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Musashi IV
Posted - 2011.01.03 11:42:00 - [121]
 

EVE is just about the only mmo where you can attack anyone at anytime if you are prepared to pay the price. You pirates make me sick with all your complaining!!

Aeronwen Carys
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.05 21:44:00 - [122]
 

Why do so many people find it so hard to grasp a simple concept? EVE is a game, one that every single subscriber is free to play in whatever manner they see fit, as long as it is within the boundaries set by the game mechanics and the rules.

No one has the right to try and dictate someone elses play style, mission runners need to stop whining about pirates, gankers need to stop whining about carebears, etc etc. I personally would be considered a care bear, that is MY choice. I CHOOSE to avoid PvP wherever possible unless it is on MY terms, but I would no more try and tell you to stop killing people than I would expect you to try and tell me not to mission.

There is nothing wrong with PvP in this game, the mechanics are fine, whats broken are the players pre-concieved ideas and expectations. Change yourselves before you lay blame on the game.

MoonDragn
Caldari
J0urneys End
Posted - 2011.01.06 17:26:00 - [123]
 

I don't think I've ever had a fair fight with pirates in EVE. They always attack you in numbers. Why don't you guys fight one on one instead of in gangs?

Diesel47
Posted - 2011.01.06 18:54:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: Diesel47 on 06/01/2011 18:55:47
I for one agree with the OP.

He is right on the fact that there are too many cowards in the game that will only fight you when they are 100% sure they will win.

I'm talking about 5 vs one type things. Some carebears have said "Why would you fight if you know you are going to lose" This is not the point the OP is making. He is asking for fights where you cannot know the outcome, and In reality I've had a few of these fights and I will admit it was the most fun I've ever had in this game. Sometimes I lost sometimes I won, but still It was very fun.

Seems like back then... (When there was no T2 and no caps) Most fights where like this.. A couple guys see each other in a belt and start fighting, or one small gang sees another gang and they engage. From my PVP experience so far... The majority of "fights" I see are severely lopsided. Where a very large force kills a single or smaller force with ease. I've done it before, I've been on the large side and the small side. BOTH sides suck. Blobbing and ganking is boring and stupid. The only people who think blobbing is fun are the type of people who say nonsense like "Games are about winning". No they aren't. The people who only care about winning are the ones who blob and they are also the ones who DO NOT KNOW how to play a game.

Newsflash, EvE is a game. Games are meant to be fun. If you don't know how to have fun and all you care about is winning then you need to figure out a better self esteem booster. Actual gamers don't play so they can improve their crappy view on themselves. They play to challenge themselves and have Good Fights. One of the first things children learn while in preschool is that games are not about who wins or who loses. It is about having fun. Stop being a bunch of kids.

If you never had a Good Fight before then I don't expect you to understand, just keep running your missions and keep mining, but don't come in here and talk a boatload about PvP then say "I would consider myself to be a carebear... But pvp is *load of BS*"


LordOfDespair
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:00:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: LordOfDespair on 06/01/2011 19:00:31
Originally by: Brannoncyll
Originally by: Sean Faust
Originally by: Brannoncyll
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.
- Sun Tzu


And how does that in any way translate to a game where you pay money for the privilege of being able to engage in battles for recreation?


I don't. I pay for a sandbox that I can enjoy with my friends. A game where planning and strategy matter more than so-called 'combat prowess'. Some people don't want to play your way. Deal with it or move elsewhere. I hear World Of Warcraft's arenas are getting quite exciting these days.


So your "combat prowess" is low so you rely on "strategy". Which in simple terms is saying "I suck at PvP so I bring 5 friends to make sure I win."

I understand the blobber mindset now. Grow a pair.

Letrange
Minmatar
Red Horizon Inc
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:12:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Damien Khan

Everything leading up to the fight = boring
The fight = fun
Everything after the fight = boring


Well now we know why you are unable to find a PvP fight. That part at the start that you can't be assed to do? That's the part that finds you the PvP fight you are looking for. Ignore it at your peril.

