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Pricer Chekar
Posted - 2010.12.15 23:25:00 - [31]
 

Indeed, I lost my head as I have been drinking.

I do want to make it clear, that I am not against station / gate camping and low sec pvp.

What I am challenging is the pathetic security,

Where the sentry guns do piratically nothing,
and the global criminal cool down doesn't prevent people from leaving or docking.

Shani Mukantagara
Amarr
Fairlight Corp
Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2010.12.15 23:27:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Deen Wispa
Edited by: Deen Wispa on 15/12/2010 21:34:08

given that most noobs start out in frigs or cruisers, it's tough for them to find a good fight because everyone is at the gates. there's no way in hell they can tank the sentry guns so this means they cant learn to pvp properly.



Gates are a natural choke point.. 90% of EVE PVP has and always will happen on a gate. That is how the game was designed.

Low sec's role has changed it's out dated...
Low sec is now a PVP ground for medium- small Alliances who don't have any interest in owning 0.0 space or getting involved in 1000 vs 1000 fleet fights.

Gate guns need to be removed or have the damaged reduced significantly (enough to kill off normal cruiser hulls) on all gates not linked to empire, so PVP in low sec isn't hindered by silly gate guns.

I am not a pirate or a gate camper I play EVE to PVP.

Widemouth Deepthroat
Posted - 2010.12.15 23:37:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Pou Tau
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
I love low sec.

I sit in my bhaalgorn/nightmare/mach or whatever (web bonus is the best) on a kick out station being remote seboed by 2 carrier alts. Instalock and pop everything pretty much. If people come I get the remote reps going. If dps is too much I dock the ship in carrier and warp the pod out while laughing in local. Couldn't be more fun and get the most tears I've ever seen!


If thats how you get kills, then gaaaa faaaa, no one thinks of you as a pvper, or a pirate.
Rather you are an annoyance, a pathetic leach whom does nothing more than stare at your kill board.
If you solely gain pleasure from others loses, you have a problem.

The purpose of pvp is for your gain, at another's loss.
If you gain nothing worthwhile, You are not doing it right.




funny you think I gain nothing when I paid for my super carrier with drops from doing this!

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2010.12.16 00:11:00 - [34]
 

Make lowsec belts worth more than highsec missions. Problem solved. Or slap lvl 5 agents in nearly every system.

The main reason that there's so few people in lowsec is that the benefits just don't outweigh the risk. You've got to deal with the same gatecampers (minus bubbles ofc but if you're in a non-cloaky ship bigger than a frigate you can still get caught/forced to abort your route by any competent gang), the same roaming pirates and the same risk of getting hotdropped that you get in nullsec, but in lowsec you get the added advantage of not being able to chase away neutrals without tanking your sec status, and the rewards in lowsec are worse than they are in the much safer high sec unless you do lvl 5s, and those are too far and few between to be of any use to the majority of lowsec (plus there only being a handful of lvl 5 agents makes them like beacons to pirates).

There are a lot of people out there who would love to move out to low/nullsec and claim some space as their own, but 0.0 is just too much of a NAPfest and lowsec doesn't have the rewards to justify the investment, let alone the risk. (You can often convince doubtful corpmates to move with the promise of more isk, but that doesn't really work if you're trying to convince someone to up the effort required to do stuff, AND the risk, for LESS rewards :( )

Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
Posted - 2010.12.16 00:40:00 - [35]
 

I am not a highsec carebear. I love PVP.

I don't love PVP when I am trying to make isk, because PVE setups cannot fight PVP setups.

So, when I run missions, even though lowsec pays better, I do them in highsec.

It would take a reward increase similar to / better than w-space to make me change my mind on this.

It's not because I'm worried about losing a ship or two, either. It's because I'm not going to give away free kills, which means I will be in for a world of frustration.

It goes like this: Pirate scans out your mission. If you're paying attention, you warp off. They bookmark it. They address book you. (I know; I've used these tactics myself against others.) If you try to run that mission again, you will die. You have to cancel it.

You have to dock every time someone with probes enters the system.

