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blankseplocked Sansha PVE: Apoc or Tengu?
 
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rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2010.12.07 18:30:00 - [1]
 

So I'm at a bit of an indecision here and am looking for some suggestions.

I will be fighting Sansha NPC's in null, something I'm already familiar with. However, I need a new PVE boat.

In the past, I've used an Apocalypse with decent success.

With my skills, the Apoc fit I used to use did 488 dps with Scorch, and tanked 673dps EM/Therm.

I am, however, on the brink of purchasing a Tengu this time around. I'm not a big fan of buying faction/complex modules simply because I'm a bit of a cheapskate. Therefore, my projected Tengu fits aren't as epic as some others out there.

The one I've EFT'ed now does 537dps with Thunderbolt Fury, and 672dps with Scourge Fury missiles (not sure what to use...bonused, but wrong damage type, or unbonused but right damage type)

It also tanks 348dps EM/Therm, as well as moves at about 630m/s under afterburner.

Some pros and cons I can think of off the top of my head:

Apoc Pros:
-Half as expensive as the Tengu, insures nicely.
-Damage at 60+ km, and is instant
-No reloading, very little ammo consumed

Apoc Cons:
-Sansha Tracking Disruptors wreak havoc and are infuriating
-Ship moves very slowly (no prop mod)
-Scan resolution is terrible

Tengu Pros:
-More damage at greater range
-Tracking disruptors don't affect missiles (derp)
-Higher Scan resolution is nice
-Should be able to deal with frigates much more quickly
-Vastly more mobile than the Apoc, should speed/sig tank nicely

Tengu Cons:
-Much more expensive than Apoc
-Doesn't really insure
-Will go through a ton of missiles
-Sansha's do have defender missiles
-Local tank isn't so hot. Should be plenty as long as I can deal with webbing/scramming frigs quickly


So that's what I'm thinking so far. What are everyone else's thoughts?

Also, if anyone has any good fitting suggestions for the Tengu that can outperform what I've thrown together while using only T2 and lower mods and T1 rigs, please share!

Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
Posted - 2010.12.07 20:29:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Kneebone on 07/12/2010 20:32:35
If I might make a suggestion, have you tried looking into an Abaddon with beams? Or if you have good Sentry skills a Geddon with sentries is also a good choice. The Tengu's advantages are speed, less damage taken, but at the same time you are not getting the most out of the Tengu's DPS abilities. That being side you can use the Covert subsystem instead of the accel bay and it gives you an extra measure of defense if someone you don't like shows up. A Dominix is also a great low cost alternative as well if you like that sort of thing.

As far as the Tengu goes, the speed of it is the majority of your tank. You want to kill smallest to largest as those with small weapons/webs and medium sized weapons will do the most damage against you. HAve something in your cargo you can eject and orbit around at close to top speed or move around from target to target with a 2,500 to 5,000 orbit range. This setup works well if you decide for a HAM fit as well though the smaller targets will give you problems.

MeBiatch
Posted - 2010.12.07 20:57:00 - [3]
 

why dont you go for a nighthawk?

currently i am pulling in 20 mill a tick...
its not a pvp by any measure so best to have a pos in system to fly to...

rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2010.12.07 21:08:00 - [4]
 

Nighthawk is actually one skillbook (CS) away, if I'm remembering correctly, and something I had forgotten about. Question is, versus Sansha, would the Nighthawk even be worth it over a Drake? I'm more concerned about the DPS difference, that's why I was looking at the Tengu. I know I can PVE in a Drake just fine, but its DPS is far too low.

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2010.12.07 22:30:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: McRoll on 07/12/2010 22:33:28
Sansha incursions are meant to be completed in a fleet and Sansha are vulnerable to lasers. Amarr BS are good for fleets and have lasers so I thought its obvious. Probably gonna roll with an Apoc if im going to fly them:

[Apocalypse, Incursions]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Anti-Thermic Pump I
Large Energy Locus Coordinator I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I

600 DPS at 80 km with pulse, is pretty nice and is cheap, 90% EM/81,5% therm resistance should give your logistic pilot the time to rep you. Should probably do it for most sites, the hardest ones are gonna be flown with T3 I guess.

Edit: Nighthawk has a 0% EM hole as a base and only about 100 DPS more than a Drake... I wouldn't do it. From what I heard from the test server the incoming DPS is obscene so I'm probably gonna trimark that Apoc if the buffer turns out too little. Wouldn't risk an expensive ship until one knows what is gonna face you.

Altaica Amur
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.12.07 22:54:00 - [6]
 

I use something like this to solo Sanctums, primarily range tanked so you can pick off tracking disrupting NPCs and it also makes for a good group PvE ship to provide supporting DPS.

