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blankseplocked Time to UNNERF the large weapon systems and platforms
 
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KhaniKirai
Posted - 2011.01.04 16:32:00 - [1]
 

Yup, its time to undo the changes to large weapons and cruise/torp changes.

Due to the changes you made long ago, everyone is flying drakes and other battlecruisers nowadays.
Only reason for that is simple: the medium weapons are way too good and the large weapons can barely hit battlecruisers and lower anymore.

Yes a BS should nail a cruiser and also a battlecruiser, not like it is now, that a good pilot in a BC can nail the average BS pilot EASILY.

rant off.

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.01.04 16:38:00 - [2]
 

You saying we should give the BS-sized weapons the tracking and signature resolution of their smaller bretheren?

There is a reason why modern RL navies consists of advanced cruisers and (super)carriers. Wink

Desya Dak'ann
Caldari
No Ducks Allowed
Posted - 2011.01.04 16:40:00 - [3]
 

You obviously don't travel to 0.0 often do you? Drakes are out, the Malestorm is in

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2011.01.04 16:43:00 - [4]
 

Quote:
every rubbish sheep like player that believes everything he reads on the forums is flying drakes and other battlecruisers nowadays.


Fixed that for you.

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.01.04 16:52:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Illwill Bill on 04/01/2011 16:53:37
Originally by: Desya Dak'ann
You obviously don't travel to 0.0 often do you? Drakes are out, the Malestorm is in

Mael is the new FOTM? EMP alpha to counter Drake blobs?

Edit: Also, does this mean that the Drake isn't overpowered anymore? Will the Mael be needing a nerf now?

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2011.01.04 17:38:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Illwill Bill
Edited by: Illwill Bill on 04/01/2011 16:53:37
Originally by: Desya Dak'ann
You obviously don't travel to 0.0 often do you? Drakes are out, the Malestorm is in

Mael is the new FOTM? EMP alpha to counter Drake blobs?

Edit: Also, does this mean that the Drake isn't overpowered anymore? Will the Mael be needing a nerf now?


Well nerf something damnit...its all wrong!

I agree battleships should at least wtf pwn a battlecruiser.Every ship should pwn 1 ship class smaller but not more.

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2011.01.04 17:41:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: KhaniKirai
Yup, its time to undo the changes to large weapons and cruise/torp changes.

Due to the changes you made long ago, everyone is flying drakes and other battlecruisers nowadays.
Only reason for that is simple: the medium weapons are way too good and the large weapons can barely hit battlecruisers and lower anymore.

Yes a BS should nail a cruiser and also a battlecruiser, not like it is now, that a good pilot in a BC can nail the average BS pilot EASILY.

rant off.


Herp. Rolling Eyes

Acrior
Posted - 2011.01.04 18:59:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: HeIIfire11
Originally by: Illwill Bill
Edited by: Illwill Bill on 04/01/2011 16:53:37
Originally by: Desya Dak'ann
You obviously don't travel to 0.0 often do you? Drakes are out, the Malestorm is in

Mael is the new FOTM? EMP alpha to counter Drake blobs?

Edit: Also, does this mean that the Drake isn't overpowered anymore? Will the Mael be needing a nerf now?


Well nerf something damnit...its all wrong!

I agree battleships should at least wtf pwn a battlecruiser.Every ship should pwn 1 ship class smaller but not more.

fuuu cynabal

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2011.01.04 19:02:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: KhaniKirai

Due to the changes you made long ago, everyone is flying drakes and other battlecruisers nowadays.



This is because titans now **** capital ships, not fleets of subcaps.

000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
Posted - 2011.01.04 19:28:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: KhaniKirai
Due to the changes you made long ago, everyone is flying drakes and other battlecruisers nowadays.


I don't fly BC's... I fly CS's Very Happy

Solenopsis
Posted - 2011.01.04 20:24:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Illwill Bill
You saying we should give the BS-sized weapons the tracking and signature resolution of their smaller bretheren?

There is a reason why modern RL navies consists of advanced cruisers and (super)carriers. Wink


Yes, there is. But its not because cruiser weapons have 'better tracking' than larger weapon platforms in r/l.

FFS, I can't believe I'm even arguing this point to someone trying to equate r/l weaponry uses to Eve weapons. Confused

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
The Black Armada
Posted - 2011.01.04 20:43:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Zendoren on 04/01/2011 20:43:39
Originally by: Solenopsis
Originally by: Illwill Bill
You saying we should give the BS-sized weapons the tracking and signature resolution of their smaller bretheren?

There is a reason why modern RL navies consists of advanced cruisers and (super)carriers. Wink


Yes, there is. But its not because cruiser weapons have 'better tracking' than larger weapon platforms in r/l.

