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Ehrghiez
Posted - 2011.01.06 06:36:00 - [1]
 

I fly Gallente and have been playing around with eft numbers using other ship platforms and came to the realization that Gallente Battleships kinda suck in comparison to its Amarrian counterparts.

If I wanted to train for a particular amarr battleship (for PvE) which would be best? I ask this because they all seem to be decent ships.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.01.06 06:59:00 - [2]
 

Apoc, Geddon Navy Issue, Paladin.

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
Posted - 2011.01.06 08:54:00 - [3]
 

With T1 guns the Apoc is probably the PvE boat of choice. T2 guns open the Abaddon as a serious contender.

But really... what do you mean by training for a particular Amarr BS? They're all armor tanked laser boats. Skill for that and all three work (though the geddon really needs solid drone skills as well).

Mastin Dragonfly
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.01.06 11:08:00 - [4]
 

Like Zhilia said the skills for all amarr battleship are pretty much the same. Just don't be too tempted to train for T2 Tachyons. The 25% extra cap-use over faction Tachyons isn't really worth the extra damage. Also keep in mind that only the Paladin and the Nightmare are really suitable to fit Tachyons due to their immense fitting reqs. For Navy Apoc you're best of with T2 Mega Pulse.

Hephaesteus
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.06 11:59:00 - [5]
 

Best Amarr pve ships have got to be either, the Paladin or the Nightmare. Both are good ships and able to fit everything with no drama. And like Mastin said the T2 tachs are very power hungry for not much of a dps increase, if you can afford the Imperial Navy ones they are your best bet.

Ehrghiez
Posted - 2011.01.06 12:13:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Zhilia Mann
With T1 guns the Apoc is probably the PvE boat of choice. T2 guns open the Abaddon as a serious contender.

But really... what do you mean by training for a particular Amarr BS? They're all armor tanked laser boats. Skill for that and all three work (though the geddon really needs solid drone skills as well).


I suppose I didn't think much before writing that. What I meant was Amarr BS in general. Not any specific ship. Im sort of getting bored with feeling like the red headed step child of the PvE world while floating around in my mega. I like the ship, but there are better PvE boats.

Kelly Ardos
Posted - 2011.01.06 14:46:00 - [7]
 

Amarr have great ships the only thing that really hampers them is high cap costs on their guns and no damage selection. Lasers always do EM/Therm, its not as big of an issue as it used to be pre-EM resistance nerf. Though many myself included hesitate to say it was really that big of an issue prior.

For pure PvE your best best as many will tell you is Caldari, specifically the Golem because you can select your damage types freely. Obviously though as Gallente you have no existing Missile skills. Minmatar arent bad either really, projectiles, uses many of your existing gunnery skills so that might not be a bad choice.

Pretty much no race is a "bad" choice at the end of the day.

Seraph Castillon
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.06 15:40:00 - [8]
 

You said you currently use a Mega? Training Amarr is not necessarily the only/best/shortest training time solution to your problem. Depending on your investment in Hybrids or Drones you could get a Dominix or even a Vindicator (not the best PvE faction BS though).

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.01.06 16:10:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Zhilia Mann
(though the geddon really needs solid drone skills as well).


It doesn't need them any more than any other BS does.

MoonDragn
Caldari
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.01.06 18:16:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: MoonDragn on 06/01/2011 18:21:33
Since this topic is already here, I have a question about running lvl 3 missions in amarr space. I'm having problems with the lvl 3 agent combat missions that reside in deadspace. I am using an apoc with tier 1 stuff because I do not have enough skills for tier 2 yet with mostly meta 4 tier 1 equipment. Using medium drones.