Learn to scout, or go play an FPS.

EVE is one of the only games that values and rewards good scout/intel work in it's PvP. Anything that detracts from this lessens the game. Although removing local everywhere would indeed make things more interesting and fun (It does, now that they've fixed the overview/probe issues). The problem for someone like you is that it would make scouting even MORE important than it is now (just ask any WH dweller), so you'd have even more trouble finding fights than you currently do, since you state that you don't like the scout phase.

Uzrial
Posted - 2011.01.06 19:13:00 - [127]
 

Who say's PvP is just blowing people up in space? Whenever I go to sell or buy on the market, whenever I go to put up or purchase a contract, whenever I find an exploration site, or find a nice juicy belt, I am very much so engaging in PvP. I have to compete with other players to get the best price possible for what I am buying or selling, I have to compete to get to the best exploration site first, and I have to compete to strip the nicest belt of its nicest ore first. The PvP of the industrial world is very much so just as cutthroat as blowing people up, billions can be lost through mistakes and billions can be won through careful planning. Even mission runners must PvP when a ninja comes in, they have to salvage before them or play tractor beam games to annoy them enough to leave. PvP is not about fighting, it is about competition.

PEACE!

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.01.06 20:40:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Damien Khan
3-5 man gangs every night

Why do you blob?

Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle
Nostradamus Effect
Posted - 2011.01.06 22:21:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Diesel47
Edited by: Diesel47 on 06/01/2011 18:55:47
I for one agree with the OP.

He is right on the fact that there are too many cowards in the game that will only fight you when they are 100% sure they will win.




the problem is, if you take on a fight and lose, most of the time you get laughed at in local. Real sweet...

Once, I took on an Onyx in a Drake. Of course he destroyed me, but after, he gave me props for not running away. I don't even think I was PVP fitted. Just wanted to try my luck, ya know?

I would jump at the chance to do it again, but here's the thing. I'm not going to take on a ship while I'm PVE fitted. Most of the time, when you find someone in a system, they're not PVPing. They're PVEing. Why would anyone go fight with the wrong tools? So yeah, they hide or dock up, because PVP is not what they're after. Nothing wrong with that.

When I go looking for someone to fight in low or null sec on my own, I'll fight anything, as long as it's 1 on 1. I don't care what type of ship they have, or what type of ship I have. But I'm certainly not going to go after someone who's in a gang, and good luck trying to get someone who's not looking for a fight.

There are 3 types of PVP:
One on One, Small Gang, and Large Fleet. Throw everyone in to a sandbox and see what the odds are of the two proper gangs meeting up for a skirmish. Then add in the random chance of one of those not wanting to fight the other even if the two match up. The odds pretty slim. If you're looking for fun PVP times, join FW or a Sov Holding alliance that is not currently engaged in a full scale war, and join thm. In a few of the large alliances I used to be in, there used to be roams every night if you wanted to join.

Greg lawlers
Posted - 2011.01.06 23:00:00 - [130]
 

whats that i hear? whining about not being able to lock down targets because your shield gank brutix fit doesn't have a sensor booster w/ script?

find people that want to fight, and fight them. dodgers are going to dodge, suck it up and deal with it.

O_o

if not can i haz your stuff?

Misanthra
Posted - 2011.01.06 23:58:00 - [131]
 

Station games...don't play them. Join or just go watch orphans and privateer corps work in jita. They do quite well at station kills, well enough to pay to have damn near every major alliance in the game war dec'd months on end and keep their players wallets healthy (on my combat char with 1 year of null sec alliance time I can count the number of weeks I wasn't red to either of them on 2 hands, my main didn't see jita for a year until I began an empire break).


Timers....kill your targets or deal with it. You jumped a target and got your timer, he didn't freeze up, burned backed to gate and jumped out again and you can't follow him. Tactical retreat is a viable tactic. This not avoiding pvp...its trying to avoid a stupid ship loss. PVP does not equal dying like a muppet.