FFS, I can't believe I'm even arguing this point to someone trying to equate r/l weaponry uses to Eve weapons. Confused


Command ships need to be the WTFPOWNMOBILS again. They are one of the hardest and specialized ships to train for and they have declined in prestige as of late with the introduction of T3 ships. However, BC class ships in general should be the best platform for Small to Med fleet fight engagements with battle ships and bigger reserved for large. How we can make this happen, I have no clue! But CCP made internet spaceships, I'm sure they can figure this little game imbalance issue out!

Barakkus
Posted - 2011.01.04 22:20:00 - [13]
 

If you can't hit something with a BS then you need to learn about transversal.

Niveon
Posted - 2011.01.04 22:39:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Solenopsis
But its not because cruiser weapons have 'better tracking' than larger weapon platforms in r/l.
Pretty sure I'd hit small, fast moving things better with small arms fire than naval BS cannons... and that if that small thing was tackled that the BS guns would wreck it fast... what's wrong with Eve?

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.04 22:52:00 - [15]
 

I am currently flying a hyperion in small fast gangsWink

Caldari 5
Amarr
The Element Syndicate
Blazing Angels Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.04 22:59:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: HeIIfire11
I agree battleships should at least wtf pwn a battlecruiser.Every ship should pwn 1 ship class smaller but not more.


I'd agree with this, Every ship class should be able to kill the class 1 size smaller. We currently have 2 ship classes that aren't doing this too well atm, Battleships and Destroyers.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.04 23:05:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Caldari 5
Originally by: HeIIfire11
I agree battleships should at least wtf pwn a battlecruiser.Every ship should pwn 1 ship class smaller but not more.


I'd agree with this, Every ship class should be able to kill the class 1 size smaller. We currently have 2 ship classes that aren't doing this too well atm, Battleships and Destroyers.


Battleships are fine with taking out BC, you just have to fit them right and not suck flying them.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.04 23:08:00 - [18]
 

Typically in 1 on 1 fight, a close range PvP battleship will defeat the close range PvP battlecruiser

However, the time it takes for 1 battleship to kill the battlecruiser is long enough to let bc's friends come over from up to 2 systems away. Very few fights in EVE are 1 on 1, I'd say less than 10%. And when it comes to fleet vs fleet, the extra mobility and superior tackle power of bc outweighs the extra DPS and hp of battleship.

Not to mention that BC dps is greater than that of battleships when fighting smaller targets such as HACs, recons, intis, dictors, cruisers, frigs.

Not to mention that cost of losing BC is at least 60 million cheaper due to rigs.

The only role battleships are dominating are fleet sniper setups. That's a rather narrow niche. The cheapness of battlecruisers is primary reason for their popularity.

Jane Griffin
Posted - 2011.01.04 23:16:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: baltec1
I am currently flying a hyperion in small fast gangsWink


Same, shield buffer 3 TE's and 2 stabs and you can hit well.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.04 23:48:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: baltec1 on 04/01/2011 23:48:20
Originally by: Jane Griffin


Same, shield buffer 3 TE's and 2 stabs and you can hit well.


I so want to get a vindicator. OMFG BS damage with great tracking coupled with speed and manoverability of a BCTwisted Evil

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.01.05 00:01:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: baltec1
I so want to get a vindicator. OMFG BS damage with great tracking coupled with speed and manoverability of a BCTwisted Evil
And with tanking ability of 2 BC tops.

Just curious, how do you plan to use it in PvP? I have always been interested in that

My observations show that most 0.0 alliance people who have faction battleships, only take them out when they have strong support and no serious enemy threat. They quickly change back to HACs / BC when there's any serious fighting or roaming involved.

I also know, by experience, that before The Great Nano Nerf, faction bs were used more boldly in 0.0. They were used in serous engagements and long roaming runs. You could even find solo people running 0.0 in nano Maches. I haven't seen solo faction bs since those days.

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.01.05 00:05:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: KhaniKirai
Yup, its time to undo the changes to large weapons and cruise/torp changes.

Due to the changes you made long ago, everyone is flying drakes and other battlecruisers nowadays.
Only reason for that is simple: the medium weapons are way too good and the large weapons can barely hit battlecruisers and lower anymore.

Yes a BS should nail a cruiser and also a battlecruiser, not like it is now, that a good pilot in a BC can nail the average BS pilot EASILY.

rant off.


I agree... Medium-sized projectile weps are just too damned powerful on the Drake! NERF 'em!!!

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.05 00:21:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
And with tanking ability of 2 BC tops.

Just curious, how do you plan to use it in PvP? I have always been interested in that

My observations show that most 0.0 alliance people who have faction battleships, only take them out when they have strong support and no serious enemy threat. They quickly change back to HACs / BC when there's any serious fighting or roaming involved.

I also know, by experience, that before The Great Nano Nerf, faction bs were used more boldly in 0.0. They were used in serous engagements and long roaming runs. You could even find solo people running 0.0 in nano Maches. I haven't seen solo faction bs since those days.


