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blankseplocked How about a "Retrain" skill?
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Aggressive Faction Defence Technologies
Posted - 2005.01.17 16:09:00 - [1]

No doubt I'm going to be flamed but what the heck. Laughing

I was just looking at my main char and have realised that I've actually trained some stuff I will never use again. Well I just had an idea where you could retrain skills and forget skills that you don't use.

The way it would work would be like this... Say you change your mind about flying Caldari battleships as you are an Amarr character. You could set Caldari battleship skill to retrain mode and start learning for example Destroyers. For every 2 skill points gained you would gain an extra skill point taken from Caldari battleships and Caldari Battleships would be reduced by 2. This way you would lose half the points learned in the Caldari Battleship skill but the other half would speed up your Destroyer learning.

Just an idea.

David Goodwill
Posted - 2005.01.17 16:16:00 - [2]

Mmmm, would work better if you could swap skill points, not directly 2 for 1, but whatever the rank of the skill is for 1. So battleship is rank 8, so you would need 8 sp from that to translate into 1 sp somewhere else. Not sure how balanced it would be though, and most likely would have trouble working without people abusing it in some way. Rolling Eyes

Quantum Ghost
The Scope
Posted - 2005.01.17 16:29:00 - [3]

I personaly would love this. I like many trained lots of stuff in the begining that I just never use as my character has taken a totaly different track than I saw back then.

Would realy like the ability to move SP's around with a penalty that would make it a once a year type activity.

The rank ratio is a good idea maybe using both ends though.

eg, Rank 8 skill points moved into a rank 2 would give you a 4 to 1 ratio. Of course this should only work that way if you go up the skill rank scale it should be a 2 to 1 ratio.


TOG Empire
Combat Mining and Logistics
Posted - 2005.01.17 21:20:00 - [4]

Umm..... Why would you get an increased ratio from higher rank skills, when the rank multiplies the number of skillpoints you need to level it anyway?

Just move them on a 1 to 1 basis... And that would still mean that you'd need double the SP in a rank 1 to level a rank 2...

Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2005.01.17 21:53:00 - [5]

I like the idea, but there should defitely be the penalty of losing (~half of the) points in the transfer process. This would seem like a really fair way for ccp to make up for their poor ship and weapon balancing!

Pandora Panda
Posted - 2005.01.18 00:38:00 - [6]

Flavor of the Month is partially avoided in EVE by disallowing people to respec their characters. I see no reason for this to change, there are few ships that are completely ineffective in skilled hands. Just consider it an extra challange to take out the dev love-child ships.

Teladi Profit Company
Posted - 2005.01.18 23:12:00 - [7]

normaly i would say no way, you planed char in path now follow it... but... now with ccp "uber" balance that sends some ships, weapons, modules etc. to oblivion (not only make it less but still usefull) for long months i will say: do this at 1 for 1 basis, just put like a 20 day timer, something like: could untrain 1 skill (or even only skill level) for each 20 days (or even longer), to stop players from completly rebalancing accounts, and help those ones that trained they asses only in one line of ships/weapons/tactics that was created useless in the name of mythical "balance" that is in clear favour of caldari and amarr and hate minmatar particulary... heh i want swap my minmatar lvl5 bs for something more usefull like amarr cruiser lvl5 and some points in heavy assaults...

(and please dont say minmatar bs is fine as i could fly effectively all races battleships and see the diffrence)

Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2005.01.19 11:11:00 - [8]

You forgot about problem of different stats for different skills - sometimes even in the same class of skills. So if this option would be on, I think there should be some kind of penalty. If I have 25 Will and 21 Perception it would be good to transfer some of my SP from Interceptor Skill to Battleship Skill.
I think the problem is much more complicated - either it will be open to optimalization or will be too painful for a character to use. So I think CCP should allocate their time for more needed features.

Quantum Ghost
The Scope
Posted - 2005.01.19 12:36:00 - [9]

You know I would even consider using a feature that simply allowed you to delete a skill so that I could reduce my clone costs.

I would rather I had the option to move points from one skill to another at a simle 2-1 ratio, I can't see any abbuse posibilities here as if you keep changing your skill points around you will end up with no skill points at all!

The idea, as I see it, is simply to allow people to change their characters specialisations once in a blue moon.


Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2005.01.19 20:59:00 - [10]

A big no to this.

Doing so would cause even MORE pilots to train for Caldari or Amarr ships. Only this time it's going at an accelerated pace.

Quantum Ghost
The Scope
Posted - 2005.01.20 00:53:00 - [11]

Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
A big no to this.

Doing so would cause even MORE pilots to train for Caldari or Amarr ships. Only this time it's going at an accelerated pace.

I don't get your point.

This idea would allow people to train for Caldari or amarr sure BUT they would loose 50% of the skill points they move so when X race gets a boost in y months time they could only change back if they wanted to loose another 50% of the points moved.


100,000 SP's in Gal BS Moved to Amarr BS would only add 50,000 points to the ammar skill

If they later moved SP's back from Amarr to Gal they would have lost 100,000 SP's in the whole move !

Besides all I want to do is use the SP's that I have wasted in production skills, as that's what I started out wanting to do, on something that I now want to do ! And I am happy to take the hit.

Dont' see the issue persoanly


Shayla Sh'inlux
Eve Space Exploration Guild
Posted - 2005.01.20 12:03:00 - [12]

You don't see the issue?

I certainly do. Even if it causes the loss of half the skillpoints in the skill you are moving, people would still train to the flavor of the month (patch..) when it comes to ships.