People who cloak/safe/staion up...may be in pve fits. This the smart move. PVE vs. PVP usually ends up bad for the PVE ship. Already at one major disadvantage...pve tank usually spec'ed for 2 highest damages of the local flavor of rat. Is usually active as well. Ammo for the 2 resists not tanked well, neut in the highs on some ships and life much easier for the attacker. Second disadvantage could be the rats softened the pve ship up a bit. Got a few km's where npcs assisted in the ship popping.

Adamantor
Caldari
Legendary Knights
Vorpal's Edge
Posted - 2011.01.07 00:11:00 - [132]
 

Edited by: Adamantor on 07/01/2011 00:25:10
Edited by: Adamantor on 07/01/2011 00:22:22

Sorry my friend. Our low-sec PVP fleets get fights where each ship matters. We tend to fly a squad of 10 or so and it keeps every ship relevant. We engage any opposing fleet we can when there's a reasonable chance of success. That's defined by the FC and based on our best intel at the time. We've been in fights outnumbered 2 to 1. We also try to avoid dropping our 10 ship fleet on a single ship. We don't do this to spare the poor solo pilot, we do it at the hope for an escalation or at the very least, to conceal the rest of our fleet when it would otherwise be wasteful and pointless to shoot a single ship with our entire fleet.

I will freely admit on some nights, it's harder to find a fight than we'd like. Some nights, we might never get a fight, others we get several. We also only engage red's (anti-pirate) which further limits our OP's, but we prefer to fly this way and appreciate the pirates (or reds) who bring good fights our way.

On your last point, I completely agree. Closely fought battles are the best fun possible and we try to get in and fight them whenever we can.

You have to be patient and understand that it can take some time and effort to get these fights. Use alts in various locations to try to locate good potential engagements. Use the map to locate hot spots of recent kills. Coordinate with other corps/alliances to get the latest intel on possible enemy fleets. Perhaps most of all, keep the size of your fleet within reason. If you're fielding 50 ships and expect to get a fight from a fleet of 10, you're likely pushing that 10 ship fleet out of system. As you noted, tools like local, directional and other means of intel will likely be utilized to blow your cover and most FC's, faced with overwhelming odds and a means to retreat to fight another day, will do just that.

One other point. The reason people don't engage everything they see is because many players work hard for the ISK in their wallet. That's time invested and when you lose that ship or clone, it's time lost. Each player has a different tolerance for that loss. Our fleets fly to fight and we expect loss. Don't fly it, if you can't afford to lose it applies. As the FC, if I lead us into a good fight where we stood a chance lost some ships, killed some ships, the fleet will likely have had fun and hopefully learned some lessons that made the fleet more effective. If I lead them into a 50 ship gate camp where we get torn apart, had little to no chance, my fleet will probably not end the night happy that their hard earned ISK thrown about like so much star dust.

Good luck

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2011.01.07 00:32:00 - [133]
 

I think the OP is just trolling but for the off chance of a genuine question, I will answer:

Anything you do in an MMO, everything you achieve amounts to time, time you have to invest into the game and with the death penalty of EVE, the loss is the time you need to purchase the items again, assemble the ship, transport it somewhere etc. So not many people look forward to invest their own precious time just so that others could have fun with no return.

The other thing is: blobs, superblobs and metagaming. In EVE PvP is always imbalanced, because both sides will only engage if they are sure to win, cannot disengage, or have something extremely important to protect. Now throw into this mix so-called elite pvpler, like the old BoB or TRI who would use TS spionage, bribing players of a corp or a alliance into shutting down a POS etc. None of this metagaming stuff gave them any 'good' fights they claimed to want, but rather some easy victories. They also paid for it, because others adapted used metagaming against them and so on.

