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Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2010.12.19 11:19:00 - [1]
 

Eve main idea is "you are never safe unless you stay docked". That's why we have suicide gankers, scammers, can flippers, rats and low- and zero-sec.

But small weak ship can stay forever (except dt time) afk when it is cloaked. And you have reds in your system and can't mine and rat.

I think will be good to have something special for cloaked ships. Like long work cycle with recharging period after (like bomb launcher). Or something like ring from Lord of the Rings: for this world you are invisible but other world see you. :) Like special rats will scan for cloaked ship and they will come to it in time depend of its signature (let's say time is about 20-30-60 minutes). Or even special POS module gives you ability to find cloaked ship in this system.

Will be bad for pvp-fans but good for entire Eve i guess.

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2010.12.19 11:30:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt

Will be bad for pvp-fans but good for entire Eve i guess.


lolwat

Shiptoaster
Posted - 2010.12.19 11:31:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Eve main idea is "you are never safe unless you stay docked".


No your safe when you cloaked and in a safe spot. Stoped reading there

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.12.19 12:02:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Tarasina on 19/12/2010 12:02:45
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Eve main idea is "you are never safe unless you stay docked". That's why we have suicide gankers, scammers, can flippers, rats and low- and zero-sec.

But small weak ship can stay forever (except dt time) afk when it is cloaked. And you have reds in your system and can't mine and rat.

I think will be good to have something special for cloaked ships. Like long work cycle with recharging period after (like bomb launcher). Or something like ring from Lord of the Rings: for this world you are invisible but other world see you. :) Like special rats will scan for cloaked ship and they will come to it in time depend of its signature (let's say time is about 20-30-60 minutes). Or even special POS module gives you ability to find cloaked ship in this system.

Will be bad for pvp-fans but good for entire Eve i guess.


The bolded part is pretty much what you sign up for when you go to lowsec/nullsec. It isn't hisec where you can rat in (relative) peace. A lone cloaker isn't the problem. Just team up for ratting/mining.

What would be better is NOT having to cloak everytime you have to take a break (bathroom, food etc). Docking at a station is pretty much suicide, in hostile territory.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.19 12:10:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
And you have reds in your system and can't mine and rat.
Okay, you know what?

When I first joined Eve, I heard a lot of stories about nullsec. The basic idea was that it was lawless and dangerous. You never knew what would happen. You walk around paranoid as if there were always an enormous fleet ready to drop in your ass at any time.

You can rat and mine in a system with an AFK cloaker in it. You just don't want to. This is because it's risky. And, yes, it is. But if you don't like risk, what the hell are you doing in nullsec? Hell, why are you even in a corp?

Now, I know what you're going to say. Why doesn't the cloaker risk anything? And the answer to that is because the cloaking device was intentionally designed to mitigate risk. That's what it's built for. It's meant to make you undetectable. It's meant to provide you safety. Every time I hear somebody talk about AFK cloaking, what they're actually talking about is cloaking, period. Don't feed me ideas about how to balance an anticloak module; The very nature of an anticloak module destroys a person's ability to cloak. Never mind that every single "balancing" act I see made against cloak assumes that the only purpose of a cloak is to let a person sit unprobable in a safe spot.

You think cloaking is overpowered? Here's a clue: Cloaking takes up a high slot, it's CPU heavy, and it butchers your scan resolution. It lets you hide, but that's all it's good for. You can't even ambush with a cloaking device on unless your target is asleep at the wheel. And as for the covops ships, have you seen the tank on those things? As a general rule, they're either made of paper or their DPS sucks. Or both.

What do you think the cloaking device is made for, if not to evade protection?

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.12.19 12:18:00 - [6]
 

If you cannot do anything in your system becuase of one cloacked guy, then your corp are clearly not ready for 0.0 space.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2010.12.19 14:11:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Miss Rabblt on 19/12/2010 14:11:40
Originally by: Black Dranzer

You can rat and mine in a system with an AFK cloaker in it. You just don't want to.


hm... exact the same people was complaining about learning skills. "Yea. You can ignore learning skills. But you simply won't. Because later you will loose time".
And now we haven't them. Why the same is normal for other aspects? Very Happy

Originally by: Black Dranzer

You think cloaking is overpowered? Here's a clue: Cloaking takes up a high slot, it's CPU heavy, and it butchers your scan resolution. It lets you hide, but that's all it's good for. You can't even ambush with a cloaking device on unless your target is asleep at the wheel. And as for the covops ships, have you seen the tank on those things? As a general rule, they're either made of paper or their DPS sucks. Or both.


hm. show me at least 1 ship (except frighters, shuttles and zephyr) which can't fit and run cloak perma? And every ship (not sure for 100% though) has 1-2 free high-slots after missile or guns hardpoints.

