply not logical for even a big Corp to keep a number of systems nailed down shut shooting every non-blue 24/7 if the population is high; as the benefits of leaving those neutral alive (local economy/trade/office rents etc) far outweighs any possibility of spies. Lets face it anyway, a blue spy is far more harmful than a neutral spy ever was - so take the rough with the smooth, let the few of them that exist live there, and make your regional market the envy of 0.0 space.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:16:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Rodj Blake on 17/01/2011 17:18:26
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 17/01/2011 16:30:29
Operation Deliverance was announced in November 2004, but the CVA and PIE have been doing the NRDS thing since May 2003.

I don't think that the number of people playing the game has much direct bearing on the effectiveness of NRDS, but obviously it becomes harder to effectively maintain a KOS list as the game develops.



Thx for the info.


Well BC says you were around in 04, about how many people were online every day?
Were you involved with Pie back then?
If so, how would you compare the NRDS environment of 04 with present day NRDS?




Ninja Edit:

Am I actually asking questions and gathers informed opinions?!

Yes I Think I Am! Not On Meh E-FORUMS!!!! RAAWWRRR!!!





I've been in PIE since late '03 (when the number of users was peaking at around 5,000 IIRC), and the arguments for and against NRDS have remained more or less the same in all that time. People have always argued that it just doesn't work, despite the successes of the likes of CVA, Star Fraction and Ushra'Khan.

Also, back then the vast majority of 0.0 corps were using NBSI, just like today.

What NRDS boils down to is the belief that you don't make as many friends if you open fire on everyone you come across.

Tom Gerard
Caldari
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:18:00 - [12]
 

Northern Coalition superseded NRDS for most players.

CVA and NRDS was all that made Providence valuable, without them its wasteland.
However, Ev0ke may restore Providence to valuable space, they are looking good so far.

Dominion eliminated the concept of worthless space, so CVA was no longer required.


Gavjack Bunk
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:23:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Gavjack Bunk on 17/01/2011 17:23:40
With competition for resource at an all time low and no penalty for death that anybody cares about, there's never been a better time to kill absolutely everything that moves and cooperate with nobody.

Dozens of wars, trillions of isk destroyed, and there is still more isk than there ever was, still more materials than there ever was and more and bigger ships than there ever was.

The ecology has no reason to balance or attempt to preserve itself, an endless cycle of kill and die, kill and die.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:26:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 17/01/2011 17:26:16
Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna
I always liked NRDS policies; as an indy char its nice to have an option to utilize other space, constellations, and even regions nearby your own. Strangely I have the opposite view to the OP, that NRDS would be far more likely the higher the 0.0 population gets. Its simply not logical for even a big Corp to keep a number of systems nailed down shut shooting every non-blue 24/7 if the population is high; as the benefits of leaving those neutral alive (local economy/trade/office rents etc) far outweighs any possibility of spies. Lets face it anyway, a blue spy is far more harmful than a neutral spy ever was - so take the rough with the smooth, let the few of them that exist live there, and make your regional market the envy of 0.0 space.



If you could only see how much ISK changes hands at the heart of some of the biggest alliances in EVE... they have absolutely no need for a regional market ISK well.


It is measured not in 100's of billions but in 100's of Trillions.
And so, this perspective is highly uninformed.

Josefius
Gallente
JOKAS Industries
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:26:00 - [15]
 

Doesn't Chribba have a similar policy?

Originally by: Rosalina Sarinna
I always liked NRDS policies; as an indy char its nice to have an option to utilize other space, constellations, and even regions nearby your own. Strangely I have the opposite view to the OP, that NRDS would be far more likely the higher the 0.0 population gets. Its simply not logical for even a big Corp to keep a number of systems nailed down shut shooting every non-blue 24/7 if the population is high; as the benefits of leaving those neutral alive (local economy/trade/office rents etc) far outweighs any possibility of spies. Lets face it anyway, a blue spy is far more harmful than a neutral spy ever was - so take the rough with the smooth, let the few of them that exist live there, and make your regional market the envy of 0.0 space.

Sazkyen
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:28:00 - [16]
 

The latest trend is BBSA. Blue But Shoot Anyway.

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:30:00 - [17]
 

One major problem with NRDS: when trying to establish yourself as an entity, having an "Ask first, shoot later" policy could be detrimental to the enemy's "Shoot first, ask never" policy. Get the space first, then implement your NRDS policy, and it could work.

I will say the intel network of CVA was massive. 3 or 4 different intel channels along with a huge openly available and editable (By CEOs I think) KOS list. I know other alliances have this, but it helps even more when the number of players providing intel is in the "epic" for proportions. There were spies, but since CVA was not an aggressive alliance trying to capture more space, spies didn't really cause a problem.

It wasn't until they tried to boot AAA that they got spanked.

