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xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.12.07 23:35:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: xxxak on 07/12/2010 23:36:54


I have a simple, elegant solution to the fact that BS are underpowered in EVE.

All ships in EvE have a short and long range weapon system.

Make BS weapon systems have only one range, with AMMO changing the range/tracking on weapons.


This would give BS a unique advantage over all smaller ship classes, and make them more interesting to fly again.

The skills that previously allowed you to use beams or pulse would now let you use the long or short range crystals/ammo/etc.

The different types of crystals/ammo would have exaggerated effects, with the longest range ammo hitting out to traditional sniper ranges with terrible tracking, and the shortest range ammo hitting only 10-20 KM with much better tracking.

NOTE: I realize this may cause some balance issues with Amarr. It might be time to look at the instant crystal change.

NOTE: I realize that this would cause PVE issues with Ravens/Golems. Perhaps some other fix can be created for missile BS. E.g. A new module that allows a player to trade raw DPS for better explosion velocity or explosion signature size.

Vinya Az'riel
Posted - 2010.12.07 23:42:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Vinya Az''riel on 07/12/2010 23:44:43
Originally by: xxxak
Edited by: xxxak on 07/12/2010 23:36:54


I have a simple, elegant solution to the fact that BS are underpowered in EVE.

All ships in EvE have a short and long range weapon system.

Make BS weapon systems have only one range, with AMMO changing the range/tracking on weapons.


This would give BS a unique advantage over all smaller ship classes, and make them more interesting to fly again.

The skills that previously allowed you to use beams or pulse would now let you use the long or short range crystals/ammo/etc.

The different types of crystals/ammo would have exaggerated effects, with the longest range ammo hitting out to traditional sniper ranges with terrible tracking, and the shortest range ammo hitting only 10-20 KM with much better tracking.

NOTE: I realize this may cause some balance issues with Amarr. It might be time to look at the instant crystal change.

NOTE: I realize that this would cause PVE issues with Ravens/Golems. Perhaps some other fix can be created for missile BS. E.g. A new module that allows a player to trade raw DPS for better explosion velocity or explosion signature size.


How much were you drinking before coming up with that idea? I know i had some before typing this up and it still doesn't make any sense.

xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.12.07 23:44:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: xxxak on 07/12/2010 23:44:30


Note that the overall tracking/damage/range of BS weapons would be approximately equal to what they are now.

The one advantage is that a BS pilot does not have to choose whether to fit long or short range weapons in a station-- he can switch ammo while out in the field.

Again, it gives a special advantage to BS, while not changing any fundamental aspect of EVE PVP (e.g. a huge Drake gang with invincible Scimitar support still will stomp on a midsized BS gang).

xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.12.07 23:47:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: xxxak on 07/12/2010 23:47:26

Originally by: Vinya Az'riel
Edited by: Vinya Az''riel on 07/12/2010 23:44:43
Originally by: xxxak
Edited by: xxxak on 07/12/2010 23:36:54

My amazingly smart idea.


How much were you drinking before coming up with that idea? I know i had some before typing this up and it still doesn't make any sense.


What don't you like about it?

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.07 23:53:00 - [5]
 

Range really isn't the issue for BSes. It's mobility, and the fact that they're incredibly easy to pin down.

Even if you could switch from (for instance) AC to Artillery mode on the fly, there are so many other elements that go into fitting for these different combat philosophies that the ability would be worthless. (What good is being able to go from shooting at 20KM to 150KM if you can only lock out to 70KM?)

Additionally: that would require a ridiculous amount of weapon rebalancing for dubious benefit. More than the Dominion projectile changes entailed.

Vinya Az'riel
Posted - 2010.12.07 23:55:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: xxxak
Edited by: xxxak on 07/12/2010 23:47:26

What don't you like about it?


Will be shorter if i just tell you what i like about your idea.
Here goes:

xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.12.08 00:10:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored
Range really isn't the issue for BSes. It's mobility, and the fact that they're incredibly easy to pin down.

Even if you could switch from (for instance) AC to Artillery mode on the fly, there are so many other elements that go into fitting for these different combat philosophies that the ability would be worthless. (What good is being able to go from shooting at 20KM to 150KM if you can only lock out to 70KM?)

Additionally: that would require a ridiculous amount of weapon rebalancing for dubious benefit. More than the Dominion projectile changes entailed.


Range and mobility are quite linked. Especially when you realize that in EVE range is also always linked to tracking.

I envision a system where the shortest range and best tracking BS ammo would be slightly better than the shortest range and best tracking BS now.

This gives them a chance against BC/HAC gangs again.

The bottom line is that my system would give people at least ONE good reason to fly BS again.

If BS are going to be extraordinary easy to pin down, and unable to lock ANYTHING smaller than a BS on a gate, you may as well give them SOME sort of advantage. Because right now with their tracking and range issues, they are doing about same DPS as a BC, with about the same tank, for much cheaper.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.08 00:26:00 - [8]
 

No, I see threads like this every day, and it proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that *BS* is OP in eve, not underpowered.

Shereza
Posted - 2010.12.08 01:19:00 - [9]
 

Sure-fire way to fix BS in EVE.

