open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [Proposal] Recycle unwanted skill for skillpoints
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

avidb
Posted - 2011.01.07 02:21:00 - [1]
 

I propose that a feature be added to allow for the "unlearning" of skills. The skillpoints from this process minus a penalty should be available to use on other skills.

A time limiting factor like remaps should also be put in place.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.07 02:34:00 - [2]
 

The key phrase "time limit" I was looking for was in your third sentence.

I absolutely, 100%, undeniably support this.

Professor Screweyes
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.07 02:37:00 - [3]
 

Absolutely not supported. If you're bored with your hulk, go to the character bazaar

Karn Velora
Posted - 2011.01.07 02:42:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Karn Velora on 07/01/2011 02:42:12
Not exactly a new topic but...

Personally I don't see the problem. A time limit, and losing a percentage of the SP you shuffle around should prevent any "abuse" such as jumping on every draketrain that is currently popular. Any attempt to change too much, too often will soon nerf your character into noob-hood.

Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD
Tragedy.
Posted - 2011.01.07 02:45:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi on 07/01/2011 02:44:52
I like the idea...I see no reason why this shouldn't be possible especially if you don't get a 1/1 ratio back on skill points and you have to pay to do it.

Papa FireDance
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.07 02:57:00 - [6]
 

I support this.

Why?
-It lets you correct training mistakes,
-So long as their is at least a 50% SP reduction penalty, the system cannot be abused by training high attribute skills,
-It lets new players explore different race ships without being permanently stuck with ship skills they do not want,
-It lets players that are tired of their current job to switch, albeit with a penalty, to something new and allows the game to stay fresh.

With 50% penalty to points(1.e. you lose 50% of the trained points on switching), a yearly cooldown, and being unable to pay for the switch as a micro transaction I think this would go a long way to helping EVE and increasing player retention.

Signing off,
-Papa

ViolenTUK
Gallente
Demolition Men
Posted - 2011.01.07 03:04:00 - [7]
 

Not supported.

Karn Velora
Posted - 2011.01.07 03:32:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: ViolenTUK
Not supported.

Why?

Originally by: Professor Screweyes
Absolutely not supported. If you're bored with your hulk, go to the character bazaar

Why?


Very Happy
I mean... hey, it's fine to disagree, but at least try to be constructive. Offer a reason. What will it unbalance? Or is it just fun to deny people a possibility to correct some mistakes?

sabre906
Posted - 2011.01.07 03:38:00 - [9]
 

Supported. The reason being, that due to poor mechanics, certain skills have negative effect on you in some situations. You train up negotiation skills, and suddenly your favorite highsec mission agent reach the effective quality threshold to reach into lowsec. You train up afterburner, and suddenly ab cycle is long enough that ab warp no longer saves you align time. There is no way to unlearn skill, you're stuck. I'd settle for a significant penalty for unlearning, even no SP return in acceptable in those cases.

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.07 04:14:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Karn Velora
Originally by: ViolenTUK
Not supported.

Why?

Originally by: Professor Screweyes
Absolutely not supported. If you're bored with your hulk, go to the character bazaar

Why?


Very Happy
I mean... hey, it's fine to disagree, but at least try to be constructive. Offer a reason. What will it unbalance? Or is it just fun to deny people a possibility to correct some mistakes?


*insert bitter vet comment here*

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.07 04:23:00 - [11]
 

Supported. I see nothing against redistributing that which you already learnt.

Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2011.01.07 06:00:00 - [12]
 

depends on the ratio as well

turning 1mil SP into 750k SP unallocated seems fair as well as only can do it once per year.

this means people can start out mining, then move to PVE, then remove mining and perfect PVE/pvp skills.

this also means High SP characters no matter the skillset wil have value, a trader alt with max trade skills might not be worth much but with this 75% of thier SP can go into whatever you want.

Professor Screweyes
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.07 07:20:00 - [13]
 

Quote:
Originally by: Karn Velora
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally by: ViolenTUK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not supported.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Why?


