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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.01.15 16:56:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Voith
I was hoping this would be something useful.

Like the fact that Lonetrek is bugged and you get low-sec/null-sec exploration sites even in .8 systems.


Its not a bug. The final part of Watch/Vigil is always in low sec for every pirate faction. Occasionally the earlier parts will send you through low sec to get to a part (usually if you start in a high sec island like the Ossa pocket.

The final parts of the Annexes in low sec are in 0.0 I believe as well.

Voith
Posted - 2011.01.15 17:08:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: XXSketchxx
Originally by: Voith
I was hoping this would be something useful.

Like the fact that Lonetrek is bugged and you get low-sec/null-sec exploration sites even in .8 systems.


Its not a bug. The final part of Watch/Vigil is always in low sec for every pirate faction. Occasionally the earlier parts will send you through low sec to get to a part (usually if you start in a high sec island like the Ossa pocket.

The final parts of the Annexes in low sec are in 0.0 I believe as well.


No I mean that in some Lonetrek systems you get Radar/mag/Exploration sites that should only spawn in low/nullsec.

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.01.15 17:14:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: XXSketchxx on 15/01/2011 17:14:43
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 15/01/2011 17:14:33
Originally by: Voith


No I mean that in some Lonetrek systems you get Radar/mag/Exploration sites that should only spawn in low/nullsec.


Ah okay, my mistake. I do know of one radar that spawns Battleships. How do you know that is a bug?

FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.01.15 17:16:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: De Guantanamo
Originally by: Spectre Wraith
tl;dr - You figured something out most pre-apoc explorers knew forever.


Thats funny cause this wasn't possible pre-Apoc Rolling Eyes

yes it was, but you needed to get a hit first with quest probes at least to figure out the signal strength

Voith
Posted - 2011.01.15 17:40:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: XXSketchxx
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 15/01/2011 17:14:43
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 15/01/2011 17:14:33
Originally by: Voith


No I mean that in some Lonetrek systems you get Radar/mag/Exploration sites that should only spawn in low/nullsec.


Ah okay, my mistake. I do know of one radar that spawns Battleships. How do you know that is a bug?

I'm not referring to the Local Gurista Life Support Array. True, it could be intentional, but I doubt it. More likely just more evidence of CCP's neglect of exploration.

Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.15 19:28:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Spectre Wraith on 15/01/2011 19:30:41
Edited by: Spectre Wraith on 15/01/2011 19:29:18
Originally by: De Guantanamo
Originally by: Spectre Wraith
tl;dr - You figured something out most pre-apoc explorers knew forever.


Thats funny cause this wasn't possible pre-Apoc Rolling Eyes


It wasn't "100% hit everytime" back then, you had to get a hit first, of course. Nearly every "old timer" that's been involved in exploration for any decent length of time has put 2 and 2 together and seen the correlation between sig strength and the actual site.

You also didn't need to use a DS probe to figure this out. Combat probes work just as well for this, once sigs begin to fall outside 75% or more of the probes radius the strength begins to dissipate. You can counter that by moving the probe to the outer planets for more accurate strength readings.

It's one of a number of tricks, tips, super-secret, exploration mechanics. Although I always considered it common sense...people that couldn't figure out that sig strength related to the site itself and that sites have specific strengths aren't the brightest anyways.

One of the best things about exploration is that the ones who invested the most time and found out all of the little tricks/methods deserved them. And there's still plenty of them. ;)

Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
Posted - 2011.01.15 21:39:00 - [37]
 

This is awesome information, thanks for that.

One question though: What about RSS probes? Do you plan to add them later?

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.01.15 21:47:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Zaknussem

One question though: What about RSS probes? Do you plan to add them later?


There is no reason to add RSS probes or sisters probes.

The faction core scanner versions would suffer the same results as regular Core scanner probes (described in the op) and the sisters deep space probes do not give an increase in strength.

trjcquee
Posted - 2011.01.15 22:41:00 - [39]
 

So where do you position the DSP? At the star, or as far away as possible while still covering all the planets? Does it matter?

