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blankseplocked [Proposal] Reduce super-capital role overlap (RR, POS Siege)
 
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Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:48:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Lumy on 16/12/2010 14:48:08
SCs in their current state are essentially swiss knife of EVE. On top ridiculous amount of HP, e-war immunity, they can assume many roles like (but not limited to):
- anti-subcapital ship (drones, fighters)
- anti-capital (fighterbombers) (new primary role since dominion)
- siege (fighterbombers)
- logistic support (RR, cap transfer)
- e-war (remote ECM)
- ...
They surpass and completely obsolete several classes of ships, like regular carriers or dreadnoughts. To limit their abilities on battlefield, I'm suggesting:

1) Remove Shield/Armor/Energy transfer range. Logistic support - that's what you have for your regular carrier.
2) Make fighter bombers unable to target/attack structures. Installation siege is primary role of Dreadnoughts.
3) Fix Hel. Replace RR bonus with bonus with something more suitable for their primary role (anti-capital ship).

This is not supposed to be ultimate answer to "super-capital proliferation", but rather making several other ship classes viable again.

Ariz Black
Posted - 2010.12.16 14:54:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Lumy
They completely obsolete several classes of ships, like regular carriers or dreadnoughts.
No. You can't dock SCs.

Lumy
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.16 15:13:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Ariz Black
Originally by: Lumy
They completely obsolete several classes of ships, like regular carriers or dreadnoughts.
No. You can't dock SCs.

Also sky is blue. So what?
What does the "You can't dock SCs." has common with fact, that CSs can RR more effectively than regular carrier (more cap, no susceptible to dampening, ECM)? Or that they can kill structures faster than dread without need of siege?


mchief117
Posted - 2010.12.16 15:55:00 - [4]
 

it is true that as of this writing SC ae pretty much the go to capital fleet master. i however have noticed that swinging the nerf bat generaly does not go over well with the eve player base as they have grown acustomed to how they pley. so swing he buff bat instead.

dreads gain a new tracking system that is similar to there current seige device but makes them capital hunters again, ie a dread equiped with this module over the current seige module is a threat even to a SC ono on one but lacks the heavy fire power for pos bashing ( and dont start with the whole "dreads are for pos bashing only" bit cause they where regated to that role and then lost it so it never fit to begin with, they where just really good at it)

normal carriers could get are a bit of a problem though , and im not sure how to fix them as i honistiy have yet to fly one

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.12.16 20:38:00 - [5]
 

I would have to agree, especially when we are talking 'nerfing' something that was just buffed and made useful.

My preferred solution is:
- Increase Dread damage capabilities to equal (or even surpass) that of SCs. They are already heaps more vulnerable, make them into the artillery pieces of Eve .. big whallop, everything else mediocre.
- Increase Fighter Bomber signatures to that of a BC rather than as currently a cruiser (ie. double to 250m). Makes them a lot more vulnerable to being shot down by practically all weapon systems.
- Adjust armour shield values on SCs to be a bit more even. Aeon/Wyvern can get near Titan level tanks which is just obscene, almost twice that of the Gallente/Matari.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2010.12.16 23:13:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 16/12/2010 23:13:06
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

- Increase Dread damage capabilities to equal (or even surpass) that of SCs. They are already heaps more vulnerable, make them into the artillery pieces of Eve .. big whallop, everything else mediocre.



You could probably double or even triple their damage output, and adjust signature resolution and tracking to a point they do reduced damage to regular caps and just hit supers for full.

Just adjust signature radius of structures accordingly. As it stands, supercarriers need a true nemesis instead of just a bigger supercap/titan blob, even if fielding a buffed dread is still a suicide run, at least make them bring the hurt.

Natalia Kovac
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.01.06 06:11:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Natalia Kovac on 06/01/2011 06:11:09
Supported.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.06 07:13:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 06/01/2011 07:13:26
Originally by: Ariz Black
Originally by: Lumy
They completely obsolete several classes of ships, like regular carriers or dreadnoughts.
No. You can't dock SCs.

True, only role of dreads atm is docking Rolling Eyes


Anyway SCs are overpowered, now you can boost all other ships to compensate, or you can nerf one ship class: the SCs. That really sounds like a better solution.

btw normally i would have supported this, but there is already an imo better one a bit down.

Mavi Gioia
Posted - 2011.01.15 06:38:00 - [9]
 

Supporting. It's dumb as hell how the SCs have obsoleted Dreads for shooting structures, seeing as they don't have to sit still for 10 minutes at a time. And then they go and utterly obsolete carriers for RR and offensive drone capability.

I agree with all your changes.

Nikol Keselova
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.15 06:41:00 - [10]
 

Definitely agree with this, it's ridiculous that the only thing worth taking to a capital fight now is a SC or Titan. There was a graph that showed the number of supercaps in the game over time, and they've just shot up like 200% every month or something since the changes.

Simon Schama
Posted - 2011.01.15 06:43:00 - [11]
 

Definitely agree.

Okie Wren
Posted - 2011.01.15 06:50:00 - [12]
 


Christian Clarke
Posted - 2011.01.15 07:05:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Christian Clarke on 15/01/2011 07:06:12
Edited by: Christian Clarke on 15/01/2011 07:05:57
Supported. Just look at this screenshot, and that's tame by the NC or PL standards.

Nyxes

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.01.15 08:07:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Edited by: Furb Killer on 06/01/2011 07:13:26
Originally by: Ariz Black
Originally by: Lumy
They completely obsolete several classes of ships, like regular carriers or dreadnoughts.
No. You can't dock SCs.