I find that when the acceleration gate warps me to the location, I am in the middle of a lot of cruisers shooting at me. I can't tank enough to deal with the dmg. I'm using 1 each of meta 4 energized em, heat and kinetic armor and a large armor repairer. Any suggestions? (This is the mission where theres a captain and a few lieutenants and lots of sergeants. The missions that don't force me to warp so close are easy because I can kill them fast at range)

Cataca
Posted - 2011.01.06 18:41:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: MoonDragn
Edited by: MoonDragn on 06/01/2011 18:21:33
Since this topic is already here, I have a question about running lvl 3 missions in amarr space. I'm having problems with the lvl 3 agent combat missions that reside in deadspace. I am using an apoc with tier 1 stuff because I do not have enough skills for tier 2 yet with mostly meta 4 tier 1 equipment. Using medium drones.

I find that when the acceleration gate warps me to the location, I am in the middle of a lot of cruisers shooting at me. I can't tank enough to deal with the dmg. I'm using 1 each of meta 4 energized em, heat and kinetic armor and a large armor repairer. Any suggestions? (This is the mission where theres a captain and a few lieutenants and lots of sergeants. The missions that don't force me to warp so close are easy because I can kill them fast at range)


First of all, you need to train for active hardeners t2 asap and use those instead, and t2 large armor reppers. Second of all, you should use hardeners according to the mission profile. EVE Survival will provide you with the needed damage types. When you get sufficient armor skills, you can start thinking about a omni tank.

The third point is, that you will probably be faster/better off in a Battlecruiser. Large guns with low skills have some issues tracking frigs/cruisers at close range.

something like this
[Harbinger, Beginner Harbi]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners

Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Heavy Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Small Tractor Beam I

Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Hammerhead II x5


Will probably serve you well for the moment, it should have the tank to do most missions without issues, the range is somewhat bad, and according to mission type you might have to switch it around a bit (and definitely add some heatsinks/tracking computers/other stuff instead of cap mods and tank once your skills get better) if you want some ideas about fits, Battleclinic isnt a bad place to look around.

Xia Xiou
Posted - 2011.01.06 18:42:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
(though the geddon really needs solid drone skills as well).


It doesn't need them any more than any other BS does.


Actually, it does. With it's 125mb bandwidth you really need the skills for T2 sentries at the minimum to make it shine. Most other battleship's are fine with only T2 scout drones.

Another big question is, where do you plan to run missions at for the long haul. If your in Amarr space, than Amarr ships are a very good choice. The primary rats you will fight are weak against lasers and armor tanked ships. If your still in Gallente space, or in Caldari or Minnie space, I would think that a Caldari or Minnie boat would be better. Shield tanking lets you have your tank and still fit a bunch of damage mods. Also, you won't see nearly as many laser using enemies, which is the biggest weakness of shield tanking. Also, in those regions of space you start seeing enemies that are strong against lasers with more frequency.

Gallente does have some good mission boats though at T1. The Domi is a fine mission boat. But, where with Amarr, Caldari and Minnie there is a step or two beyond the basic battleships....the Domi is about as good as it gets. There is a Navy Domi but I have no experience with it, I still can't see it being as good as a Nightmare, Machariel or Golem/Tengu/Nighthawk.

MoonDragn
Caldari
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.01.06 18:48:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Cataca
First of all, you need to train for active hardeners t2 asap and use those instead, and t2 large armor reppers. Second of all, you should use hardeners according to the mission profile. EVE Survival will provide you with the needed damage types. When you get sufficient armor skills, you can start thinking about a omni tank.

The third point is, that you will probably be faster/better off in a Battlecruiser.


Did I mention I was broke and am doing these missions so I can afford to get all that stuff you mentioned?

Cataca
Posted - 2011.01.06 18:56:00 - [14]
 

You mentioned meta4 stuff, which in most cases, is more expensive than t2 stuff. In any case, if its just about how you can properly tank, use active hardeners and look up npc damage profiles, it will increase your tank substantially.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:28:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Xia Xiou
Originally by: Anubis Xian
Originally by: Zhilia Mann
(though the geddon really needs solid drone skills as well).


It doesn't need them any more than any other BS does.


Actually, it does.


Actually, it doesn't.

Quote:
With it's 125mb bandwidth you really need the skills for T2 sentries at the minimum to make it shine.


