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blankseplocked [Celestial Imperative] Proof of Governments compromised by Nation.
 
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Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.12.09 23:02:00 - [1]
 

My XO and I received the following transmission upon arriving at the office this morning:

"The matter of your security status.
From: Citizen Astur
Sent: 2010.12.09 16:18
To: Boma Airaken, Koronakesh,

EoM are no friends of the Nation, but your assistance will has, all the same, not gone unnoticed.

If you wish for Sansha agents to unwind the harm done to you by CONCORD, I can instruct them to do so. This may not be a lasting solution if you once again reveal your intent to kill the dogs of the empires, but it will endure long enough for you to get safely to the frontier...

...or back within firing range."

I then received the following CC of the reply to Astur from my XO, who operates with the full authority of the Imperative:

"what i mailed back to Astur
From: Koronakesh
Sent: 2010.12.09 16:38
To: Boma Airaken,

With all due respect - and by that I of course mean none at all - we have no need of your agents, though thank you for confirming our suspicions of their existence.

We will *** CLASSIFIED *** concord-policed territory.

We've stated our objective and the means we will achieve it. We will continue killing you and every person that inhibits our extermination of your Nation..

Be seeing you."

Photographic imaging of these transmissions will be made publicly available for verification, but only through NEA channels.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.12.09 23:14:00 - [2]
 

Thank you for providing proof that Celestial Imperative are considered Sansha supporters by Nation.

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.12.09 23:27:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik
Thank you for providing proof that Celestial Imperative are considered Sansha supporters by Nation.


Thank you for providing proof you maybe not read so good.

Jaik7
Posted - 2010.12.10 01:41:00 - [4]
 

Oh no, no government support! Whatever shall we do?Laughing

Now that we know that wormholes can be shut down with Gravimetric ECM, we might be able to completly forgo support and just insert a couple Falcons to the point of entry. if we want to get really risky, we could put them through the wormhole and have them shut down all

Besides, the empire has not been helping us drive the Sanshas back recently, so why should we expect them to now?

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.12.10 02:31:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Jaik7
Oh no, no government support! Whatever shall we do?Laughing

Now that we know that wormholes can be shut down with Gravimetric ECM, we might be able to completly forgo support and just insert a couple Falcons to the point of entry. if we want to get really risky, we could put them through the wormhole and have them shut down all

Besides, the empire has not been helping us drive the Sanshas back recently, so why should we expect them to now?


The entire point of the Celestial Imperative operation against the Republic Fleet pilot in question was to get more evidence out in the open that:

1. CONCORD has been compromised by Nation far more than previously expected and cannot be trusted.

2. Big Four governments and military infrastructure of said big four governments are compromised and cannot be trusted.

3. The aforementioned entities are AIDING Nation with their current rules of engagement and policies on Nation loyalist capsuleers.

We consider this operation a success and win for those fighting the good fight.

Neu Bastian
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.12.10 04:20:00 - [6]
 

Thank you for providing proof that proofs can be proven in a seemingly foolproof way.



Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.12.10 05:31:00 - [7]
 

Regarding a change
From: Koronakesh
Sent: 2010.12.09 06:39
To: Haeldone Dorgiers,

Now then. Operating on the assumption that a pilot's security status is their set standing from CONCORD, would you like to explain why one Silonneri Balginia was given authority to alter my and Boma Airaken's security statuses to a -6.0 with the CONCORD after we destroyed her Fleet Issue Tempest after a Nation attack was confirmed to be over? As Miss Balginia is a member of the Republic Fleet and not a DED agent, I don't see where her authority is coming from.

Additionally, I find it extremely suspect that only the security stasues for myself and Boma were altered, and not that of Drake Arson, a well-known Nation loyalist, who engaged her vessel.

Re: Regarding a change
From: Haeldone Dorgiers
Sent: 2010.12.10 03:46
To: Koronakesh,

From me, pilot Koronakesh.

You engaged a Republic Fleet Vice Admiral attempting to organize resistance against a Sansha invasion.

Do you dispute this?

Re: Re: Regarding a change
From: Koronakesh
Sent: 2010.12.10 03:49
To: Haeldone Dorgiers,

I dispute your wording.

I engaged and executed a vessel of the Republic Fleet that stood by on the field of battle without firing a shot on the Nation Wyvern.