You can be sure that if this system was already in place you would see NO Minmatar ships and NO Gallente battleships anywhere in Eve. The reason you still see them now is because a lot of people want to stick with one race and don't want to have a billion ship skills they never use.

If I could trade half my Space Ship Command skills for Caldari or Amarr related ones, I'd do so immediately.
If I could change half the skillpoints I trained in hybrids into energy weapons, I'd do it.

If I could move half the skillpoints I've trained in drones into missile operation, I'd do it.

However, I can't do that, so I'm sticking to blasters and drones and hope CCP will at some point fix them. I'm expecting a hybrid boost somewhere around June this year =/

National Health Service
Posted - 2005.01.20 20:05:00 - [13]

Err no that would be like going to college and getting a qualification in Biology and then being able to swap it for half a similar level qualification in History of Art.

Been discussed many times before and its still a bad idea

Jalia Kovac
Placid Reborn
Posted - 2005.01.21 01:10:00 - [14]

It seems to me that most people want to see these changes largely because of the fact that so much stuff is viewed as gimped. Maybe if we can get some balance into the ships/missiles/turrets situation this would be less of an issue?

Personally, I think it's a nonsensical idea. If you're saying that you should be able to unlearn skills and instantly learn somthing else, are you equating all EVE training with implanted skills? If so, why should you need to train them at all? Just pay your fee and get it downloaded/surgically imbedded...

Believe me, there's times I'd like to toss out my Gallente ship, Hybrid Turret and Drones skills for Caldari ships and Missiles too.

Sparta Alliance
Posted - 2005.01.22 20:13:00 - [15]

I'll say one thing: Life is about choices and the consequences, which are unfortunately unforeseeable sometimes. However, you don't get the relive half your life, therefore the skill choices you made have to stick. Believe me, I want to get rid of my Minmatar right now, and put it in either Raven or Apoc skills, but guess what? I can't! I chose Minmatar, and I'm dealing with it.

Nicholas Celeres
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2005.02.02 03:48:00 - [16]

I think people should stick with concept. Im Caldari for a reason, and there are no other ships I will use besides that of my own Navy. Im the stereotype Caldari ;)

Besides, just because skills are considered worthless now, doesn't mean it will be in the future. If you moved all your drone skills to missile operation - what will you do when "carriers" are released in the game ? (Supposedly plan for this year - not confirmed).

Jalia Kovac
Placid Reborn
Posted - 2005.02.02 22:53:00 - [17]

Edited by: Jalia Kovac on 02/02/2005 22:53:16
Originally by: Nicholas Celeres
I think people should stick with concept. Im Caldari for a reason, and there are no other ships I will use besides that of my own Navy. Im the stereotype Caldari ;)

I'm with you on that. However, those of us who like to take at least some measure of the roleplaying approach to training are probably in the minority. There's a lot powergaming going on out there.

My concept was always for a diplomat/scientist/Intaki freedome fighter. That at least gives me quite a bit of flexibility on the ship piloting front. Now, if only I could convince myself to spend some time on training up Presence like my concept tells me I should! Very Happy

Besides, just because skills are considered worthless now, doesn't mean it will be in the future. If you moved all your drone skills to missile operation - what will you do when "carriers" are released in the game ? (Supposedly plan for this year - not confirmed).

Absolutely. We make choices during skill development. Some may have no immediate practical use (or become less useful to us) but may just come in very handy when you need it suddenly down the road. And yes, I'm kind of banking on Heavy Drones 5 being a prerequisite for carriers, which I'd love to be able to fly one day. Cool

Posted - 2005.02.02 23:56:00 - [18]

What if....(takes a deep breath as its late and i cant be bothered with proper grammar) you can drop something by a skill lvl, BUT its redistributed across all the other skills u have (that obviously arent lvl 5) at a rate of 2:1 loss. therefore..if u decided u no longer wanted gallente bs lvl 5, u could turn the 1/2 mill (or whatever it is, too lazy to look it up) skillpoints drop from lvl 5 to lvl 4 into 1/4 mill points across your other skills. thereby..u cant become an instant specialist in another type of skill as its spread across the 90 or so u have.

Workhorse Industries
Posted - 2005.02.03 00:01:00 - [19]

I can't believe this is still going on. IMO it's a bad idea to be able to move skills from one area to another, just think of them as reminders to plan what you're going to before you try it. If it was implemented tho, as someone has said, you could change your skills depending on flavor of the month, and i'd use it to save myslef the 30day wait til i can use an eagle and T2 rails because i'd just forget how to fly a thorax.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2005.02.03 07:59:00 - [20]

I have to firmly oppose any measure that allows people to redirect their skills, even in penalized fashion such as this two-for-one exchange... anything that allows a year old miner to shuffle a few skills around and become a lethal pvper, ugh.

ByBy Baby
Posted - 2005.02.03 09:29:00 - [21]

But the problem here is that CCP makes one race and ship the flavor of the month (some times 6 month) and some time they even make a good weapon/ship almost useless. So there can’t be any planning, and that’s the whole point of this thread. I think if CCP is going to “balance” the game as poorly they have done now, this option would and should be implemented. Maybe you can change x sp / month you have been playing.

Gee Man
Holy Knights
Posted - 2005.02.03 12:37:00 - [22]

This kinda reminds me back when cruise missiles were nerfed on cruisers, and I had a similar thought on this idea. Seeing as I never fly a Battleship, my cruise missiles skill (trained up to you know what) is now gonna sit idle for a long long time!
What a waste Sad
So if there was a skill revoke/points transfer option, I'd be more than happy on that.

As long as it's a very limited number of SP x-fers over a reasonable amount of time, so it ain't likey to be abused.


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