They still fly around. There was a Mach gang in venal the other day. As for me, I currently fly my battleships much like a cane only with no tackle and more DPS orientated. I quite fancy a nightmare as a solo death machine but you need a lot of cash for that. DHB Wildcat's nightmare is a monster both in space and on the wallet.

For the moment I'll be sticking with the hyperion but once I get the isk rolling in I will treat myself to a vindi for the gigglesVery Happy

Selinate
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.05 04:03:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Selinate on 05/01/2011 04:03:35
Originally by: Niveon
Pretty sure I'd hit small, fast moving things better with small arms fire than naval BS cannons... and that if that small thing was tackled that the BS guns would wreck it fast... what's wrong with Eve?


The BS artillery guns were invented before the cruise missile. This is why they use these "Advanced Cruisers" (translated destroyers). I would think it's much easier to fit a cruise missile platform on a boat than a giant artillery gun.

Please note, though, that these "cannons" weren't meant to hit small targets, and in real life (hah), ships nowadays and back then had different weapons systems for different adversaries (small to large, quick to slow, etc.)... This is why I think it's utter crap that a battleship in Eve has absolutely nothing that can kill a frigate quickly aside from drones, and takes away a LOT from the game that a frigate can't roflstomp a battleship if they're quick and very clever, nor can a battleship wtfpwn a frigate with some other weapon syste. Dumbs down the game a bit imo, but w/e...

Vabjekf
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.05 04:31:00 - [25]
 

The bismark was a battleship that pwnt a battlecruiser. The battlecruisers corp got angry and blobbed it. They tackled it and jammed it, and still couldn't kill it. It self destructed out of boredom.

baltec1
Posted - 2011.01.05 13:44:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Vabjekf
The bismark was a battleship that pwnt a battlecruiser. The battlecruisers corp got angry and blobbed it. They tackled it and jammed it, and still couldn't kill it. It self destructed out of boredom.


Wrong Battleship. You are thinking of the one that got camped in at a neut station in south America. Bismark got hotdropped by a carrier then blobbed.

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2011.01.05 14:02:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Barakkus
If you can't hit something with a BS then you need to learn about transversal.


This tbh, by the sounds of it OP and some others are very poor pilots indeed.

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2011.01.05 15:27:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Selinate
Edited by: Selinate on 05/01/2011 04:03:35
Originally by: Niveon
Pretty sure I'd hit small, fast moving things better with small arms fire than naval BS cannons... and that if that small thing was tackled that the BS guns would wreck it fast... what's wrong with Eve?


The BS artillery guns were invented before the cruise missile. This is why they use these "Advanced Cruisers" (translated destroyers). I would think it's much easier to fit a cruise missile platform on a boat than a giant artillery gun.

Please note, though, that these "cannons" weren't meant to hit small targets, and in real life (hah), ships nowadays and back then had different weapons systems for different adversaries (small to large, quick to slow, etc.)... This is why I think it's utter crap that a battleship in Eve has absolutely nothing that can kill a frigate quickly aside from drones, and takes away a LOT from the game that a frigate can't roflstomp a battleship if they're quick and very clever, nor can a battleship wtfpwn a frigate with some other weapon syste. Dumbs down the game a bit imo, but w/e...


Only dumbs the game down if you're too dumb to realize that...if youn want weapons to kill frigates you have to mount frigate scale weapons. I know, I know..."Mixing ranges is bad", well if you dont want to do that be sure to bring frigates with you as cover then.


Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.01.05 15:42:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Illwill Bill on 05/01/2011 15:46:36
Originally by: Solenopsis
Originally by: Illwill Bill
You saying we should give the BS-sized weapons the tracking and signature resolution of their smaller bretheren?

There is a reason why modern RL navies consists of advanced cruisers and (super)carriers. Wink


Yes, there is. But its not because cruiser weapons have 'better tracking' than larger weapon platforms in r/l.

FFS, I can't believe I'm even arguing this point to someone trying to equate r/l weaponry uses to Eve weapons. Confused


I was mainly thinking about cruisers' mobility and carriers' ability to deploy their firepower in a much more flexible way and not the actual weapons, but I can promise you that the Yamato would have a much harder time tracking a speed boat than it would have tracking another battleship. On the other hand, that speed boat would have been obliterated in one hit if it actually was hit.

What I am saying is that is perfectly logical for a larger weapons platform to be less flexible than a smaller one. The added firepower is awesome, but comes at the cost of speed. Please note that I am not implying that there isn't any need for balancing. It's just that I don't think large weapons should be boosted simply because they are larger.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.01.05 15:46:00 - [30]
 

OP needs to learn about transversal. Only way a BC could killa a BS is if it had scram/web while BS did not. I regularly gank BC with a BS, just make sure not to try and orbit or something stupid you do with small ships.


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