As notable by the timestamps, there was a 10 minute period between when the Wyvern was destroyed and the destruction of Silonneri's ship. She was not organizinig any resistance, as the incursion by the time of her destruction was well over.

Re: Re: Re: Regarding a change
From: Haeldone Dorgiers
Sent: 2010.12.10 03:58
To: Koronakesh,

Vice Admira Balginia was responsible for coordinating thousands of Republic Fleet vessels, pilot, though evidently you do not appreciate anything beyond overt violence.

I will revoke this standing, and only because you are exploiting a sufficiently grey area of our protocols...

But let it be known: Your actions will still have consequences.

I will be issuing a report to the Republic to alert them of your status change. They may well apply their own measures in light of this, for which I will accept no responsibility.

That will lie only with you.


Re: Re: Re: Re: Regarding a change
From: Koronakesh
Sent: 2010.12.10 04:04
To: Haeldone Dorgiers,

If you wish to alter the security rating, so be it. Be sure to let the families of the next ship's crew that dies to my lasers know that they died because of your decision to let me back into highsec, Agent Dorgiers.

And don't think CONCORD's resetting of Drake Arson's security status to 0.0 has gone unnoticed.

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.12.10 05:35:00 - [8]
 

So there you have it, more of their shenanigans and shady backroom deals.

To the best of my knowledge at this point my security status remains unchanged, and Imperative plans also remain unchanged. This is direct evidence of CONCORD directly supporting a Nation loyalist capsuleer, and evidence that neither Koronakesh, my XO, or I, took the deal given to us by Citizen Astur.

This goes all the way to the top people. Question authority, question your loyalty. If you do not stand united against CONCORD and the big four, you are directly aiding Nation. The proof is in the pudding.

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.12.10 06:25:00 - [9]
 

And just to make sure, this is also a perfect example of Celestial Imperative operating with COMPLETE transparency. We don't keep secrets. Imagery of the latest communications between CI and Nation and/or CONCORD will of course be available through NEA channels, as always.

Aldrith Shutaq
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2010.12.10 10:33:00 - [10]
 

Utterly disgusting. Once again, Koronakesh has exploited every loophole and allowance of human decency so that he may regain the ability to bestow the evil he so gladly spreads to the cluster.

Koronakesh is a sociopath. Completely and utterly lost to the rest of humanity. He deserves to die. Forever and without forgiveness. Get that through your heads. Koronakesh resists the Nation because he wants humanity to end, not to allow it to continue indefinitely under the artificial rule of Sansha Kuvakei. He wants to kill us all, and simply because Sansha has a way to empty humans of what makes them worth killing is reason enough for him.

Boma is an idiot. A drooling moron that should be locked into a room out of shame. Stop defending him, or you are also madman the same as him.

And Celestial Imperative, this so-called alliance of capsuleers trying to resist the Sansha, are little more than a pack of fools for following Boma and Koronakesh. Just because they claim they fight for humanity means nothing. They have placed themselves under this falsely righteous banner to fool us, so that when this threat is done with they can turn on us.

Now excuse me as I go vomit.

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.12.10 11:42:00 - [11]
 

I see no evidence in this thread to back up the alarmist claim made in the title.

Typical GalNet waste of space with imbeciles jumping to unfounded conclusions.

Tiara Demir
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.10 13:12:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Borza Slavak
I see no evidence in this thread to back up the alarmist claim made in the title.


I must agree. Consider the source of your information. If your enemy boasts and claims to have spies and agents in your friend, that is usually a pretty good sign that this is exactly not the case. If they actually had these resources, they'd keep them warm and close to their chests.

Johlie
Caldari
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.12.10 19:36:00 - [13]
 

Only a fool would believe that The Nation hasn't compromised CONCORD and Empire security. Although the severity of that compromise is debatable.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.12.10 19:49:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 10/12/2010 20:40:49
As a lot of us seem to be confused, could the original poster explain clearly why he thinks that the mails quoted prove something or other about this or that government being compromised by Sanhsa?

As is, to me, it sounds like the original poster is trying to put the blame on someone else after finding out that indeed, if you shoot Republic Fleet high-ups in Republic high-security space, you might be considered hostile to the Republic...