[Armageddon, PvE DPS]
3xHeat Sink II
Reactor Control Unit II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II

Sensor Booster II
2xCap Recharger II

7xTachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
2xLarge Ancillary Current Router I

Garde II x5

[Armageddon Navy Issue, New Setup 1]
3xHeat Sink II
Reactor Control Unit II
Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Power Diagnostic System II

4xCap Recharger II

7xTachyon Beam Laser II, Multifrequency L

Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ionic Field Projector I

Garde II x5

Both are stable using XRay at 50km if you're not having to rep and dealing 915 dps in return. Fighting at range also allows you to snipe off offending frigates and cruisers without a significant drop in DPS, I've managed 15 mil a tic using the geddon and could probably push higher using the navy geddon. Oh and with multi you're doing 1033 dps at 33km which is pretty hot, though you're not liable to be able to stick around at that range for very long considering the tank.

Vinya Az'riel
Posted - 2010.12.07 23:21:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: McRoll
Edited by: McRoll on 07/12/2010 22:33:28
Sansha incursions are meant to be completed in a fleet and Sansha are vulnerable to lasers. Amarr BS are good for fleets and have lasers so I thought its obvious. Probably gonna roll with an Apoc if im going to fly them:

[Apocalypse, Incursions]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Large Anti-Thermic Pump I
Large Energy Locus Coordinator I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I

600 DPS at 80 km with pulse, is pretty nice and is cheap, 90% EM/81,5% therm resistance should give your logistic pilot the time to rep you. Should probably do it for most sites, the hardest ones are gonna be flown with T3 I guess.

Edit: Nighthawk has a 0% EM hole as a base and only about 100 DPS more than a Drake... I wouldn't do it. From what I heard from the test server the incoming DPS is obscene so I'm probably gonna trimark that Apoc if the buffer turns out too little. Wouldn't risk an expensive ship until one knows what is gonna face you.



Did it slip past you that the incursion sansha do omni damage, and that you are recommending a ship with a nice explosive hole for the job?

McRoll
Minmatar
Heatseekers
Posted - 2010.12.08 10:25:00 - [8]
 

Omni damage? Yeah didn't notice that. In that case the Apoc should be fitted for even resists... but what about their weakness? They are still vulnerable to lasers, aren't they?

I'd like to use the Apoc for that job because it seems to be the best choice isk/performance wise if lasers are the weapon of choice. If it dooesn't matter what you shoot at them this opens way more possibilities in terms of ships.

Sessym
Amarr
Posted - 2010.12.08 10:37:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: McRoll
Omni damage? Yeah didn't notice that. In that case the Apoc should be fitted for even resists... but what about their weakness? They are still vulnerable to lasers, aren't they?

I'd like to use the Apoc for that job because it seems to be the best choice isk/performance wise if lasers are the weapon of choice. If it dooesn't matter what you shoot at them this opens way more possibilities in terms of ships.


They omnitank. And use neuts. OH GOD THE NEWTS...

rodensteiner
Amarr
OMGROFLSTOMP
Posted - 2010.12.08 15:39:00 - [10]
 

I do appreciate the comments and suggestions so far.

I'm looking for something that will run Anomalies quickly. I know I can solo pretty much all of them in an Apocalypse, it just takes too long. I've also done Sansha Anomalies with an AC Muninn, which was actually easier as tanking the NPC's was laughably easy, but again, it took too long as the DPS wasn't high enough and the weapon range so short.

I don't really PVE for enjoyment, just for ISK, so the quicker I can complete an Anomaly, the better. I know a Battleship can put out tremendous raw DPS and tank well, but they're so boring to fly, and everything happens so slowly with them, plus frigates are an annoyance.

The reason the Tengu had been appealing as it speed/sig tanks well, has a strong local tank, and does good dps at great range with heavy missiles. The only thing I'm having trouble with is how to deal with Sansha's with one because of the damage types involved.

Gemberslaafje
Vivicide
Posted - 2010.12.08 15:42:00 - [11]
 

Don't mix Sansha INCURSIONS with Sansha PVE ;) This guy is obviously just interested in doing the plexes/belts already available.

Terianna Eri
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.12.08 17:27:00 - [12]
 

for cheap solutions I'd go for a beam abaddon or if you can make it work, the tachyon armageddon posted earlier in this thread (that thing looks fscking brutal).

depending on how much you PVE consider investing in a paladin which will burn through rats very quickly and can make some additional money on loot/salvage (iirc sansha salvage is pretty good)


 

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