I don't know whether you make more over time or not, but I do know that it's a lot more tedious and a lot more effort. And not 'fun' effort, but 'spamming d-scan staring at local and docking a lot' effort.

It's not fun and I'm not going to do it for anything less than 100m+/hour. (This is further hindered because you will have to use a tech1 ship in lowsec, as you will never get ANYTHING done in say, a Marauder or pirate BS. If anyone sees you they will spend days waiting for a chance to kill one of those.)

So, increasing rewards a bit would be good, I agree. But you won't increase them enough to make lowsec enjoyable for anyone except the -10 pirates, because then they'd have to be as (or more) lucrative than nullsec/wspace.

The other half of the equation MUST be increased security, then.

Maybe add faction navies (not concord) to lowsec which respond similar to concord, only they are not insta-gib and they can be fought off. Maybe they escalate more and more as time goes on, forcing an engagement to be quick if it's to happen at all.

This would probably hurt the pirates too much, though.

A few options would be....

1) A new type of mission that is PVP-ish. Like, say, go hunt down a single BS npc that has sleeper AI and uses a players ship fit. Thus, PVP ships/PVP gangs can make isk and be ready for a fight.

Maybe give a reward from a pirate faction for ganking people on these sorts of missions, even, letting you work for either side...

2) Make gate guns deadly. Make it like suicide ganking, minus the suicide. What I mean is this: Kill ship, scoop loot, GTFO. It'd be impossible to loiter around, and targets would have to be chosen carefully. (As opposed to indiscriminately killed. This would be countered, presumably, by more targets showing up to begin with. And for the targets themselves, they get choices to mitigate risk. Will they drop the gank on a tech2 fitted tech1 BS? Maybe. Faction stuffed hauler? Absolutely. Etc.)

This idea requires a buff to ship scanners so that they can make the decision more quickly.

3) Make missions/sites unprobable in lowsec. Maybe a new type. Then bears can die on gates/stations, but can at least do their activities in peace. Maybe a sort of "deadspace bubble" that removes them from local (and doesnt let them SEE local, either, so they dont know how dangerous the outside system is).

This may sound a little frustrating to pirates, but the upside is there would actually BE a lowsec population, then. People don't want their activities ruined, and will accept lower rewards to ensure they are smooth and enjoyable. It's a game.

4) Somehow organize pirates to be less gank-happy and to hold out for better targets. No patch needed. Unfortunately, this one won't happen, because killmails.

You COULD let people feel safe and then pick off the weak/over fitted every now and then, resulting in a vibrant lowsec where you might get ganked every couple weeks, but the rewards outweigh the loss.

But, it won't happen. Too much chaos. Gankers get low targets -> Gank everything -> everything dies -> nothing comes -> gank threshold lowered, etc. Vicious cycle.

Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
Posted - 2010.12.16 00:46:00 - [36]
 

tl;dr summary ^

1) No matter how profitable lowsec becomes as it is, it won't be fun for anyone but the gankers, because no one wants to constantly spam scan to not die. And no one wants to dock for hours because they got seen in local and a pirate gang camps them.

2) Therefore, it must either be extremely profitable (more than null, at the least), or safer. The former is unlikely.

3) Make lowsec safer either on gates (activities remain as dangerous), or in activities (hidden mining pockets, hidden missions, etc) while gates remain as dangerous. Doing both would be silly.

Unless it's just "add the faction navies from highsec" (not concord).

4) Alternatively, Pirates could let some targets go and make people feel they have a <100% chance of dying if they run into pirates. (Barring yknow, winning. I guess I should say 100% chance of an attack).

This won't ever happen, though. They kill everything and then no one comes, so they're less likely to let even a noobship go, so people are less likely to come, etc etc forever.

Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Teraa Matar
Posted - 2010.12.16 02:43:00 - [37]
 

Posting in a losec thread.

Remove gateguns plz.

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2010.12.16 05:43:00 - [38]
 

Boosting gate guns would make absolutely no difference in camping outside of smartbombing.

You are welcome.