Originally by: Professor Screweyes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutely not supported. If you're bored with your hulk, go to the character bazaar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Why?



I mean... hey, it's fine to disagree, but at least try to be constructive. Offer a reason. What will it unbalance? Or is it just fun to deny people a possibility to correct some mistakes?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



*insert bitter vet comment here*

MY, aren't you the clever one. in lieu of a legitimate opinion, you just insert juvenile and churlish smack for anyone who disagrees with the op.
Quote:
Originally by: Karn Velora
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I mean... hey, it's fine to disagree, but at least try to be constructive. Offer a reason. What will it unbalance? Or is it just fun to deny people a possibility to correct some mistakes?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



*insert asinine noob comment here*

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2011.01.07 09:11:00 - [14]
 

SP remapping makes sense in games where there are hard limits on how many points you can spend on developing your character, but in EVE such restrictions don't exist. Here the feature serves to satisfy three needs, SP farming, getting rid of unwanted skills and quick skill switching.

SP farming isn't a big problem, if you apply a huge penalty to the transfers. This way it would be inefficient to change SP even from max attribute training to min attribute skills. From SP maximizing standpoint a remap would always be a loss in SP.

Getting rid of unwanted skill is unnecessary. There is no limit to how many SP you can have, so you have only lost time with that training, and you only consider it wasted now. You could very easily change your mind later and find a use for those 'wasted' SP. Until there is a hardcap on how many SP a character can have, there aren't any wasted SP in EVE. It also makes the characters more vulnerable when someone with malicious intent gets access to the account.

Quick switching of skills goes against the EVE design philosophy of making choices that matter, it isn't necessary either because of the infinite SP you can have and caters mainly to the FOTM chasers. With SP remapping you can always chase the FOTM exclusively and remap when the inevitable nerf comes to the next FOTM setup without having to wait or suffer any negatives for over specializing in training. Allowing this will reduce even more the variety of setups and ships the players will fly from what it is today. Not a change I'm willing to support.

Basicly the benefits of this feature are miniscule for EVE with negatives mixed with the benefits and the feature just largely caters to player behavior, that CCP shouldn't try to cater to anyway. Not supported.

Niklas
Posted - 2011.01.07 10:09:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Niklas on 07/01/2011 10:13:05
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Getting rid of unwanted skill is unnecessary.


Not quite. I'd love to be able to forget a bunch of the industrial and science skills i haven't used in years and downgrade to a lower class of clone.

Quote:
Quick switching of skills goes against the EVE design philosophy of making choices that matter,
unless you have a few billions of isk to spare(or a few hundred in cash) to buy yourself a character from the totally ok and supported bazaar, because obviously when we say choices that matter, we mean choices that matter for poor folk.

I'd go for the idea. I would say you could forget one ENTIRE skill every few months, or even better, you can forget an entire skill, but can't forget a new one for the period of time those skillpoints represent(at base stats), or 2x that period. Also can't reset prereqs, of course. Lastly, doing this means you would have to purchase the skill book again if you ever changed your mind.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2011.01.07 10:22:00 - [16]
 

Stealth "reuse "useless" SP thread detected"

Grow up nooblets.

No one said you had to train that skill in the first place... learn to live with your mistakes.

If it offends you that much... repeatedly pod yourself :-P
Eventually you'll lose that skill/sp's.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.07 10:47:00 - [17]
 

It makes sense to integrate such an atrocity into the NPE, but for everyone else one must assume people know what the hell they are doing since they are manually buying a skillbook, manually injecting it and manually clicking train.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2011.01.07 10:51:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
It makes sense to integrate such an atrocity into the NPE, but for everyone else one must assume people know what the hell they are doing since they are manually buying a skillbook, manually injecting it and manually clicking train.


One of the first things I did was research and did a little reading before I chose the skill books I need/want.