Without drones, the Armageddon will outdps just about every BS in the game save the Raven and possibly the Typhoon. With drones it is just that much more powerful.

Quote:
Most other battleship's are fine with only T2 scout drones.


Most other battleships can only use T2 scout drones.*


The Armageddon would be perfectly fine with a 50 mbit bandwidth. The 125 mbit is just a nice bonus to the best gunship in the game.

Protip: Falcons and Scorpions are always surprised to be jammed by a geddon.

MoonDragn
Caldari
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:41:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Cataca
You mentioned meta4 stuff, which in most cases, is more expensive than t2 stuff. In any case, if its just about how you can properly tank, use active hardeners and look up npc damage profiles, it will increase your tank substantially.


Thanks, you clued me in on the profiles. I thought i was fighting sanshas but this mission has mercenaries which use kin/thermal instead of em/therms. No Wonder.

Ehrghiez
Posted - 2011.01.07 13:15:00 - [17]
 

I have about 1.2mil SP in drone skills. Cant use T2 Sentries or heavies, but T2 light and meds. I started out in a Domi but eventually upgraded to a Mega. Personally I like the mega over the Domi. Quicker mission times for me. I have about 2.4mil SP invested in Gunnery.

I mostly mish in Caldari space. I was planning on going the amarr route due to not having to train shield skills since my armor tank skills would work with Amarr boats. All I would have to do is train the Amarr ship skills and energy turret skills.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2011.01.07 13:49:00 - [18]
 

Nightmare =)

Ehrghiez
Posted - 2011.01.07 14:56:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Nightmare =)


I'll get on that when I have the 1+ bil isk to buy and fit =P

Hephaesteus
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.07 17:05:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Ehrghiez
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Nightmare =)


I'll get on that when I have the 1+ bil isk to buy and fit =P


Nightmare is a fantastic ship. Much better than that rubbishy Kronos some folks keep going on about. Embarassed

Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.07 20:26:00 - [21]
 

As a pilot with much skills invested in the Gallente route i'd say that switching over to Amarr is not a big deal, Amarr ships armor tank and their guns use cap, two area's which you will have had to train up for as a Gallente BS pilot. That said Amarr BS's only really shine if you are coming up agaunst EM/Therm weak opponents, so if you want to fly them in PvE, move to Amarr space. For me the King is the Apoc, specifically a T2 Pulse fit Apoc, with Scorch and Amarr Navy Multifreqs, this eats Sansha/Blood Raiders alive in all Lvl4's.

Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
Posted - 2011.01.07 20:59:00 - [22]
 

You don't mention a budget, but if you've got some spare cash, this is what I lol through Amarr Lvl4s with:

[Paladin, PVE]
Imperial Navy Large Armor Repairer
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Imperial Navy Heat Sink
Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor EM Hardener
Corpus X-Type Armor Thermic Hardener

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Small Tractor Beam I
Small Tractor Beam I
Salvager II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

1107 DPS

Hephaesteus
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.07 22:53:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig
That said Amarr BS's only really shine if you are coming up against EM/Therm weak opponents, so if you want to fly them in PvE, move to Amarr space. For me the King is the Apoc, specifically a T2 Pulse fit Apoc, with Scorch and Amarr Navy Multifreqs, this eats Sansha/Blood Raiders alive in all Lvl4's.



I never used to believe how bad rails were, but I have since trained the skills to use Tachs. The thing is, my tachy boat kills Guristas faster than my Kronos with rails. Guristas are supposed to be vunerable to kin/therm damage so that was a real surprise to see the Kronos take longer at the same mission. The really weird thing is my Kronos has a better fit then my laser boat?

Tachs melt Sansha/ Blood raiders pretty quick and do a nice job on mercs too. I'm a convert. Wink

Tara Moss
Posted - 2011.01.08 03:55:00 - [24]
 

For lvl 4's, Paladin or Nightmare are great.

My preference is the Paladin -it's very forgiving in terms of fitting & tank and is cap stable without officer modules. It also lets you salvage on the run.

