open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked CCP, lag, Solid state drives and you!
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

Crondor Stone
Posted - 2011.01.05 07:09:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Crondor Stone on 05/01/2011 07:11:05
Okay so I put EvE on my new solid state drive and bam, almost a completely new game as far as less lag and load times go. Normally when I would warp to Jita 4/4 I would have a hesitation/hiccup as all of the ship traffic would load. I did not encounter this when playing EvE from my SSD.

Can anyone explain? Why doesn't CCP use SSD for there server drives or would this not make a difference? Hell if it's money I would be willing to pay $19.99 a month if they could get rid of massive lag for fleet fights. I also think more people would be encouraged to go to Oh Oh land.

/discuss

EDIT: corrected bad punctuation and spelling errors..doh

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.01.05 07:15:00 - [2]
 

The server drives are only used for bootup after downtime to load the cluster. They have little use afterwards so putting in an ssd in everyone of them would accomplish nothing but driving up the cost of operations. Besides all the stuff that can actually benefit from ssd tech is already on it like the database with their ramsans.

PTang
Posted - 2011.01.05 07:15:00 - [3]
 

Oh, CCP uses Solid state drives all right. It has to do what your drive is doing times 2000.

ANd it's even faster then solid state, it's RANSAN?500? or something. it's like a 500GB stick of ram.

Kraundewr
Posted - 2011.01.05 07:16:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Kraundewr on 05/01/2011 07:19:04

Iraherag
Posted - 2011.01.05 07:24:00 - [5]
 

Classic example of "NO U LAG".

Those 7 GB of EVE sleeping on your hard disk need to be loaded sometimes.
Jita 4-4 needs to load a lot of that for all the different idio... individuals sitting outside the station.

An SSD does that faster than your conventional hard disk did, hence the speed up.

Why EVE cannot load that stuff in the background and avoid those mini-lockups is a different story.
But once again "waiting for better hardware to avoid having to make better software" has won. Twisted Evil

On the servers everything happens in RAM anyway, so no help from an SSD there...

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.01.05 07:27:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Iraherag
Why EVE cannot load that stuff in the background and avoid those mini-lockups is a different story.
But once again "waiting for better hardware to avoid having to make better software" has won. Twisted Evil
You don't enable your resource cache? That stores all the stuff you have already ran across so you might lag when you jump into jita or undock for the first time but after that its all stored in ram for instant loading.

Iraherag
Posted - 2011.01.05 07:34:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Iraherag on 05/01/2011 07:35:18
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Iraherag
Why EVE cannot load that stuff in the background and avoid those mini-lockups is a different story.
But once again "waiting for better hardware to avoid having to make better software" has won. Twisted Evil
You don't enable your resource cache? That stores all the stuff you have already ran across so you might lag when you jump into jita or undock for the first time but after that its all stored in ram for instant loading.


I'm afraid I cannot offer 7 GB of RAM for my EVE client...

Zhim'Fufu
Posted - 2011.01.05 07:52:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Iraherag
Edited by: Iraherag on 05/01/2011 07:35:18
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Iraherag
Why EVE cannot load that stuff in the background and avoid those mini-lockups is a different story.
But once again "waiting for better hardware to avoid having to make better software" has won. Twisted Evil
You don't enable your resource cache? That stores all the stuff you have already ran across so you might lag when you jump into jita or undock for the first time but after that its all stored in ram for instant loading.


I'm afraid I cannot offer 7 GB of RAM for my EVE client...
You don't need 7 gigs of ram for the cache as there will never be an occasion where everything graphical in the game is on one grid. At worst with it on my client takes up about 800mb of ram when in a very populated area like the jita undock.

mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2011.01.05 08:15:00 - [9]
 

100% of a fleet fight's dataset is in memory. Heavily queued parts of the database (or even the entire database now?) are on RAMSANs, and RAMSANs are basically supercharged SSDs based on conventional DRAM technology.

The bottlenecks in a fleet fight are CPU cycles, as most of the work is loaded onto a single core (eve was designed back in the single core days).

Alakazam
Gallente
Skid-Row
Posted - 2011.01.05 08:39:00 - [10]
 

ehum, they already use ssd for their servers.

CCP Ramsan Success Story

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.01.05 09:38:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Iraherag

Jita 4-4 needs to load a lot of that for all the different idio... individuals sitting outside the station.


You win the forums for today Very Happy

FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.01.05 10:13:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Crondor Stone
Edited by: Crondor Stone on 05/01/2011 07:11:05
Okay so I put EvE on my new solid state drive and bam, almost a completely new game as far as less lag and load times go. Normally when I would warp to Jita 4/4 I would have a hesitation/hiccup as all of the ship traffic would load. I did not encounter this when playing EvE from my SSD.

Can anyone explain?

You got that hiccup when client loads the ship and station models from your drive. That won't help solve server lag in any way.

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.01.05 10:17:00 - [13]
 

To achieve this kind of effect with an hardware change we'd need something like a... 60 GHz CPU core. (And that's about a 20-fold increase, not the 40x increase they state for the ramsans).

As one can clearly see it's not exactly feasible (and this is ignoring memory issues that while uncommon, right now, would become much more common with just an increase in computing power).

So, back to coding. Hardware should really be the last thing to upgrade, when the code cannot absolutely made to run any faster. Ofc upgrades over the years are very welcome but for an increase in overall "capacity" not in performance. Performance problems most of the time generate in the code and there should be solved.

