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Aamrr
Posted - 2010.12.29 22:19:00 - [1]
 

I keep hearing this fitting being bantered about whenever buffing the legion is discussed, as it's supposedly the saving grace of this otherwise lackluster ship. However, I don't recall ever seeing an actual fitting for it.

This seems to be the best I can get out of it, but I'm still not impressed. Am I missing something?

[Legion, HAM100AB]

Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization
Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II

Shadow Serpentis 100MN Afterburner
Warp Disruptor II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II


Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.12.29 22:39:00 - [2]
 

100mn on cruisers is impractical. Unless you are making this fit for a very specific situation, against specific opponent, you get no benefit, only downsides.

Also, if you want missiles, Tengu can do the same thing, better

Aamrr
Posted - 2010.12.29 22:43:00 - [3]
 

And that's the conclusion I'm coming to. What is so great about this fitting (or something similar) that it justifies this ship?

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.29 23:09:00 - [4]
 

Try the Fuel Catalyst subsystem. And T2 armour rigs are expensive...
That said, expectations high for the next Garmonation
http://genos.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=8135099
Quote:
Zev: 2010-11-27 14:58:37 So, did you find this better, or worse than the tengu
Garmon: 2010-11-27 16:46:13 better
Hmm what ganglinked ships was in system this time Twisted Evil

I EFTed the idea too and didn't really get any better than that fit, or specific thermic and em hardeners. Also couldn't decide if TP or cap booster was best, and TTN gives you more cpu than DS if you want to be cheap on mods but more jammable.

If the HAM fit is any good, this might be a cheap alternative with lasers.

[Legion, PvP 100MN AB]
Armor EM Hardener II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Heat Sink II
Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener

Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Warp Disruptor II
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I

Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers


TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.12.30 00:03:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: TimMc on 30/12/2010 00:06:31
I'd have to see it in action with HAMs. I watched garmon using the 100mn tengu with HML, so firing often from 30-40km away. HAMs make you quite vulnerable I expect.


Ramming power on that legion must have been godly though.


Edit: I've had this loki version sitting in EFT for weeks now. I'd have to sell some toys to fly it as running low on isk lately.

[Loki, AB]
Damage Control II
Republic Fleet Nanofiber Structure
Tracking Enhancer II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer

Core A-Type 100MN Afterburner
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
True Sansha Medium Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M

Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints II
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints II
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension II

Loki Defensive - Amplification Node
Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Loki Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Loki Offensive - Projectile Scoping Array
Loki Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst


Warrior II x5


With nomads and a boosting alt/friend, stats look awesome.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.30 07:19:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: TimMc
With nomads and a boosting alt/friend, stats look awesome.


Sig-tanking Lokis come seriously close to game-breaking. Try it with Halos and an X-instinct pill, enjoy your destroyer-sized sig radius. Or frigate-sized if you pop a strong and go with high grade Halos.

arbalesttom
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.30 08:51:00 - [7]
 

Garmon runs his hamlegion with a link loki and a link legion with appropriate links, and ofcoarse a buddy in a prowler for boosters and for scooping looties.Very Happy

Captain Nares
Posted - 2010.12.30 09:06:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Aamrr



1) Check Garmon's loadout. It's activetank (~1900 omni overloaded).
2) Such things are used with gang boosters from SC only.
3) Don't think that we should take into account a fit which needs 2 ganglink SC and a Garmon to be viable when we speak about Legion buff.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2010.12.30 11:25:00 - [9]
 

Oversized ab is only good for gtfo, you wont be able to kite/outtrack any decently skilled opponent if you want to keep point. Ofc most ppl are dumb but still...

And whatever fit you are going to use, fit cap booster.

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.12.30 11:43:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: TimMc on 30/12/2010 15:06:33
Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: TimMc
With nomads and a boosting alt/friend, stats look awesome.


Sig-tanking Lokis come seriously close to game-breaking. Try it with Halos and an X-instinct pill, enjoy your destroyer-sized sig radius. Or frigate-sized if you pop a strong and go with high grade Halos.


At the moment that fit has the sig of a destroyer when being boosted by another t3 or claymore. Nomads I think are required to get the align time down, but Halos would make you disgustingly small.

Edit: EFT says hg nomads give 58 sig and 16.8 sec align.
Nomads give 71 sig and 12.5 sec align.

Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.12.30 12:10:00 - [11]
 

The Hac Legion with the 100mn is absolutely killer.

It only does 55 dps more than a Zealot but its Str8 line speed to dictate range and its massive tank means its basically a untouchable Zealot with a monster Tank.

Of the Richer smaller Elite groups like CH was these were amazing, so like all things Amarr they get better in Groups.

30-40 Sniper Zealots can take out larger groups of BS`s but Sniper AB Legions can kill any other groups, where as Zealots Heel is Drake or Arty Maels the Legion Will murder both, Drake because Its bigger tank and Godly resists and Mael because trans and small sig will save it.

I agree the legion is the least solid in Solo/Small gang but when done right in the Sniper Role its the best IMO by far, and they fit seamlessly in with other Hacs, and if you are in one you will live through things having 4x the tank, and Higher resistest to make your logi`s love you.

Willl Adama
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2010.12.30 16:30:00 - [12]
 

One thing about the 100mn ham legion is that it can have a massive buffer along with active tank, unlike the tengu that has a very weak buffer making it extremly vulnerable when caught by overwhelming dps.
That's why HAMLs can work with it, since it doesnt have to kite as much as the tengu (with hlms).

Check out garmon's fit. Basically it has the buffer of a heavily plated BS (slaved), with the active tank of hyperion. Add to that the cruiser-sized sig raduis which it has even whem moving at mwd-speed (immune to scrams), making it awesome at dictating terms of engagement when facing small/medium sized gangs.


Needs pirate implants and leadership alt to really be good though

Aamrr
Posted - 2010.12.30 21:52:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Willl Adama
One thing about the 100mn ham legion is that it can have a massive buffer along with active tank, unlike the tengu that has a very weak buffer making it extremly vulnerable when caught by overwhelming dps.
That's why HAMLs can work with it, since it doesnt have to kite as much as the tengu (with hlms).

Check out garmon's fit. Basically it has the buffer of a heavily plated BS (slaved), with the active tank of hyperion. Add to that the cruiser-sized sig raduis which it has even whem moving at mwd-speed (immune to scrams), making it awesome at dictating terms of engagement when facing small/medium sized gangs.


Needs pirate implants and leadership alt to really be good though


So I'm hearing implants, leadership alt, deadspace fittings...

...how is this supposed to be so overpowered that we can't buff the legion again?

Willl Adama
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2010.12.30 22:19:00 - [14]
 

M8, I never said it was overpowered. By all means, buff it.

However, your cannot make any of the other strategic cruisers perform this well as a closerange brawl ship (the proteus, perhaps) even with all the things you mentioned.

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.30 22:58:00 - [15]
 

Eager to see an uber proteus...Very HappySmileNeutralughSadCrying or Very sad

NoLimit Soldier
Posted - 2010.12.30 22:59:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: NoLimit Soldier on 30/12/2010 23:01:51
Quote:
M8, I never said it was overpowered. By all means, buff it. However, your cannot make any of the other strategic cruisers perform this well as a closerange brawl ship (the proteus, perhaps) even with all the things you mentioned.


This. It isn't overpowered, just honestly a single person can't pilot much better for close range small gang brawls.


I would LOVE to see a kill mail of one (or the 100mn HML tengu) with less than a dozen people though.

-100mn HML tengu pilot

**Edit: don't be discouraged because of EFT. This is one of those things that can't really be explained without showing you. I am sure SOMEONE will link the movie the guy made with both the legion and tengu setup in 100mn setup.

In short though, the AB is to GTFO, pull gangs apart, or chase fleeing guys (who don't do a 180 and let you fly by them)

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2010.12.30 23:51:00 - [17]
 

Its in no way overpowered. Legion is just better for buffer because of slaves and tengu for active because of crystals.

Both are pretty underwhelming without pirate implants, high tier mods and gang boosting. With them you can take on small gangs "solo" - but well prepared gangs will force you to disengage or kill you anyway. Its unlikely you will meet them often though.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.31 22:14:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Its in no way overpowered. Legion is just better for buffer because of slaves and tengu for active because of crystals.


Legion also gets a slave-equivalent sub, while the Tengu gets a crystal one.

Quote:
Both are pretty underwhelming without pirate implants, high tier mods and gang boosting. With them you can take on small gangs "solo" - but well prepared gangs will force you to disengage or kill you anyway. Its unlikely you will meet them often though.