For some reason... there are a lot of people who blindly go forth.

I think I have... 1 skill book I found not so useful... but then... it could be useful in a number of circumstances... but I have yet to point out any "useless" skill as it is.

I find the concept of "useless skills" rather hard to identify... maybe I'm just that weird.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.07 11:10:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Drake Draconis
One of the first things I did was research and did a little reading before I chose the skill books I need/want...

Hence the mention of the NPE. Tutorial dumps all manner of books into your lap as rewards with just a short description of what it does.

Makes sense to use a skill refund system as a final step in the tutorial, but not elsewhere.

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2011.01.07 14:32:00 - [20]
 

+1 OP Lots of people for many reasons should be able to do it so, wy not once per year like the remap?

I would realy like to refound all my skills in useless hybrids and gallente useless ships to minmatar or amarr ships/guns.

Papa FireDance
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.01.07 14:39:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Papa FireDance on 07/01/2011 14:46:23
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Stealth "reuse "useless" SP thread detected"

Grow up nooblets.

No one said you had to train that skill in the first place... learn to live with your mistakes.

If it offends you that much... repeatedly pod yourself :-P
Eventually you'll lose that skill/sp's.


We meet again. Once again you have completely failed to read the discussion going on here.

This is not a simple "I trained this now I don't wanna have it no more , WAAAAA!" type of deal. This is an introductory SP swap for new players. It's been highlighted over and over, new players spend ALOT of SP in areas that they'll end up not using.

Allowing a new character to, once or very strictly regulated, reassign some of their spent SP at a 50% cut, will not only encourage new players to explore all the races/ships/roles but will in the end reduce frustration and increase retention.

Quote:
Hence the mention of the NPE. Tutorial dumps all manner of books into your lap as rewards with just a short description of what it does.

Makes sense to use a skill refund system as a final step in the tutorial, but not elsewhere.


Really? The end of the tutorial? So, like an hour after starting the game?

IIRC, the only book from the tutorial that I didn't end up using was Projectile Weapons, because it was already trained. All the rest were good support skills; Shield and Armor skills, EWAR, Electronics, ETC.

Primarily I think it's ship skills that need to be relearned. Let me give an example of my beginning;

When I first started, I hadn't a flying f*** what was going on. I had no friends that played the game, had no guide. I had no idea what I wanted to fly, what i wanted to do, or which race I should specialize in. What's a noob to do? I trained them all. I got each race to Battleship class to see which one I liked best.

The end result was I enjoy Amarr and Minmatar ships and weapons, REALLY do not like Faildari and Gallente. How was I to know way back when that those ships would not appeal to me? I couldn't. So now I have several million wasted SP in Caldari, Gallente, and Hybrid weapons which I doubt highly I will every want back; I'd prefer to specialize.




Zorok
Cosmic Cimmerians
Usurper.
Posted - 2011.01.07 14:46:00 - [22]
 

I wholeheartedly agree with this especially after CCP changes something in the game that makes all that learning feel "wasted"!

Viral Effect
Caldari
BRAINDEAD Corp
Posted - 2011.01.07 15:36:00 - [23]
 

Not supported.

Dav Varan
Posted - 2011.01.07 15:36:00 - [24]
 

Yeah I like to be able to remove the skills I'll never use.
They mess with my OCD.


Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.01.07 15:47:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Papa FireDance
Really? The end of the tutorial? So, like an hour after starting the game?...

An hour? You must either be an insanely fast reader/learner or skipped a lot of the content.
Also sounds like you only did the combat tutorial, during testing of the new system there were 3-4 different paths if I recall.

Point still stands though, after the initial learning curve has been conquered the hand-holding should stop. When that should be is up for debate, but around the 2M SP mark or so seems reasonable (ie. approximately same point where old accelerated training stopped).

Sorry for your plight, if only you had read the rather extensive material available (both official and unofficial) on ships, modules, weapons etc. before deciding on what path to focus on.