Zombie Jeebus
Amarr
Alt Holdings llc
Posted - 2010.12.16 06:57:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Zombie Jeebus on 16/12/2010 06:58:24
I had a nice, and really really long, post ready about how this idea, while having some merit, is also flawed.. but I drank a LOT while typing it.. so you get this instead Laughing

The only way to 'fix' low sec for the people whining in this thread would be to make it high sec.Rolling Eyes If you don't like gate camps then learn how to scout, which doesn't require an alt.. but it helps. If any of the proposed things were done... from concord at the gates/stations only to stronger guns.. it just means they would see you, follow you where you went and either wait for you to get bored in the station and log, or drop probes as sson as you warp to the mission/plex/site. It would take longer for you to die but nothing would change.

I live in low sec and I engage in all activities from missions and exploration to camping and probing people. I even mine sometimes... but I have to be really bored then. The payouts in low sec are better than high sec and, other than the first jump or two in, isn't all that dangerous unless you try to afk mission.. at which point you deserve what happens. If you do venture out here and are worried about being probed then learn how to shoot back. Most people over tank their pve ships or depend on cap stability. Fit a point at the very least, and maybe a cap booster just in case, and when that lone pvp ship warps in.. surprise. I've seen more than 1 person try to jump into a mission I was in only to find that 'easy to kill pve fit drake' was a buffered pvp fit instead. Twisted Evil

Short Version: If you don't like low sec then stay out of it. Those of us who actually live there and don't need 'big brother' to hold our hand don't **** and moan about so don't mess with our home. You go into some alliance's null sec home and they will do their best to kill you.. we're no different.

Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
Posted - 2010.12.16 06:57:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Space Pinata
tl;dr summary
Or, eventually everybody will figure out that you shouldn't go into lowsec until you've got an unscannable ship.
And while in lowsec, you should never take part in an activity that is scannable.
And while travelling in lowsec, you should never do so uncloaked.

Eventually we can only hope the pirates and assorted griefers get so bored their heads implode.

Until such time as I can be convinced the profit of lowsec outweighs the cost of ship replacement and the tiresome habit of spamming the scanner, lowsec might as well not even exist. CONCORD mechanics at gates/stations, paired with Sleeper/Sansha AI in missions & belts might actually do it. But regardless of the exact methods, the reward of lowsec has to outweigh the risk to a degree that exceeds the decent pay - zero risk setup in highsec.

Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
Posted - 2010.12.16 07:05:00 - [41]
 

I think low sec works great...

its not that everyone needs to use something.

its a thorny place that you sometimes need to go through that bandits make a home in

Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2010.12.16 07:18:00 - [42]
 

I am a pvper and I am agreeing with a lot of what Space Pinata says.

I'm old enough that I remember when low sec Molden Heath was bustling with carebear activity. People ratting the belts, people doing missions, manufacturing, even miners in the belts, and of course pvp.

At Molden Heaths peak years ago, in Hedaleofarber alone there would be 70 people, another 50 in Half, and another 50 in Istodard. These 3 systems were 2 jumps apart. Sounds like a lot of tasty targets doesnt it. Now, the entire cluster is close to being a complete ghost town except for people traveling from point A to point B and the occasional pirate group that normally leave after a single month out of boredom.

What changed from years ago? Probes. It became easy to scan out mission runners. That single change decimated the carebear population in low sec Molden Heath. After numerous people lost their mission BS to easy ganks, they left and went back to hi-sec. The risk of getting scanned out in a BS is stupid high compared to the little extra rewards. Space Pinata explained why already.

I'm a pvper. I know what pvp is. I understand the importance of of nonconsentual pvp. Ganking is a part of the game.

Making ships in mission pockets so stupid easy to scan out tipped the balance too far in favor of those looking to gank the mission runner. So they left.

Having probes finally show up in the scanner without sorting through 100 odd items isn't going to change jack because the root cause isn't being addressed.

I'm bored stupid a lot of times looking for pvp, even 2 vs just my tech 1 cruiser. I blame it on the probe changes.

Make it harder to scan mission/anomaly runners out so they actually have a chance to enjoy themselves and make isk. We will then see lowsec start to repopulate. Or do nothing and continue to keep lowsec broken.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2010.12.16 07:33:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Low-sec should be made what it was intended to be, an area where risk was higher than high-sec, but lower than 0.0, and reward fell between the two too.