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.01.15 23:20:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: XXSketchxx on 15/01/2011 23:21:01
Originally by: trjcquee
So where do you position the DSP? At the star, or as far away as possible while still covering all the planets? Does it matter?


My process is as follows

1. Jump into system
2. Align to next gate
3. Drop probe
4. Scan

If there is a signal I like

5. Deactivate DSP.
6. Swap to Core scanners and scan it down.

Use DSP to check if signal suddenly vanishes (someone completes site). Swap back to DSP on first scan

If there is no signal I wish to scan

5. Recall, warp to next gate.
6. Back to step 1.

Tl;dr Position does not matter due to the low sensor strength of DSP.

trjcquee
Posted - 2011.01.15 23:32:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: XXSketchxx
Tl;dr Position does not matter due to the low sensor strength of DSP.

Thanks a lot for this info. I like it when cats escape from bags Razz Now my only fear is that CCP will nerf the skill requirements for DSP right after I spend a couple of weeks training Astro 5. Has happened to me twice already, but I'm going to go for it anyway.

Zaknussem
Everybody Loves Donuts
Posted - 2011.01.16 11:47:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: XXSketchxx
Originally by: Zaknussem

One question though: What about RSS probes? Do you plan to add them later?


There is no reason to add RSS probes or sisters probes.

The faction core scanner versions would suffer the same results as regular Core scanner probes (described in the op) and the sisters deep space probes do not give an increase in strength.


Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I must have been half-asleep when I read this through and commented.

DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente
Best Path Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.01.17 01:19:00 - [43]
 

Nice work!

Or, you can simplify this step by using something common as a reference for signature strength... like a regular C1~C3 wormhole. Then, you can analyze the signature strength of other unknwon sites by refering to wormholes. (Stronger / similar to / smaller than wormholes.) If you do it enough you can remember the site's strength proportional to reference sizes. In your memory (or in your worksheet), it would look like this;

Site A (2AU - easily 100%)
Site B1, B2 (2AU - 100%, but slightly harder)
------------------------------
[C1 ~ C3 Wormhole] / Site C, Site D... (1AU)
------------------------------
Site E1, E2 (0.5 AU - easily)
Site [C5 Wormhole], F (0.5 AU - slightly harder)
Site G (0.25 AU - easily)
....

When your scan strength increases, the required scan radius increases, which means that you can scan down the site more easily. The relative size relationship does not change; this is how you identify the site. Sketch's calculations can be used for comparing the relative signature strength of these sites.

I have memorized this relationship for every single combat site in all lowsec regions. I'm sure there is a site that has deep space scanner probe measurements for every single site in eve, so that can be useful for reconstructing the relative strengths of sites (measured from 1024 AU away, making the data pretty reliable).

Dorn Val
Posted - 2011.01.19 09:10:00 - [44]
 

I already do something similar with core probes, but not on a single scan. Pretty easy to eliminate signals based on scan strength at a given scan range.

Second4ry
Posted - 2011.02.05 01:09:00 - [45]
 

In your spreadsheet you use a normalizing factor to scale a result between the result you get using your ship and equipment and the result anyone else would get using different equipment.

The base used by this normalizing factor is 5 which is the base scan strength of a DSP, but isn't that the scan strength of a DSP when using its shortest range setting, I thought it had a lower scan strength when used at longer ranges?

I _think_ it doesn't make any difference to the validity of the calculations (although maths isn't my strong point). But if it's true that the sensor strength of the DSP at max range is lower than at shorter ranges then isn't using 5 in the normalizing factor just an arbitrary value which detracts from the intelligibility of the spreadsheet, and wouldn't usng a base of 1 be more correct?