Step #1: Determine primary producer of BS.
Step #2: Neutralize primary producer.
Step #3: Repeat steps #1 and #2 as needed to reduce BS in EVE to acceptable numbers.
Step #4: Profit.

xxxak
Caldari
Intergalactic Syndicate
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.12.08 01:22:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Shereza
Sure-fire way to fix BS in EVE.

Step #1: Determine primary producer of BS.
Step #2: Neutralize primary producer.
Step #3: Repeat steps #1 and #2 as needed to reduce BS in EVE to acceptable numbers.
Step #4: Profit.


WTF are you talking about?

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.08 01:58:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 08/12/2010 02:08:37
Originally by: xxxak
WTF are you talking about?


He's using an alternative definition of BS...

Originally by: xxxak

Range and mobility are quite linked. Especially when you realize that in EVE range is also always linked to tracking.

I envision a system where the shortest range and best tracking BS ammo would be slightly better than the shortest range and best tracking BS now.

This gives them a chance against BC/HAC gangs again.


It wouldn't though. The shortest range and best tracking BS now has issues applying its damage to smaller ships up close. Battleships already do fantastic damage at mid ranges, where they can mulch up BCs if they stay there. Most of the time the issue is that they don't stay there.

The problem with Battleships isn't damage or tank or range. They can kill most midsized target very well, and they can project their damage fantastically. The problem is that the BSes counter, Supercarriers and low-sig HACs, are brutally efficient at their job.

I can't say if the Fighter Bomber nerf did enough to fix the first counter (swarms of normal Fighters are still lethal, afterall), but to counteract the second, BSes would need enough tracking to hit close cruisers consistently, which would be completely unbalanced, or they'd need the old webs back again, which were also completely unbalanced. Neutral

Shereza
Posted - 2010.12.08 02:55:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Seriously Bored
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 08/12/2010 02:08:37
Originally by: xxxak
WTF are you talking about?


He's using an alternative definition of BS...


I'm not saying you're wrong, or for that matter that you're right, but what I said was applicable through multiple definitions of "BS."

Artemis Rose
Clandestine Vector
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2010.12.08 03:01:00 - [13]
 

This new and original idea is different from switching from RF Emp/Fusion to Barrage or from switching from Multi L to Scorch L... in how many ways?

Sid Zero
State Wh0re Academy
Posted - 2010.12.08 04:21:00 - [14]
 

I think all BS weapons should have damage boosted by 15 - 25%.

Messing with lock times, agility, and speed, would just throw everything else out of balance again. The accross-the-board damage increase would not fix the drawbacks of BSes, but actually give pilots reasons to live with those drawbacks.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2010.12.08 04:26:00 - [15]
 

What's wrong with BS's as is?

fkingfurious
Posted - 2010.12.08 06:08:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: King Rothgar
What's wrong with BS's as is?


In any large scale fleet engagement (we're talking 0.0 here) BS's get murdered by Drake gangs/A-HAC gangs/Capital gangs/old ladies on zimmers.

The probing machanics mean that a close range fleet can warp to a long range (sniper) BS fleet within seconds of them coming out of warp. At close range they can't hit anything. At mid range they get kited and massacred by LOL Drake armies and as soon as you have enough BS on the field to warrant it (so about 3) it's only a matter of time till 30 Supercarriers materialise and guess what?

Yup.

All the BS die.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2010.12.08 06:46:00 - [17]
 

Sounds like you should stop trying to snipe and go point blank then. I don't think I've ever had a drake/AHAC break the tracking on one of my pulse geddons. I really haven't hung out in null sec much in the past year but the ships haven't changed any since the web nerf ages ago. In epic blob fights where there is an unplayable amount of lag, I can see any missile spammer having an advantage via FoF missiles. But outside of that, I just don't understand what you and countless others are complaining about.

Grut
The Protei
Posted - 2010.12.08 07:23:00 - [18]
 

To fix BS;

Introduce a probe for interdictors which jams all cynos within 20km.

Continue to reduce FB damage against sub-cap targets.

Roughlove
Posted - 2010.12.08 07:36:00 - [19]
 

I hate to rain on the whole "Fix BS" and "BS are underpowered" parade, but have any of you been following PL's kb? They've been raping face with both abaddon fleets and maelstrom fleets. They killed your vaunted draketrain with baddons. They're breaking your logistics-swarmed armor fleets with massive alpha...

Once PL's ideas become fotm (again) I get the feeling that there will be less whining about BS.

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.08 08:37:00 - [20]
 

Moved from 'Ships and Modules'.


Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.08 09:57:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Furb Killer on 08/12/2010 09:57:35
Originally by: Roughlove
I hate to rain on the whole "Fix BS" and "BS are underpowered" parade, but have any of you been following PL's kb? They've been raping face with both abaddon fleets and maelstrom fleets. They killed your vaunted draketrain with baddons. They're breaking your logistics-swarmed armor fleets with massive alpha...

Once PL's ideas become fotm (again) I get the feeling that there will be less whining about BS.

Not only them, enough alliance field many BS fleets and do fine with them, also against good opponents with the natural counter (AHACs) the BS have done very well.

CCP Spitfire


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.08 10:06:00 - [22]
 

Spam posts removed.



 

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