Rosalina Sarinna
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Tertius
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:33:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 17/01/2011 17:26:16
If you could only see how much ISK changes hands at the heart of some of the biggest alliances in EVE... they have absolutely no need for a regional market ISK well.

It is measured not in 100's of billions but in 100's of Trillions.
And so, this perspective is highly uninformed.


You're assuming the alliance doesn't give a toss about their systems' associated markets. That may well be how things are in many places, or even all of the major alliances, but its not how it should be in my opinion. Just because you don't "need" the market generated ISK doesn't remove the fact it would be a beneficial thing to the whole region.

Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:35:00 - [19]
 

Empire and Jita is there present regional market...


Most people are aware of this, as they are aware of the fact that 90% of EVE live in Empire.


Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:47:00 - [20]
 

I don't shoot anyone regardless of color Smile

Erin Eraser
Posted - 2011.01.17 17:53:00 - [21]
 

They're role players who are role playing good guys usually anyone with negative secutiry status is shoot on sight. Star Fraction is an example of one of them. They joined minmattar FW and would just **** everyone even on their own side who was negative. They would scan out blue fleets hiding from reds and come in and slaughter everyone who was below 0

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:14:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Culmen on 17/01/2011 18:18:46
Originally by: Rodj Blake

What NRDS boils down to is the belief that you don't make as many friends if you open fire on everyone you come across.


Yet CVA got rolled by a large power block, with no significant allies in sight....

Guess the bad guys made more friend somehow...

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:29:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 17/01/2011 18:18:46
Originally by: Rodj Blake

What NRDS boils down to is the belief that you don't make as many friends if you open fire on everyone you come across.


Yet CVA got rolled by a large power block, with no significant allies in sight....

Guess the bad guys made more friend somehow...


Not that I follow 0.0 politics, but as far as I know CVA had quite a few allies..it's just that the combined force of them and all their allies wasn't enough to stop them from exploding.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:38:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 17/01/2011 18:18:46
Originally by: Rodj Blake

What NRDS boils down to is the belief that you don't make as many friends if you open fire on everyone you come across.


Yet CVA got rolled by a large power block, with no significant allies in sight....

Guess the bad guys made more friend somehow...


Not that I follow 0.0 politics, but as far as I know CVA had quite a few allies..it's just that the combined force of them and all their allies wasn't enough to stop them from exploding.


QED.
If they were so good at making friends, how is it that they didn't have enough allies when push came to shove.

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:41:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Chribba
I don't shoot anyone regardless of color Smile


That is, unless it's the color of veldspar. In which case, you unleash the full fury of the veld fleet.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.01.17 18:51:00 - [26]
 

NRDS corps and alliances in low and nullsec just open themselves up for attack. I don't see any reason it wouldn't work for some but it won't for most. Pirates are more likely to hunt in NRDS systems than NBSI systems for the obvious reasons.

Skavirr
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:30:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Skavirr on 17/01/2011 19:30:40
Edited by: Skavirr on 17/01/2011 19:30:30
I only kill blues usually. But then, I'm in Red Fed.

EDIT: Bah, accidental alt post!

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2011.01.17 19:55:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
low and beyond
I have a feeling two of those words are not what you were looking for.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.18 12:50:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Rodj Blake on 18/01/2011 12:50:58
Originally by: Culmen
Edited by: Culmen on 17/01/2011 18:18:46
Originally by: Rodj Blake

What NRDS boils down to is the belief that you don't make as many friends if you open fire on everyone you come across.


Yet CVA got rolled by a large power block, with no significant allies in sight....

Guess the bad guys made more friend somehow...


And yet despite that, CVA are still around.

How are -A- doing these days?

Mamba Lev
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.01.18 12:58:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Mamba Lev on 18/01/2011 13:04:04
Edited by: Mamba Lev on 18/01/2011 13:03:04
NRDS is a major pain in the ass and makes for a much harder time finding ships to shoot as well as many many hours of time that has to be put in maintaining the KOS list and diplomacy issues. When providence was owned by CVA it was a great place, noobs could get a taste of 0.0, always plenty of reds, there to shoot at the noobs and get duels and -A- would frequently train their FC's there as they knew they could almost always get a good fight. The things that sucked where the neutrals where like locusts with Plex's, any neutral could be an enemy and hordes of ***s from U'K in cloaking vagabonds roaming around shooting t1 fit ratting ships claiming they are leet pvp'ers.

All in all i would like to see Providence back to the way it was, mainly so i could have somewhere to go hunting when i got bored of ganking carebears, but i also think EVE as a whole would benefit for having this safeish 0.0 for new players to come play in..

Don't think it will ever happen, now you can upgrade space it's position with 3 empire entrances make it a very tasty bit of real estate. That and CVA's on going alienation of their allies and their major help coming from **** factor i just don't see it, but i doubt EVE will ever see the end of CVA..


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