Spineker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.02.05 09:31:00 - [46]
 

I got rich off of exploration when it first released. Billions, everything now is pithy

Blood Fart
Posted - 2011.02.05 16:30:00 - [47]
 

I've been exploring to make my money for a little over a year now. Here's what I've found just by paying attention. No spreadsheets needed.

#1: Loot drops are random. Site type spawns are NOT.....at least not completely. It's not that complicated to force certain types of sites but cannot be done in high-sec because (I think) they get gang humped as soon as the signature pops up. I have no experiance in null sites but low-sec ones spawn a certain way......have fun I'm not giving out all my secrets.

#2: High-sec exploration is boring. You'll make more isk shadowing the T3s in a fast cruiser and stealing their faction rat drop. Just skip the escalation sites unless they are untouched and you don't have to swap out to a better combat ship (there's a good chance by the time you get in a different ship and get back to the bookmark someone else will be on it....get ready to shoot the escalation trigger faster or move on). Skip mag sites....just skip them they're a waste of time. Radar is where you can make more dough in high-sec versus just doing lvl4s but damn does it take alot of grinding to get the right ones. Grav isn't my thing but the miners in the system's belts seemed to like them.

#3: A few quiet low-sec backwater systems can make you rich in a short amount of time if you know how to take the right risks at the right time. I've only found a couple combat sites that a normal PvE setup battlecruiser can't handle. The best part is a good site will stay there for days because roaming PvPers aren't interested in them (unless you're in it) and carebears are too afraid to go there. Mag is worth doing there and radars drop 3-4x what high-sec ones do. Once you find a good system the only real dangers you have are the players that live there and consider those sites theirs....unless you don't know anything about PvP/local/d-scan/etc but then you're probably playing the wrong game anyway.

#4: Yeah, after a while you'll notice that "x" plex always comes up at "x" strength depending on your skills/equipment. In high-sec a better thing to know is what wrecks will be on scan if someone else is already in the last room so you don't waste your time burning to a gate 60k out to see the tengu pop the loot ship/object and warp out.....unless you take my fast cruiser to steal advice then knowing whats in there will let you know how far along they are. In low-sec knowing what kind of wrecks the plexs generate will let you know if the +5 sec status guy in a myrmidon is in your outpost. Then you get to loot his wreck AND the possible rat droppings. YARRRR!!


In summary, exploration is a great way to make isk if you grow a pair. The sites you find are nowhere near as important as WHERE you find them. EVE has no mods or skills to make you a successfull explorer...just a grinder with a T3 and a spreadsheet.

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2011.02.05 18:21:00 - [48]
 

Old news is old.

And not entirely accurate in some minutiae, but w/e.

Darth McDarth
Posted - 2011.02.06 02:25:00 - [49]
 

Tagged

Sala Teng
Posted - 2011.02.07 07:57:00 - [50]
 

Dear OP, thanks a load for your unraveling of mysteries.

Just one question for you (and other informed people): Is it feasible to do this in one ship, say Tengu, as proposed somewhere in this thread? Or shall we use some sort of 2ship-combo (Buzzard as scanner, Tengu as muscle)?

Thx,
ST

Dorn Val
Posted - 2011.02.07 08:52:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Sala Teng
...Is it feasible to do this in one ship, say Tengu, as proposed somewhere in this thread? Or shall we use some sort of 2ship-combo (Buzzard as scanner, Tengu as muscle)?


If you have to re-ship then odds are someone will either be in the site when you get back, or it will be gone because someone already ran it. IMHO if you want to get into exploration you're better off in a Recon (one that can cloak) or a Tech III cruiser (the Tech III being better).

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.07 12:06:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Sala Teng
Dear OP, thanks a load for your unraveling of mysteries.

Just one question for you (and other informed people): Is it feasible to do this in one ship, say Tengu, as proposed somewhere in this thread? Or shall we use some sort of 2ship-combo (Buzzard as scanner, Tengu as muscle)?