Mastin Dragonfly
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.01.08 14:29:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Hephaesteus
I never used to believe how bad rails were, but I have since trained the skills to use Tachs. The thing is, my tachy boat kills Guristas faster than my Kronos with rails. Guristas are supposed to be vunerable to kin/therm damage so that was a real surprise to see the Kronos take longer at the same mission. The really weird thing is my Kronos has a better fit then my laser boat?


425mm Railguns are the equivalent of Mega Beams, Tachyons are really a higher tier gun which shows in the fitting requirements. Before the Paladin and the revamp of the Nightmare they were really seldom used.

If there was a Tachyon equivalent for hybrids and ships that could use em the damage discrepancy between Amarr and Gallente would be a lot less.


Gligan
Posted - 2011.01.09 03:13:00 - [26]
 

Why switch to amarr and limit yourself to 2 damage types(+drones) when you can fly minmatar and rule the pve.
I've heard of 2 month old pilot that ran lvl 4 missions in AC maelstrom. Later on the dude procceded to train for vargur and now he only complains that missions are not chalgenging enough.

Face it - for optimum mission performance you want shield tank because you gotta stuff the low slot with damage mods and tracking enhancers.

AC's are the lowest dps guns around but you have the extra 1 or 2 damage mods which make all the difference.

And besides you already have the gallente bs skills, you can use a machariel with very low training - and the worst skilled machariel is way better than apoc, navy geddon and in 90% of the cases it's also better than nightmare and paladin.
just my 2 isk

Hephaesteus
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2011.01.09 10:52:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Gligan
Why switch to amarr and limit yourself to 2 damage types(+drones) when you can fly minmatar and rule the pve.


I do kind of fly the Minnie philosophy already. I use what is available to me at the time. So...

I have a Nightmare for Sansha/ Blood Raiders and also Mercs

A Kronos for kin/ therm weak rats.

And I have a CnR for them pesky Angels.

See good old fashioned Minnie values. Twisted Evil

Ehrghiez
Posted - 2011.01.09 11:16:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Gligan
Why switch to amarr and limit yourself to 2 damage types(+drones) when you can fly minmatar and rule the pve.
I've heard of 2 month old pilot that ran lvl 4 missions in AC maelstrom. Later on the dude procceded to train for vargur and now he only complains that missions are not chalgenging enough.

Face it - for optimum mission performance you want shield tank because you gotta stuff the low slot with damage mods and tracking enhancers.

AC's are the lowest dps guns around but you have the extra 1 or 2 damage mods which make all the difference.

And besides you already have the gallente bs skills, you can use a machariel with very low training - and the worst skilled machariel is way better than apoc, navy geddon and in 90% of the cases it's also better than nightmare and paladin.
just my 2 isk



Ahh, thats a good question. I am going Amarr as a temporary solution to my issue. Rails suck and really limit how fast I can complete mishes, which in the end hurts my isk per hour. So as a more immediate solution I am cross training into Amarr and then either Minmatar or Caldari. I like both Minmatar and Caldari, but I have well over a month of training to properly fit and fly either factions ships. I have virtually no shield skills so that puts me at a cross road.

But for the purpose of enlightenment Im gonna ask another question. I understand that the Caldari T1 BS of choice for missioning is the Raven, but how about the Minmatar? I very rarely see Minnie ships in Caldari space (or at least around my system.) How do Minmatar boats fare against the rest of the faction BS's in terms of PvE utility?

kajumar
Posted - 2011.01.11 13:34:00 - [29]
 

if you like i could give you a fit for a dominix that would slove you mission problems as it does alot more dps than any tech I amarr battle ship and is more flex able mail me if you are interested

Thorian Baalnorn
Posted - 2011.01.11 15:31:00 - [30]
 

They all are decent ships. IMO Amarr have got the best set of BSes out of the 4 races( when you take them collectively together). The Apoc is good if your looking for range( as in i dont want to move much while i do pve) but the baddon is the major damage dealer. 1100 dps without faction mods. Though cap can be an issue.


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