Sporked
Posted - 2011.01.05 12:11:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Iraherag


Why EVE cannot load that stuff in the background and avoid those mini-lockups is a different story.
But once again "waiting for better hardware to avoid having to make better software" has won. Twisted Evil



You obviously haven't been to fanfest/watched it simucast/watched it on youtube afterwards have you? I suggest you go watch the 2009 keynotes video, bit long but it's a big fat NO U at that statement :3 Also has Oveur in a beership so thats the real reason you should be watching it though tbh.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.01.05 12:20:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Mara Rinn on 05/01/2011 12:21:07
Originally by: Sporked
Originally by: Iraherag
... But once again "waiting for better hardware to avoid having to make better software" has won. Twisted Evil



I suggest you go watch the 2009 keynotes video, bit long but it's a big fat NO U at that statement :3...


The fact that CCP has only recently discovered that serialising the same dataset over and over again in order to send exactly the same data to everyone on grid makes the simulation laggy, leads me to believe that there's an awful lot of "make better software" that can happen in order to make better use of the awesome hardware they're using.

(edit: less is more... I've been using Unix too long)

Captain Mastiff
Posted - 2011.01.05 12:21:00 - [16]
 

Confirming SSD has sped up my Eve considerably.

I'm running a 60gb OCZ Vertex 2, very fast loading but then that's down to the processor as well etc. It is a upgrade worth considering however it's not the solution to lag.

Ostingele Tectum
Posted - 2011.01.05 12:26:00 - [17]
 

I don't have an SSD but I just put my chatlogs folder into a ramdisk and it made everything chat-related so much smoother, like, there is not even a drop in fps. Before I do that there would be a fps valley everytime i switch channel, for expample.

Iraherag
Posted - 2011.01.05 14:08:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Sporked
Originally by: Iraherag


Why EVE cannot load that stuff in the background and avoid those mini-lockups is a different story.
But once again "waiting for better hardware to avoid having to make better software" has won. Twisted Evil



You obviously haven't been to fanfest/watched it simucast/watched it on youtube afterwards have you? I suggest you go watch the 2009 keynotes video, bit long but it's a big fat NO U at that statement :3 Also has Oveur in a beership so thats the real reason you should be watching it though tbh.


I'll bow to the superior argument. Just show me where you hid yours, because you forgot to post it...

Drakarin
Gallente
Absentia Libertas Solus
Posted - 2011.01.05 15:14:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: mechtech
100% of a fleet fight's dataset is in memory. Heavily queued parts of the database (or even the entire database now?) are on RAMSANs, and RAMSANs are basically supercharged SSDs based on conventional DRAM technology.

The bottlenecks in a fleet fight are CPU cycles, as most of the work is loaded onto a single core (eve was designed back in the single core days).


Oh, really?

Man, if they could update their software to fully utilize two or more cores, that would skyrocket the large scale battle warfare, fps wise. It may still lag server side but that's a step in the right direction to be sure.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.01.05 15:56:00 - [20]
 

ITT: a guy who is 4(?) years late on the news.


keywords: RAMSAN 400

MoonDragn
Caldari
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.01.05 16:04:00 - [21]
 

cool, I'm setting up a new computer for games, this is what I got so far:

EVGA P55 Classified 200 motherboard
Intel I5 655k unlocked CPU 3.2 ghz
Kingston HyperX H2Ox4 2000mhz DDR3 8gb total
Vertex II 60gb SSD
EVGA 470 superclocked x2 in SLI
Corsair AX-1200 PSU
Thermaltake Armor case
Westinghouse 47" TV/Monitor


Watercooled with CPU, GPU blocks. Skipping memory waterblocks for now since it is pointless.


PS. CCP does use SSDs, but they use high end server ones that cost a few hundred grand each.

Yuki Kulotsuki
Posted - 2011.01.05 17:37:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Drakarin
Oh, really?

Man, if they could update their software to fully utilize two or more cores, that would skyrocket the large scale battle warfare, fps wise. It may still lag server side but that's a step in the right direction to be sure.
FPS issues are client side. Module lag, cap lag, broadcast lag, ships not dying are all server issues.

Part of the problem is that a lot of fleet warfare is serial and cannot be parallelized. Another part is the python GIL. A third part is that depending on the ops you need to do, cross thread communication can become a performance killer.

Iraherag
Posted - 2011.01.05 18:06:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: MoonDragn
cool, I'm setting up a new computer for games, this is what I got so far:

EVGA P55 Classified 200 motherboard
Intel I5 655k unlocked CPU 3.2 ghz
Kingston HyperX H2Ox4 2000mhz DDR3 8gb total
Vertex II 60gb SSD
EVGA 470 superclocked x2 in SLI
Corsair AX-1200 PSU
Thermaltake Armor case
Westinghouse 47" TV/Monitor


Watercooled with CPU, GPU blocks. Skipping memory waterblocks for now since it is pointless.


PS. CCP does use SSDs, but they use high end server ones that cost a few hundred grand each.


60 GB is bit low for a gaming machine, don't you think?

1x Windows + 1x EVE and 1/3 to 1/2 is already gone...

MoonDragn
Caldari
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.01.05 18:22:00 - [24]
 

Thats just for the OS and EVE. I have a 1 TB Seagate drive also and WD 72gb Raptor

Okie Wren
Posted - 2011.01.05 19:33:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Crondor Stone
.

Hell if it's money I would be willing to pay $19.99 a month if they could get rid of massive lag for fleet fights.


Yes. Please do sign us all up for an extra $20 fee every month, we really appreciate it.


 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only