True, only role of dreads atm is docking Rolling Eyes

Anyway SCs are overpowered, now you can boost all other ships to compensate, or you can nerf one ship class: the SCs. That really sounds like a better solution.

btw normally i would have supported this, but there is already an imo better one a bit down.

All of this.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.15 08:34:00 - [15]
 

Not supported. I like the way Super Carriers are working right now. They do not make other classes of ship obsolete if for no other reason than their cost. They aren’t a swiss army knife, they’re simply a very large drone boat. Drone boats are, by their nature, somewhat more versatile than other types of ships.

-Windjammer

Shin Dari
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.15 09:54:00 - [16]
 


Dread buff please.

Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.01.15 10:06:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Lumy
1) Remove Shield/Armor/Energy transfer range. Logistic support - that's what you have for your regular carrier.
2) Make fighter bombers unable to target/attack structures. Installation siege is primary role of Dreadnoughts.
3) Fix Hel. Replace RR bonus with bonus with something more suitable for their primary role (anti-capital ship).

This is not supposed to be ultimate answer to "super-capital proliferation", but rather making several other ship classes viable again.


Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.01.15 10:32:00 - [18]
 

Supporting to make EVE less "Supercaps online".

kunniz
ISKRA-FU-0717
Paisti Syndicate
Posted - 2011.01.15 10:56:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Lumy

1) Remove Shield/Armor/Energy transfer range. Logistic support - that's what you have for your regular carrier.
2) Make fighter bombers unable to target/attack structures. Installation siege is primary role of Dreadnoughts.
3) Fix Hel. Replace RR bonus with bonus with something more suitable for their primary role (anti-capital ship).



Exclamation

kassie kelmar
Caldari
Posted - 2011.01.15 20:33:00 - [20]
 

Supported

Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain

Posted - 2011.01.15 23:44:00 - [21]
 

SC's were buffed too much. I think adding bombers for them wasn't thought through. If I recall right primary concern at first place was SC's being paper thin, instead of fixing this issue something went overboard.

Whatever. Just supporting.

SerratedX
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric
The Polaris Syndicate
Posted - 2011.01.16 12:50:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Supporting to make EVE less "Supercaps online".

Natalia Kovac
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2011.01.16 13:24:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Not supported. I like the way Super Carriers are working right now. They do not make other classes of ship obsolete if for no other reason than their cost. They aren’t a swiss army knife, they’re simply a very large drone boat. Drone boats are, by their nature, somewhat more versatile than other types of ships.

-Windjammer



No. The state of inflation in this game is such that 15 bil is not actually that much money to a lot of people any more. You can't balance things by cost.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous

Posted - 2011.01.16 14:15:00 - [24]
 

I don't think your listed changes would have any impact at all. That said I still support a general nerf to SC's. They have too much tank (aeon/wyvern), too much dps (more than death star pos or gank dread) and too much versatility.

z0de
The Bastards
The Bastards.
Posted - 2011.01.16 15:50:00 - [25]
 


Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.01.16 18:11:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer

True, only role of dreads atm is docking


Ouch.

Bartholomeus Crane
Gallente
The Crane Family

Posted - 2011.01.16 18:45:00 - [27]
 

Support ...

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2011.01.16 19:56:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Not supported. I like the way Super Carriers are working right now. They do not make other classes of ship obsolete if for no other reason than their cost. They aren’t a swiss army knife, they’re simply a very large drone boat. Drone boats are, by their nature, somewhat more versatile than other types of ships.

-Windjammer



lol 0/10 for trolling!


Orb Lati
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.01.16 22:31:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Orb Lati on 16/01/2011 22:32:44
I'm not sure if I would want to quickly jump in the Nerf Supercarrier bandwagon but i will admit there are some real issues with them when you consider dread use.

The first issue I would be looking at addressing (to reduce proliferation) is the logistics involved in their construction.
At the moment current practice is to buy your minerals in empire, move them to a close manufacturer plant and build certain moduals/ammo to compress all that material into a convenient jump freighter size.
I've always felt that your ability to recycle items in order to receive substantial minerals was always a huge kick in the guts to the mining profession, but now coupled with the 100% in / 100% out refining efficiency its a hugh disincentive to using your 0.0 miners to get the minerals for SC production.
I would like to see all recycling outputs cut to 50% to bring an end to compression game play to ease the logistics of SC production. This I feel should a.) slow SC production and b.) start increasing their cost again.

The next issue is to buff dreads again to actually make them a useful tool again in warfare.
I would first and foremost like to see their siege timers cut to 5 minutes. Other buffs I would consider are possible increases to DPS, or possibly making them immune to standard warp disruption (ie HID/Dics to hold them).
Another possible boost (and anti blob nerf) if to give them some kind of cluster/bomb ammo with AOE damage.

Finally, instead of nerfing fighter bombers / fighters. I would rather see Assault Frigs or Destroyers be given a bonus to their ability to kill those drones. Say a damage bonuses and/or drone specific web strength boost.
(imagine the pain caused by a squad of AF, each able to slow and kill a fighter bomber every 30-60 seconds)

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2011.01.16 23:11:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: northwesten
Originally by: Windjammer
Not supported. I like the way Super Carriers are working right now. They do not make other classes of ship obsolete if for no other reason than their cost. They aren’t a swiss army knife, they’re simply a very large drone boat. Drone boats are, by their nature, somewhat more versatile than other types of ships.

-Windjammer



lol 0/10 for trolling!


Thanks, but I wasn’t trolling. What prize did they give you for lack of content?


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