Thx,
ST


If you have an alt, 2 ship is fine. But the ideal ship is without a doubt the tengu. With the emergent locus subsystem you can probe with a DSP. Additionally, I keep a covert cloak + covert subsystem + dissolution sequencer in my cargo (ECCM mods already fitted). This is for those final escalations in low sec. Just swap back to the accelerated ejection sub when you get in low sec (use the "most unlikely" station to be being used, i.e. State Bank or something like that). If only one station be careful and even if there's no station, the covert fit tengu can still manage the final escalations for Gurista Watch/Vigil, it just may take a while (especially Vigil).

Actually I stopped running Vigils altogether. That final escalation isn't worth the time.

SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2011.02.07 17:43:00 - [53]
 

Tengu is great for hisec exploration, but if I'm on a gurista terrorist plot that escalates to the end in lowsec, I'll usually take a pvp-fit rapier.

The advantage there is, in 3 volleys you can complete the site (1 shot to the f10 tower, sometimes two for the dg ship), and your done. And if you're fast and smart enough how you do it, the scramming rats won't get you, and neither will the pirates who are probing you down. You'll only be uncloaked for just a few seconds between volleys.

lag kills
Original Sin.
Underworld Excavators
Posted - 2011.02.07 18:34:00 - [54]
 

i've been in caldariland for a week or so and made some very nice money. imo the loki is just as good, if not better than the tengu because it's generally faster at killing the frigs and cruisers and you never need much range. when i warp in on the first room of the gurista scout outpost, i set approach for the next gate and by the time i reach it, everything in the room is blown up, then i just tank everything in the next room while blowing up the telescope. Laughing

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.08 11:51:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: lag kills
i've been in caldariland for a week or so and made some very nice money. imo the loki is just as good, if not better than the tengu because it's generally faster at killing the frigs and cruisers and you never need much range. when i warp in on the first room of the gurista scout outpost, i set approach for the next gate and by the time i reach it, everything in the room is blown up, then i just tank everything in the next room while blowing up the telescope. Laughing


Tengu with AML does the same.

As for using a pvp rapier...I don't see the problem with that. My only point is that I roam 3 regions over the course of the week. It is highly unlikely that I would have a ship like that ready to go in the near vicinity. Being able to use the tengu for the final stage is imperative to being able to "keep on moving" and getting as many sites as possible.

Ariane VoxDei
Posted - 2011.02.08 15:32:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Salliene
The general EVE populace has proven time and again to be highly averse to anything other than a "push button, receive reward" style of game play.
I have pushed the buttons many times, where is my reward? Are you telling me that F1-F4 were the wrong buttons?

Cyniac
Gallente
Twilight Star Rangers
Posted - 2011.02.08 17:13:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: KWyz

But they DO respawn, and quickly enough so that us carebears who don't have the skills/mood for missioning will be able to support themselves via exploration. Heck, i've been doing it since my second month in the game. Good luck out there!


Per constellation actually.

While the writeup is nice, there is nothing new in this (though the leg work is very good - especially if it accurately takes into account the different skills and gear, have to check.)

Myguba
Posted - 2011.02.08 17:35:00 - [58]
 

Thank you for these elaborate infos i will make use of these dailies.

Lithargos
Posted - 2011.02.12 13:58:00 - [59]
 

Erm I really want to believe in this system but having tried it around a bit, some stuff stick ome stuff don't.

One system, 1 deep space probe:

three signatures all at 0.22%.... and they turn out to be: one wormhole,one grav, one complex.

How's this?

XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
Posted - 2011.02.12 14:11:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Lithargos
Erm I really want to believe in this system but having tried it around a bit, some stuff stick ome stuff don't.

One system, 1 deep space probe:

three signatures all at 0.22%.... and they turn out to be: one wormhole,one grav, one complex.

How's this?


Read through how the process works again.

Each of those sites you found at that percent will only ever show at that percent (that specific wh, that specific grav, and that specific complex).


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