Fast forward to today and as a result we see only extremely paranoid superpowers and backstabbing and cowardice are their virtues.

Goose99
Posted - 2011.01.07 00:35:00 - [134]
 

When your gang catch a lone carebear in pve fit, that's pvp, when you run into a large camp that outnumbers you, that's not pvp.Cool

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.01.07 02:53:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Goose99
When your gang catch a lone carebear in pve fit, that's pvp, when you run into a large camp that outnumbers you, that's not pvp.Cool


More in keeping with the OP's sentiment would be:

When your gang catches a lone carebear in a PVE fit just off a station and he docks, that's flagrantly exploiting game mechanics to escape PVP.

When your gang is caught by a thrice-larger gang on a gate, and manages to jump through the gate to escape slaughter, that's just PVP tactics.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.01.07 04:36:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Damien Khan
So, my question is. Where is the PvP? Where are the fights that aren't horribly one-sided and over before they began?


.... You srsly need to get out more

Ackarii
Posted - 2011.01.07 14:18:00 - [137]
 

I agree with the OP about finding 'good' pvp fights. I think killboards are more of an issue with this than anything. Take away their chance to grow their epeen and some people will be more likely to engage.

monkfish1234
Caldari
The Knights of Spamalot
Posted - 2011.01.07 15:40:00 - [138]
 

imo goto providence, I love CVA. One of the few places where if you fly around long enough a fight will come to you.

that said amamake and a few other systems will usually get you into some sort of fight too if your desperate

Drakarin
Gallente
Absentia Libertas Solus
Posted - 2011.01.07 15:53:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Drakarin on 07/01/2011 15:54:19
Just remove lossmails. It's that simple. Personally I'd say remove the entire killmail system, but I doubt they'd have the balls to do that, considering the main type of player in EvE is the KM farmer (not in high sec obviously). Huge blobs of players will literally wander the stars, not looking for a good fight, not looking for fun or excitement, or god forbid a challenge, nope. Just out for easy risk free kills to boost their epeens.

Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
Posted - 2011.01.07 17:18:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Damien Khan
This is supposed to be the most hardcore PVP MMO on the market right now, but you can go DAYS without getting a single kill no matter how hard you look because people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win with no losses.


Source?
You can also shoot your buddies to have killmails...

Quote:
I've gone out looking for fights in smallish 3-5 man gangs every night for the past week and the only engagements we got were when we were blobbed by groups of 30 or more, or covert ops ganked. EVERYTHING else docked up/cloaked up the second we appeared in local or tried to play station games with us. We were even willing to fight while outnumbered 2:1 as long as we had a chance of taking a few of them out before we died, but even with even odds or odds that were only slightly in their favor they would not engage.


Mabe i should try to explin it in another language than english, do you UNDERSTAND that you can't force people to do what they don't whant to?
DO you even understant what is wrong in you opinion? -i'm pretty sure you don't.

Quote:
So, my question is. Where is the PvP? Where are the fights that aren't horribly one-sided and over before they began?


Guys like you don't give people like me the will to pvp, that simple.

Keep crying, keep gating, keep camping, keep ganking and all you'll get is less pvp than you have right now, this is what you are unable to understand.

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2011.01.07 17:26:00 - [141]
 

If you're looking for a fair fight you're doing something wrong.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.07 17:50:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Mr LaForge
If you're looking for a fair fight you're doing something wrong.

Only true if you are only playing for kms, in which case i believe PL has a nice KM generator, ask and maybe they give it to you, much easier than roaming.

Forum Guy
Posted - 2011.01.07 19:05:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Damien Khan
people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win with no losses.


That is true of world pvp in other MMOs also. But entering a fight that you know you will probably lose is just foolish, even when drunk.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.07 19:17:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Forum Guy
Originally by: Damien Khan
people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win with no losses.


That is true of world pvp in other MMOs also. But entering a fight that you know you will probably lose is just foolish, even when drunk.