Originally by: Brian Ballsack
If you cannot do anything in your system becuase of one cloacked guy, then your corp are clearly not ready for 0.0 space.

have you ever heard about cyno hot-drops?Very Happy

Space Concubine
Posted - 2010.12.19 14:29:00 - [8]
 

If you want to rat solo without being afraid of AFK cloakers, go to wormhole space! No cynos there either! It's perfect for you!


Also:
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
hm. show me at least 1 ship (except frighters, shuttles and zephyr) which can't fit and run cloak perma? And every ship (not sure for 100% though) has 1-2 free high-slots after missile or guns hardpoints.
Wow, you're really terrible, aren't you.

Aiwha
Caldari
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.12.19 17:38:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Shiptoaster
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Eve main idea is "you are never safe unless you stay docked".


No your safe when you cloaked and in a safe spot. Stoped reading there



Actually, sometimes cloaked ships have a tendency to randomly de-cloak themselves. I have no idea why, but I've had it happen. Neutral Tis an annoying, but fortunately, rare occurrence.

Dark Hipster
Posted - 2010.12.19 19:43:00 - [10]
 

If there were special scan probes available that would pick up on the distortion that is created by the cloak this would help solve the problem of the afk cloaker but still leave the tactics if the cloaking fleet. The scan time would be a bit longer than normal because its trying to find the distortion and not a solid object.

Just my 2 isk

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2010.12.19 21:59:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 19/12/2010 22:02:03
Originally by: Miss Rabblt

But small weak ship can stay forever (except dt time) afk when it is cloaked. And you have reds in your system and can't mine and rat.


If you weren't such a god damm coward you could do whatever you liked.

EDIT:- inb4 AFK Cloaker

AFK Cloaker
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2010.12.19 22:19:00 - [12]
 


Bram Cloaker's
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.19 22:57:00 - [13]
 


Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.12.19 23:35:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 19/12/2010 23:35:43
Despite all the flames and hatred for everything that does not conform to your world-view, if you think about it the Rabbit does actually have a point.

How many times has the "HTFU", "no safety anywhere!" and similar crap been thrown around when someone asks why high-sec allows ganks or why Concord does not interfere when taking from that tasty looking "Free lootz" can?

Is it perhaps that when it comes to the pew, having double-standards is OK?

Is it really necessary to go directly into denial/flame mode when the holy cow of risk-free PvP (AFK Cloaking) is questioned?

Bram Cloaker's
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.20 00:27:00 - [15]
 

AFK cloaking is not PVP, it's not even playing the game is it.

WatChooTalkinBoutWillis
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2010.12.20 02:06:00 - [16]
 

How do you know the cloaker is afk?

It's simply psychological warfare - If you stay docked - you lose.

Stop afk macroing and afk cloakers won't bother you at all.


Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.20 03:11:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
hm... exact the same people was complaining about learning skills.
There were clear and distinct mathematical reasons why forgoing learning skills was a bad idea. That is not the same as the fear/paranoia that comes from having a cloaked red in a system.
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
hm. show me at least 1 ship (except frighters, shuttles and zephyr) which can't fit and run cloak perma? And every ship (not sure for 100% though) has 1-2 free high-slots after missile or guns hardpoints.
Firstly, this completely ignores the point I was making, which was that cloaking devices come with significant penalties. You can have a ship that cloaks, but unless it's a force recon or a stealth bomber, it ain't gonna be doing any fighting.

Secondly, you can also fit an expanded probe launcher on pretty much every ship, but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Thirdly: Crusader, Zealot, Kestrel, Coercer, Hookbill, Vengeance, Caracal, Thorax, Rokh, Abbadon, most viable Tengu/Proteus/Legion/Loki configurations, and the Wolf. If I went the entire ship list, I'd probably find considerably more.

YoRiKoJi
Posted - 2010.12.20 13:03:00 - [18]
 

OK, I think this is either an alt or fleetmate alt of the others crying about afk cloak.