What this whole thing amounts to is a person buying a product, then uses it until something better comes along and then demands a refund .. world does not and should not work like that.

Instant gratification in Eve should only come from the billion ticker in wallet, the boom and the squish of combat and the tears of virgins.
Once you start rewarding/protecting laziness you attract all the adolescent turds floating around in the MMO sea which will be the death-knell for Eve (high'ish average age plus serious spaceship business).

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.07 15:51:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Selinate on 07/01/2011 15:56:56
Edited by: Selinate on 07/01/2011 15:56:17
Originally by: Professor Screweyes

MY, aren't you the clever one. in lieu of a legitimate opinion, you just insert juvenile and churlish smack for anyone who disagrees with the op.


If I'm the clever one, then I guess you're the rather dimwitted one since you copied what I did.

Also, your opinion is not valid until you explain why, just like those responses which had no reasoning.

Also, umadbro?

Goose99
Posted - 2011.01.07 15:57:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
It makes sense to integrate such an atrocity into the NPE, but for everyone else one must assume people know what the hell they are doing since they are manually buying a skillbook, manually injecting it and manually clicking train.


CCP can and do change the game balancing radically, but players can't change their choices. If all choices are final, they must be final for everyone. With the incoming of sleeper ai on rats, drone users will be hit hard, many of whom do not have SP invested in other fields in order to maintain an income stream to replace pvp ships, buy plex, etc. Should they be pushed out of the game just because they had no warning that CCP is going to invalidate droneboats for pve, at the time that they learned those skills?

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2011.01.07 19:09:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Papa FireDance
Edited by: Papa FireDance on 07/01/2011 14:46:23


We meet again. Once again you have completely failed to read the discussion going on here.

This is not a simple "I trained this now I don't wanna have it no more , WAAAAA!" type of deal. This is an introductory SP swap for new players. It's been highlighted over and over, new players spend ALOT of SP in areas that they'll end up not using.

Allowing a new character to, once or very strictly regulated, reassign some of their spent SP at a 50% cut, will not only encourage new players to explore all the races/ships/roles but will in the end reduce frustration and increase retention.




The only frustration I see here is someone has a couple of low tiered skill books they want to get rid of.... well that's your defense... skills you picked up from tutorial.

Get over yourself... man up... this is EVE Online.

Don't like it? Quit.


You can stop training on any and all skills... you can cross-train at any time.

This... would solve nothing nor would it achieve nothing but balance breaking mechanics and increase char farming something fierce.
If your not smart enough to figure out the fact that SP's being reimbursed tilt the balance of training very much in your favor... your really are a noob.

Ogogov
Gallente
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.01.07 19:51:00 - [29]
 

I do quite like this idea.

It would provide a minor balancing aspect for older players wishing to retrain quickly and the fact that they would lose some SP in the process would mean evening out the field for younger players.

It would also reinforce the fact that you should be more attached to your characters. If CCP are aiming for an ultimate scifi simulator, they should be looking at ways to make people more attached to their char, and adding any kind of flexibility like this is going to help that along. This will help reduce character trading the the accompanying fraud by enabling people to better re-spec their chars into something that is useful.

In real life if you stop doing something every day, you get less good at doing it. You don't just take your life to a character bazaar and trade it in for one that does what you want it to do - that cheapens the whole experience from a personal perspective - which isn't going to help immersion any.

Of course you'd be an idiot to reskill your 5/5/5/5/5/5/5 titan pilot or whatever, but you've already hit the endgame there.

P.S -

I wonder how many SP in total across tranquility would get lost of hybrid/gallente skills if this were to become a reality - any bets?

Ataxio
Posted - 2011.01.07 20:20:00 - [30]
 

Def like this idea, I've accidentally trained a few skills (Projectiles) that I wouldn't mind removing. Even if I don't get the SP back, looking at the impurity of a projectile skill nestled in with all my laser skills makes me sad in the pants region.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only