I am kinda repeating myself, but:
Only true if you are only playing for kms, in which case i believe PL has a nice KM generator, ask and maybe they give it to you, much easier than roaming.

Forum Guy
Posted - 2011.01.07 19:21:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Forum Guy
Originally by: Damien Khan
people will always avoid fights unless they're guaranteed to win with no losses.


That is true of world pvp in other MMOs also. But entering a fight that you know you will probably lose is just foolish, even when drunk.

I am kinda repeating myself, but:
Only true if you are only playing for kms, in which case i believe PL has a nice KM generator, ask and maybe they give it to you, much easier than roaming.


How many pvpers are not interested in the KB. Some corps won't even recruit you if your death : kill ratio is poor. Plus loses can be expensive in Eve so no point throwing isk away for the sake of it.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.07 19:24:00 - [146]
 

It is called throwing away isk for good fights, some people still play for fun instead of stats, so they havent got too much issues with it. Of course the ratio between the fun found in the fight and the ammount of mindless pve required to get new isk needs to be taken into account.

D'Leh Mannuck
Posted - 2011.01.07 19:28:00 - [147]
 

EVE is a MMO which translates to Massive MULTIPLAYER Online.

I emphasized the Multiplayer because of one reason. If someone can bring more people to fight than you is it their fault?

Bring a bigger gang next time and then you will see the other side will bring even more to counter you.
Why do you think people form corporations and alliances? So they have more chat?

No it's to work together to counter threats they can handle. And if the threat is too high why would they fight on the opponents terms?
Part of smart strategy is to determine the battle situation and not let the opponent determine it.

One of the biggest problems EVE actually has is too many whiners crying about the fact that other people don't play as they want them to play.
Instead of finding a counter they rather cry and winge because life's so unfair.
The fact you complain you don't get the fights you want makes you a bigger carebear than someone mining veldspar in high sec.

Keira Matrix
Posted - 2011.01.07 19:34:00 - [148]
 

Edited by: Keira Matrix on 07/01/2011 19:38:15
Edited by: Keira Matrix on 07/01/2011 19:34:43
Originally by: Furb Killer
It is called throwing away isk for good fights, some people still play for fun instead of stats, so they havent got too much issues with it. Of course the ratio between the fun found in the fight and the ammount of mindless pve required to get new isk needs to be taken into account.



Good fights? How can a fight be good if it's unevenly matched. The outcome of the type of fights that we are talking about are almost guaranteed.

But some of the more desirable corps with good reputations require a good kill : death ratio, so stats can be important because players have deemed it so.

There is a case for making it easier to pvp (cost related), but that would potentially change the nature of the game so not somewhere most people would want to go (me included).

Edit: posted on wrong character (about time I deleted this one)

Liz Laser
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2011.01.07 23:37:00 - [149]
 

I didn't read the replies, but to respond to the O.P.

You're simply doing it wrong.

PvP is like fishing.

My guess is you aren't using good bait.

The best bait now is SuperCarriers and Titans. People will come from 60 jumps away "to get in on the kill".

A simple carrier can attract "pirates" from as far as 20 jumps away.

I can't afford those, so it takes me and my friends longer, but eventually someone will try and jump a covetor we hang out in a belt in low-sec while the rest are cloaked and waiting for nibbles.

The only other advice I can offer, is if you don't want to use bait, then attack people's POS or stations. PUNISH them for not coming out to defend it.

I found the "fishing" thing too boring, and now about the only thing I login for is POS bashes. Throw in my perrennial bad luck in getting separated from the fleet (disconnects, jump bridges running out of fuel, etc.) and I get PvP probably about a third of the times I undock.

Note, I am currently on vacation from Eve due to the WoW expansion. But I doubt much has changed in 2 months.

Deandra Walran
Posted - 2011.01.08 00:29:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Damien Khan
Where is the PvP?


Ship v Ship PvP is only one form of PvP EVE has to offer (and probably the least vicous).


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