You can turn a lot of ships into solopwnmobiles with moderate pimpage. To me the advantage of T3s is even with T2 fit, they can be absolutely incredible.

Gin'no Taki
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.12.31 23:47:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Gin''no Taki on 31/12/2010 23:47:34
Originally by: Daneel Trevize
Eager to see an uber proteus...Very HappySmileNeutralughSadCrying or Very sad

100MN AB/MWD Proteus with 'Localized Injectors' just fine 'on the paper' - pretty low capacitor consumption due to mentioned subsystem, unbelievable speed: >1km/s with 100MN*AB(virtually just like with the 10MN*MWD), ~4km/s with the 100MN*MWD and up to 6km/s with MWD in overload.

But in reality, every time when you enable your 100MN AB/MWD you get an extra 400% to the ship weight, so it will have maneuverability of BSh. If Proteus could be fitted with missiles - probably it would be an option, but with the drones and hybrids...i don't think so.

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.31 23:57:00 - [20]
 

[Proteus, 100mn AB?! cap booster]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Reflective Membrane II

Domination 100MN Afterburner
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier
True Sansha Warp Scrambler
Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II

Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Friction Extension Processor
Proteus Engineering - Supplemental Coolant Injector
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors


Hammerhead II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5

Tackle pimped to enhance the GTFO chances. For cheaper fit with no cap booster but another gun:

[Proteus, 100mn AB?!]
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Energized Reflective Membrane II

Federation Navy 100MN Afterburner
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I

Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
Proteus Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Proteus Engineering - Power Core Multiplier
Proteus Offensive - Hybrid Propulsion Armature
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors


Hammerhead II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5


Hmm, I wonder...

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.01.01 02:10:00 - [21]
 

Yeah, I'm just not seeing the proteus as being a good choice for oversized ABs. It works with HAMs because missiles aren't affected by the transversal of the ship firing them, but for turrets....

Daneel Trevize
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.01 03:18:00 - [22]
 

Yeah, you're either struggling to orbit and shooting null, or just using the ab to get in and out. Mostly you'll be trying to blast them asap then run because the buffer ain't great. Even with logi you can't apply damage and get to speed to tank.
Curse you tengus.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2011.01.01 12:20:00 - [23]
 

Proteus can do just fine with 10mn mwd - with its scram bonus, 300k ehp and 800+ dps.

Originally by: Target Painter
...

Both ships have active and buffer subs and t2 fit strategic cruisers are only a little bit better than commands/hacs - for 2-4x higher price.


TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.01.01 12:53:00 - [24]
 

Hybrids eat cap and blasters have short range. Its not nearly as good as missiles for this kind of thing. Projectiles only kinda manage it from the excessive falloff.

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2011.01.01 21:29:00 - [25]
 

And ham legion can be permatanked by ishkur, vengeance or hawk. Advantages and disadvantages...

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.01.01 23:06:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
And ham legion can be permatanked by ishkur, vengeance or hawk. Advantages and disadvantages...


Yeah tbh I think HAMs are horrible for this kind of fit. Sig radius of the explosion is too easy to tank with frigs, who are most likely to be hot on your tail.

Aamrr
Posted - 2011.01.02 04:05:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
And ham legion can be permatanked by ishkur, vengeance or hawk. Advantages and disadvantages...


Yeah tbh I think HAMs are horrible for this kind of fit. Sig radius of the explosion is too easy to tank with frigs, who are most likely to be hot on your tail.


...and since the Legion's missile subsystem doesn't affect HMLs, nor does it provide any drones...

Salvia Olima
The All-Seeing Eye
Merciless.
Posted - 2011.01.02 10:01:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: NoLimit Soldier

I would LOVE to see a kill mail of one (or the 100mn HML tengu) with less than a dozen people though.

Here is one, no. 7973084 killmail on eve-kill.net

Kostet and his friends killed a friendly PVE Mach nearby, so we decided to set up a trap when they come out from a pockety area, with me as bait. My ship was an armorbuffered HAM-Legion with faction scram and faction web. There were two Cynabals and an Ishtar, they pushed me nearly to half-armor when Kostet popped and the others GTFOd as they realized the Mach and the Hurri jumped in.

I believe that a 50m3 dronebay and the bandwith for 5 drone would help the Legion a lot - given to the hull of the ship, not for some nerfing sub.


 

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