Here is the real story (guessing based on their posts):

they are in null-sec
they don't control their space so reds got in
the reds go afk cloak on them
their bots won't undock with reds in the system
they want to be able to bot to make isk so they can uberwtfomfgpwn people

I've started a new group, "Make Null-sec safe". Please join me in this endeavor. You may not fly an armed ship into null-sec. you may not fire on or engage anyone in null-sec. Upon seeing another player in null-sec, you must immediately leave your ship and 10 million isk... then fly your pod straight out of said null-sec region. NULL-SEC MUST BE MADE SAFE FOR ALL.

Chih Neu
Posted - 2010.12.20 14:44:00 - [19]
 

Just so you know, if you kill afk cloaking as an option I'll sit in a deep safe unprobable and achieve the exact same thing.

You want them out? Bait and kill them.

Oh, and every single easy kill you offer up only encourages their presence. Stop giving them killmails.

FACLON ALT
Posted - 2010.12.20 21:10:00 - [20]
 


Herping yourDerp
Posted - 2010.12.21 01:09:00 - [21]
 

instead of afk cloak i'l sit in safe spot in an unprobable tengu

Klyst Lysander
Posted - 2010.12.22 13:12:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Herping yourDerp
instead of afk cloak i'l sit in safe spot in an unprobable tengu



Don't stay afk too long then, there's way around that Razz

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.22 13:56:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Eve main idea is "you are never safe unless you stay docked". That's why we have suicide gankers, scammers, can flippers, rats and low- and zero-sec.


A. I don't think being docked protects you in any way from the likes of scammers or corp thieves.
B. There is a theoretical possibility of getting detected when cloaked.

People only tend to have problem with cloaked ships with pilots (seemingly) afk, which is a direct result of them showing up in local, and has nothing to do with the cloaking mechanism itself. Nobody complains about people being cloaked for hours in WH space.

Belfelmalak
Posted - 2010.12.24 04:34:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth


People only tend to have problem with cloaked ships with pilots (seemingly) afk, which is a direct result of them showing up in local, and has nothing to do with the cloaking mechanism itself.


I have the Solution! When you cloak, you don't show up in local. That way you don't scare the kiddies! Twisted Evil

ChickenOfDoom
Posted - 2010.12.24 05:54:00 - [25]
 

Without cloaking solo pvp against 0.0 alliances would be even more difficult than it already is. Buff pvpppppppppppppp.

Zeal Chi
Posted - 2010.12.24 07:06:00 - [26]
 

This is a silly and pointless thread.. why dont you ask CCP to remove POS shields while you at it

Tiswas
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.12.24 11:52:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Tiswas on 24/12/2010 11:52:47
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
And you have reds in your system and can't mine and rat.


Delicious irony:

He/she wants it to be unsafe to be in an afk cloaker so he/she can be safe in their ratting/mining boat.

Desigre
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.24 13:12:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Miss Rabblt


But small weak ship can stay forever (except dt time) afk when it is cloaked. And you have reds in your system and can't mine and rat.


All this crying over "weak ship" that can afk cloak. Wink

Seriously if you cant deal one cloaker ships, you have no business be in 0.0

keeltemall
Posted - 2010.12.24 13:34:00 - [29]
 


hahaha @ the flame and hatress from our Uber-PVPers. Classic topic.

What most players do not understand:

It is goes in both ways.

If you do PVE with such an afk-cloaker in Local in 0.0 or low sec and you do not know, who is behind it, you are a fool. It can end in a Capital/Supercapital hotdrop or Blackops hotdrop or simply you get tackled and the hostile gang from next door jumps in. There are 20000 systems in Eve. Just take another one or take a ship for pve, which is cheap. Get hotdropped, learn ok, it is too dangerous there, move on, if you mean, you have to be in that system. Also players, who do PVE and fit cloaks annoy often enough PVP players, who want to hunt htem, by warping on a save and cloak.

Or no matter, what I do, PVE or PVP, sometimes I have to go afk, bathroom whatever. I am always happy, if I have a cloak then. Otherwise I would logoff to have my ship save. That means, I would have to log back in again. More clicks.

I hate players, who think, Eve need to be for everything a clickfestial. Sometimes things are good as they are.


Gwarlord
Minmatar
Periculum Kismet
Scorned Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.24 14:25:00 - [30]
 



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