As far as PVE goes, 0.0 is far less risky than hisec.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.16 07:43:00 - [44]
 

Low sec suffers from the same thing all of Eve suffers, spawn camp pvp. Fix that.

Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
Posted - 2010.12.16 15:59:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Olleybear
Make it harder to scan mission/anomaly runners out so they actually have a chance to enjoy themselves and make isk. We will then see lowsec start to repopulate. Or do nothing and continue to keep lowsec broken.
The only point 'harder to scan' makes a real difference is when it becomes 'impossible to scan'. This is why the Tengu is so big (and invisible) for lowsec carebearing. Having the eventual fights be more even seems like a more workable plan. You don't completely eliminate lowsec PvP again, but you don't have people refusing to go there because of the inevitable and unavoidable poddings.

A 'circle of life' model in which I'm tying to gank the mission, the pirates are trying to gank me, and the mission is trying to gank the pirates sounds much more fun than "(Don't) Look at me in my invisi-Tengu!"

Jaik7
Posted - 2010.12.16 17:33:00 - [46]
 

i like lowsec the way it is, as a superdangerous border zone between a place where you can actually do business and a place where inordinatly rich (yet bored) people shell out isk like it's toilet paper to buy more dictors and whatnot.

i like it this way because i get pretty high from scouting my corp's orcas through it when they are loaded up with equipment going one way and megacyte/zydrine/t2 components going the other.

the fact that there is lowsec on the way (even if only one system) means that everyone gets paid extra.

lowsec is a barier, not a playground.

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2010.12.16 18:16:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Shani Mukantagara

Low sec's role has changed it's out dated...
Low sec is now a PVP ground for medium- small Alliances who don't have any interest in owning 0.0 space or getting involved in 1000 vs 1000 fleet fights.

Gate guns need to be removed or have the damaged reduced significantly (enough to kill off normal cruiser hulls) on all gates not linked to empire, so PVP in low sec isn't hindered by silly gate guns.

I am not a pirate or a gate camper I play EVE to PVP.


Well I AM a pirate. I live in low sec. My sec status is too bad for me to go through empire, and I don't feel like messing with 0.0 bubble camps. Instead, I hunt haulers in low sec. The only thing that really needs "fixing" is the tackling cloaky blockade runners. They are nearly impossible to catch in low sec. I think your post is pretty much right on, Shani Mukantagara. I would just suggest 2 changes: 1) Make the gate guns stronger in .4 and weak in .1: then low sec status would actually mean something. 2) Put clouds of gas or something around a few gates so chasing down blockade runners isn't quite so pointless.

Adapa Prime
Posted - 2010.12.16 18:48:00 - [48]
 


I can't speak for everyone here but, the reason why I wanted to continue with eve in the first place is because I was so ****ed at the first guy who killed me in low-sec that I wanted to LVL up and kick his butt.

BTW I did, I have his corpse in my hanger still. YARRRR!!Twisted Evil

If the noobs have issues, they know what the forums are and im sure they have keyboards.... Things tend to work themselves out bro!



That's exactly what happened to me in .4! I got blown up by a pirate team while mining Azure P (was able to avoid being podded). I then added the two pirates to my contact list and will be seeking them out as soon as I get higher skills and a better ship. Getting notifications every time they're online is a constant and effective incentive for me to progress within the game. Don't get mad, get even! Very Happy
BTW, I've been playing about two weeks, so I think I count as new.

ZenSun
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2010.12.16 19:06:00 - [49]
 

I have always endorsed the idea of speed/sig tanking with gate guns.. it would significantly revive low sec pvp, imo.

Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2010.12.16 19:14:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Adapa Prime

That's exactly what happened to me in .4! I got blown up by a pirate team while mining Azure P...

Don't get mad, get even!

BTW, I've been playing about two weeks, so I think I count as new.