EDITed to add: It would, of course, be naive to believe that the Nation did not have spies inside CONCORD and Yulai signatories - or vice versa, or that CONCORD and the states would not spy on each other, too. Proof of such spies is hardly proof of being thoroughly compromised, however, and even less a grounds to engage everyone in some of those organizations.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
CEO
Gradient

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.12.10 21:39:00 - [15]
 

To summarize:

We set a trap, the fool took the bait, we aired some dirty laundry, and were bribed to shut up about it. We took the bribe, and didn't shut up.

Frankly, if I were a Republic loyalist, I would be outraged that our actions, regardless of intent, went totally unpunished once CONCORD figured out what we were doing.

Wynteryth Fett
Posted - 2010.12.11 15:43:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Boma Airaken
My XO and I received the following transmission upon arriving at the office this morning:

"The matter of your security status.
From: Citizen Astur
Sent: 2010.12.09 16:18
To: Boma Airaken, Koronakesh,

EoM are no friends of the Nation, but your assistance will has, all the same, not gone unnoticed.

If you wish for Sansha agents to unwind the harm done to you by CONCORD, I can instruct them to do so. This may not be a lasting solution if you once again reveal your intent to kill the dogs of the empires, but it will endure long enough for you to get safely to the frontier...



Boma - You don't seem to realize that nothing in that statement implicates CONCORD having been infiltrated, don't you? Wait. Clearly you don't. Unwinding the "harm done to you by CONCORD" could mean anything. Heck, it could mean them taking over and "uplifting" you and your brethren in your alliance..




Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.12.11 17:16:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 11/12/2010 17:18:11
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Frankly, if I were a Republic loyalist, I would be outraged that our actions, regardless of intent, went totally unpunished once CONCORD figured out what we were doing.

I am disappointed by CONCORD's decision, very much so.

I simply fail to see why I have to assume they are totally compromised to make it, though, to be that. I can easily see how e.g. the Empire or the State would protest against the idea that shooting Republic Navy can get your security status set to outlaw.

Even if there is one spy at a critical position, like I explain above, that is simply to be expected. The question in that case becomes more "what did it serve them to reveal themselves to you over a basically trivial matter of a couple of capsuleers going outlaw" than anything else.

Elsebeth Rhiannon

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.12.11 22:11:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon on 11/12/2010 17:18:11
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Frankly, if I were a Republic loyalist, I would be outraged that our actions, regardless of intent, went totally unpunished once CONCORD figured out what we were doing.

I am disappointed by CONCORD's decision, very much so.

I simply fail to see why I have to assume they are totally compromised to make it, though, to be that. I can easily see how e.g. the Empire or the State would protest against the idea that shooting Republic Navy can get your security status set to outlaw.

Even if there is one spy at a critical position, like I explain above, that is simply to be expected. The question in that case becomes more "what did it serve them to reveal themselves to you over a basically trivial matter of a couple of capsuleers going outlaw" than anything else.

Elsebeth Rhiannon


Good points all around Elsebeth. Our logic is that since CONCORD is made up of the big four, if CONCORD is compromised, the big four are.

You could argue all day long about whether or not it is to be expected. We don't care about that. We feel that it is our duty to release any piece of information, regardless of its perceived significance, regarding infiltration to the public at large. Plain and simple.

Julianus Soter
Gallente
Moira.
Posted - 2010.12.11 22:44:00 - [19]
 

You mean, of course, the Big Five.

Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2010.12.11 23:22:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Julianus Soter
You mean, of course, the Big Five.


Debatable, but for the sake of the conversation, yes.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.12.12 17:01:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Boma Airaken
Good points all around Elsebeth. Our logic is that since CONCORD is made up of the big four, if CONCORD is compromised, the big four are.

I disagree with that point too.

You also missed my point. My point was that in what you posted, I do not see proof that CONCORD is compromised. I see a possibility that a Sansha agent inside CONCORD might have revealed himself to you and offered aid.

Simply a possibility - as has been pointed out, the mails you quoted might have other explanations. And even if true, one hostile agent inside any organization is not proof of the whole organization being compromised or corrupt. I am 100 percent sure there is a Sansha agent currently inside the governmental bodies of each of the big four - and an agent of the big four inside Sansha, as well as each other. Anything else would be incredibly incompetent.

Even any capsuleer organization of any size knows that there is always a spy present. You do not always know who they are or who they are working for, but there's always someone. That does not mean you are "compromised" or "corrupt" as an entity; it is simply how the great game is played. Even more so for governments.

Hence, I find even the "if CONCORD is compromised" part of your statement suspect given current evidence.

Elsebeth


 

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