First, I'd like to say that you have a very good attitude. Yes. Get even. Its fun. Very Happy

Second, I'd like to pose a question for you. You say you are 2 weeks old and you were blown up mining in low sec. My question is, will you ever go out to low sec again and go mining? Another question, will you go out to low sec to run missions? What about after you get a fitted 2 billion isk marauder ganked in your mission by 8 guys? Will you go out to low sec to run missions after that?

I'm asking these questions thinking I know your answer already, but would really like to have everyone else hear your reply.

I would like to see more people in low sec myself. It is not going to happen if you cant make isk there. Less people = less fights = bored to tears, getting half drunk and blowing up your ship next to people you dont know for the lolz because theres nothing better to do.

Dan Spitty
Gallente
Psychotic Disorders
Dangerous By Design
Posted - 2010.12.16 21:51:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Ava Starfire
Posting in a losec thread.

Remove gateguns plz.


And fit all stations with a periscope.

Piyale Pasa
Posted - 2010.12.16 22:10:00 - [52]
 

Making corp oriented rewards would be a productive change for the game.

Many new players hang around in the NPC corp until they grow out of their shell and have a look at low sec. They immediately return back to lvl 4 missions and most start looking for a WH corp thats recruiting, or a 0.0 alliance.

Making rewards corp oriented, like seeding good enough belts/grav sites, hard but rewarding missions which require team work, etc, so that corps can have a prospect of living in low sec. Right now only low sec pirating corps hang around there, who also occasionally do WH raids when the gate camps dont turn fruitful.

On a side note, there needs to be something done about 0.0 gold moons, maybe distribute them amongst low sec as well, this could make low sec a stepping stone for corps looking to enter 0.0.

Just my 2cents..

Luminos
Durid is 4 Fite
Posted - 2010.12.17 04:08:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Gogela
2) Put clouds of gas or something around a few gates so chasing down blockade runners isn't quite so pointless.
There's a certain delicious irony to somebody asking for a change to 'improve' lowsec which will actually decrease the number of people there (ie. removing gate guns).

But then there's hoping CCP makes it so you're able to blockade Blockade Runners.

Rolling Eyes

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.17 05:48:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Luminos
There's a certain delicious irony to somebody asking for a change to 'improve' lowsec which will actually decrease the number of people there (ie. removing gate guns).



Gankbears are not a very bright bunch, just loud.

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
The Black Armada
Posted - 2010.12.17 06:17:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Olleybear
Originally by: Adapa Prime

That's exactly what happened to me in .4! I got blown up by a pirate team while mining Azure P...

Don't get mad, get even!

BTW, I've been playing about two weeks, so I think I count as new.


First, I'd like to say that you have a very good attitude. Yes. Get even. Its fun. Very Happy

Second, I'd like to pose a question for you. You say you are 2 weeks old and you were blown up mining in low sec. My question is, will you ever go out to low sec again and go mining? Another question, will you go out to low sec to run missions? What about after you get a fitted 2 billion isk marauder ganked in your mission by 8 guys? Will you go out to low sec to run missions after that?

I'm asking these questions thinking I know your answer already, but would really like to have everyone else hear your reply.

I would like to see more people in low sec myself. It is not going to happen if you cant make isk there. Less people = less fights = bored to tears, getting half drunk and blowing up your ship next to people you dont know for the lolz because theres nothing better to do.


ROFL, if you are taking a "2 billion isk marauder" that is PVE fitted out into low sec... you deserve to be killed..... hell, I dropped carriers on less.... ROFL (which I have to say is fun as hell to do =P)

Look, Low-Sec is a completely different game compared to high sec and 0.0.... learn the rules and you will enjoy your stay... otherwise you will be going back to where you came from. Prob on the express route!

Keta Fraal
Nul and Booleans
Posted - 2010.12.17 06:17:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Piyale Pasa


On a side note, there needs to be something done about 0.0 gold moons, maybe distribute them amongst low sec as well, this could make low sec a stepping stone for corps looking to enter 0.0.

Just my 2cents..



If you mean Technetium moons - There are some in low sec. However they are POS'd by 0.0 alliances.

Misanthra
Posted - 2010.12.17 06:38:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Pricer Chekar

You have 0.0 fleets who fly through 0.4 on their daily roams, not hindered at all by the "low security"




Why would they be hindered? 0.0 pilots a good few nights of ratting fixes most sec status hits no sweat for any neut kills on low sec trips. Unless really lucky and they wipe out like 100 people, sanctum/haven ho'ing or hitting a hot belt system loaded with triple 1.8 spawns fixes all sins.

Its why some go to null sec....pvp for fun (get loot a bonus...place I ran in loot went to people who lost ships as a courtesy) then rat till you are bored to death or made enough to make you happy for a bit.


Olleybear
Minmatar
I R' Carebear
Posted - 2010.12.17 07:16:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Zendoren


ROFL, if you are taking a "2 billion isk marauder" that is PVE fitted out into low sec... you deserve to be killed.....



Looking over you battleclinic record, I'm going to assume your a troll. But on the off chance someone happens to agree with what you say I will respond.

Your missing not only the point to the question I asked someone else, but the opportunity to get those ships back into lowsec they way it was years ago.

Back before probe changes, people flew multiple billion isk ships for lvl 4 missions in low sec Molden Heath all of the time. Pirates had a chance to kill the buggers at the gates and at kick out stations and when they tried to dock back up. They did exactly that on more than a few occasions.

I will simply say that I do know how to take care of myself in lowsec and leave it at that.

Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
The Black Armada
Posted - 2010.12.17 08:41:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Zendoren on 17/12/2010 08:46:53
Originally by: Olleybear
Originally by: Zendoren


ROFL, if you are taking a "2 billion isk marauder" that is PVE fitted out into low sec... you deserve to be killed.....



Looking over you battleclinic record, I'm going to assume your a troll. But on the off chance someone happens to agree with what you say I will respond.

Your missing not only the point to the question I asked someone else, but the opportunity to get those ships back into lowsec they way it was years ago.

Back before probe changes, people flew multiple billion isk ships for lvl 4 missions in low sec Molden Heath all of the time. Pirates had a chance to kill the buggers at the gates and at kick out stations and when they tried to dock back up. They did exactly that on more than a few occasions.

I will simply say that I do know how to take care of myself in lowsec and leave it at that.


ROFL, you know some of us use alts buddy! if you are so worked up on stats try zendorea.....

Anyways, I was a low-sec alliance leader of a successful low-key alliance for two years.so i have some ground to stand on here.

I agree with you that this game has changed over the years and is not the same game that I started with years ago with other toons that I have since lost or ditched.

Look, it's simple, low-sec is basically darwinism taken to the extreme. The way CCP has changed probing, It seems that they did not take into account low-sec tactics at all. So I agree with you on that point, however, at the end of the day all you can do is find ways to work around the bad stuff and go with the flow, all the while hitting your CSM rep over the head with a soggy trout asking for low-sec love!

Personally I love low-sec, However, I'm biased because it's working for me. However, this brings up an interesting philosophical question. Should people who don't even put the time and effort to even live and work in low-sec in its current form have the right to dictate how it should function in the future? I say no!

SkinSin
Posted - 2010.12.17 09:11:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: SkinSin on 17/12/2010 09:11:36
Originally by: Zendoren
However, this brings up an interesting philosophical question. Should people who don't even put the time and effort to even live and work in low-sec in its current form have the right to dictate how it should function in the future? I say no!

And I say yes.
If you don't get the opinions of the people that want to move to low sec (but don't for various reasons) you will never be able to implement the features that will encourage them into lowsec.

One method that will NOT work, for instance, is to make low sec more rewarding in terms of ISK. Making gate guns uncampable might work as it would mean that gate camping goes away.

But if you solve these:
1) It's not fun being ganked on a gate by 10 people when you just wanted to see what lowsec was like.
2) It's not fun to try and find a decent pvp challenge only to find that the only pvp you can find is actually pvpppppppppppppppppp
3) It's not fun to have to scan every 2 seconds in order to avoid getting blobbed.
4) The risks will always outweigh the benefits as long as PvE fits are radically different to PvP fits.

Then more people might come to lowsec.


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