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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.03.20 15:30:00 - [1801]
 

Edited by: Chesty McJubblies on 20/03/2011 15:36:25
Originally by: Angel of Night
Proof, evidence, quessing, no point at <insert word here>, not true...



This.

Edit - I meant to say "what is this?"

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.03.20 15:50:00 - [1802]
 

Skreeg,
gotta ask man,

Linkage

where is this supposed important announcement you allude to that will satisfy us (just dont set your aims too high)

Vincent Athena
Posted - 2011.03.20 15:58:00 - [1803]
 

Its part of the "security" presentation, or so says the fanfest brochure:

"Hear what CCP has done to improve security over the past few months and our developing process to deal with the various issues that can impact people’s enjoyment of the game -such as bots, authentication and client security."

CCP Sreegs has said he considers it a security issue. I guess because many bot programs also hack accounts of the users, and violate the security of the client.

Katie Tanaka
Posted - 2011.03.20 16:33:00 - [1804]
 

Originally by: dexington
There is no proof anything illegal have been going on, if you convict people based on suspicion how are they ever going to prove their innocence?

Hey I'm not convicting anyone (would it mean anything if I did?)

Obviously there's no proof of anything available to us, only CCP could determine that. It's not exactly like this is a court of law and the issue is sub iudice. Don't want people to talk about what you're doing in EVE? Don't do dumb / weird / suspicious stuff in public.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.03.20 16:46:00 - [1805]
 

Originally by: Katie Tanaka
Don't want people to talk about what you're doing in EVE? Don't do dumb / weird / suspicious stuff in public.


There is a clear difference between saying someone is doing dumb / weird / suspicious stuff, and claiming they are doing bannable offenses without any solid proof.

Sullen Skoung
Posted - 2011.03.20 20:12:00 - [1806]
 

isnt it also a actionable offense on the forums to call people out in the game? Is it me or do the mods go home on the weekends

Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2011.03.20 21:10:00 - [1807]
 

Originally by: Sullen Skoung
isnt it also a actionable offense on the forums to call people out in the game? Is it me or do the mods go home on the weekends


CCP is studiously avoiding this thread and will just lock it once it has descended far enough into insults and namecalling.

I'll just restate: We're not asking CCP to ban people based purely on the stuff players dig up. We're simply saying "Here, this looks suspicious. Plese investigate."

It appears some people have a problem with that. Why, I wouldn't know. What would be a good reason to not want CCP to look into RMT?

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.03.20 21:36:00 - [1808]
 

Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
I'll just restate: We're not asking CCP to ban people based purely on the stuff players dig up. We're simply saying "Here, this looks suspicious. Plese investigate."


MAKE A PETITION, the forums are not the place to report suspicious behavior.

Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
It appears some people have a problem with that. Why, I wouldn't know. What would be a good reason to not want CCP to look into RMT?


Yes, some people are having a problem with you being to dim to understand the correct use of petitions and the forums. No one is trying to stop CCP from doing anything, except maybe you. If you would petition the problem and not using it for attention whoring on the forums, maybe something would be done about it.

d4shing
Posted - 2011.03.20 22:56:00 - [1809]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
I'll just restate: We're not asking CCP to ban people based purely on the stuff players dig up. We're simply saying "Here, this looks suspicious. Plese investigate."


MAKE A PETITION, the forums are not the place to report suspicious behavior.

Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
It appears some people have a problem with that. Why, I wouldn't know. What would be a good reason to not want CCP to look into RMT?


Yes, some people are having a problem with you being to dim to understand the correct use of petitions and the forums. No one is trying to stop CCP from doing anything, except maybe you. If you would petition the problem and not using it for attention whoring on the forums, maybe something would be done about it.


You sound like someone who has never tried to petition bots. They don't get a response and get auto-closed after like a week, and the botters keep farming away. The only way to get CCP to take action is to embarrass them with how rote, boring, and corrupt their gameplay has become.

Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2011.03.20 23:54:00 - [1810]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
I'll just restate: We're not asking CCP to ban people based purely on the stuff players dig up. We're simply saying "Here, this looks suspicious. Plese investigate."


MAKE A PETITION, the forums are not the place to report suspicious behavior.


Right. And you think I haven't? Oh wait, you know I have as I've mentioned that previously. As other people have said, nothing has been done. 4 days so far on my petition, still "open", no response from CCP. None expected, but hey, at least I'm following the process.

CCPs record on acting on exploits has been abysmal. There's no other word for it. Only when people get loud about it does anything get done. T20. POS bowling. Monkeysphere. Moongoo duping. If petitioning did anything then this whole thread would never have existed.

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
It appears some people have a problem with that. Why, I wouldn't know. What would be a good reason to not want CCP to look into RMT?


Yes, some people are having a problem with you being to dim to understand the correct use of petitions and the forums. No one is trying to stop CCP from doing anything, except maybe you. If you would petition the problem and not using it for attention whoring on the forums, maybe something would be done about it.


Forums are for discussion. Is that not what we're doing? If the forums weren't for discussion of this topic, surely it would have gotten locked by now? Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand the correct use of petitions and the forums.

And what exactly am I trying to stop CCP from doing?

I'm having a hard time imagining anyone could be as dim as you, so the only conclusion is that you're just trolling and/or flamebaiting.

Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2011.03.21 00:12:00 - [1811]
 

And just to frustrate Dex even more, check out the contract history of "blackferret". Looks like ISK sellers now accept courier contracts with huge collateral and are failing them intentionally. EG a courier contract with 2bn collateral and 1000 ISK reward.

I find it funny that one of his contracts was picked up and completed by a legit player before the RMT'er could get to it. Someone must have been travelling that way anyway 'cos it sure wasn't for the generous pay. Laughing

link removed. If you wish to report someone please submit a petition - Adida

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.03.21 08:54:00 - [1812]
 

Quote:

If you would petition the problem and not using it for attention whoring on the forums, maybe something would be done about it.



This is only true on paper.
A year of continuous petitioning over an ice belt super bot (with 1-2 Orcas and a cloud of hulks all with the same corp and similar names) active 23.5/7/365 has never, never, NEVER caused a single of them to be removed.

He's so hugely known for being a bot that a 0.0 alliance comes to hi sec to smart bomb all of them like it's "routine". The few hulks / macks that survive to the smart bombing (killing > 10 every time) keep happily mining during the whole big attack like nothing happened. Other survived pods keep going to and from the station to the belt, all day long.
The next day they are all back in their ships and digging away. ALL, never one goes amiss or is banned.

WTF do you want more from the players?

That we stay forever hands in hands like sogging morons while CCP does Z E R O effective actions since years?

Go and make yourself a dozen of petitions and come back posting about what happened to the bots.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.03.21 10:45:00 - [1813]
 

Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
I'll just restate: We're not asking CCP to ban people based purely on the stuff players dig up. We're simply saying "Here, this looks suspicious. Plese investigate."


MAKE A PETITION, the forums are not the place to report suspicious behavior.




In case you've missed the hunderds of posts stating the problem with this, allow me to restate it very simply:

Petitioning bots has no perceptible result, and that's what we're angry about.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.03.21 11:21:00 - [1814]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Go and make yourself a dozen of petitions and come back posting about what happened to the bots.


Prior to this month I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly that petitioning is useless, however, in the past month I have reported over 92 bots via petition and of those reported I have seen about 18 bots now that have gone away for good, about another 12 that went away for about a week but are now back and the rest continue on happily. Is this a result of the petitions and CCP stepping up their game a little, or is this just natural causes? I'm not sure since we don't get feedback from CCP on actions taken, but my hunch is that CCP is stepping up their game a little.

This doesn't eliminate the fact that many solar systems (like Kronsur) are overrun with bots and that fact has been made clear to CCP on numerous occasions and yet there continues to be this gap between actions taken and the number of bots working in that system.

As Sreegs has stated, it's not feasible to assign 30 GMs 23.5/7/365 to staring at their screens looking for bots, and unfortunately this includes (by virtue of how GMs typically hear about bots) that they don't have enough staff to really even cover our existing petitions and therefore action, if any, is slow and deliberately targeted at only the largest (single) offenders (despite the fact that large swaths of alliances bot to beat the sov system CCP thought would open up more space to the rest of us... which, btw, epic fail on that one CCP). This is one of the topics I'm hopeful Sreegs will be covering in his presentation - how they are going to address a) the actual procedure of reporting, following up on and passing down the ban hammer to offenders, and b) the perception left with users after reporting bots. The latter will be key to keeping their customer base from going off the deep end and having a mass exodus, as many have promised to do failing any kind of actual factual data on what CCP intends to do to solve for this problem. Myself included.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2011.03.21 11:35:00 - [1815]
 

Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 21/03/2011 11:36:24
Originally by: Kuronaga
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: sableye
complain to your isp not to eve they don't control your connection

No they don't control the connection but they control the bitcode that is being flagged. Like I said before, this happened when CCP changed the bitcode not because all of a sudden ISP's started shaping traffic in peak times.

Its sortof like making me dress up as a bear on a hunting reserve and then going, well yeah people are taking potshots at you but its not our bear suit, its the hunters with guns...


Perhaps its your fault for being in the bear suit, and doing nothing to get out of it.

You should have known something was up when they asked you to dress as a bear.

bearsuit is the bitcode lookin like p2p traffic.
hunters are the traffic shapers lookin for p2p traffic.
they never asked, they changed it without consultation or thinking.

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.03.21 11:53:00 - [1816]
 

I'm just giving you a hard time.

But if I was in your position, I would be complaining to your ISP directly.

Neither my ISP nor anyone elses I personally know have done anything that stupid. Pretty sure the fault lies with them.

CCP Adida


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2011.03.21 11:59:00 - [1817]
 

Removed a post that directly linked a character. If you wish to report someone please submit a petition.

Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
S I L E N T.
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:37:00 - [1818]
 

No significant changes in RMT ISK prices, doesn't look like ISK sellers are feeling any heat...

Higgs Foton
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:46:00 - [1819]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
I'll just restate: We're not asking CCP to ban people based purely on the stuff players dig up. We're simply saying "Here, this looks suspicious. Plese investigate."


MAKE A PETITION, the forums are not the place to report suspicious behavior.




In case you've missed the hunderds of posts stating the problem with this, allow me to restate it very simply:

Petitioning bots has no perceptible result, and that's what we're angry about.


I am pretty sure petitioning will not result in anything. Like i said a page ago: There are rumors that some people at the GM department are working for RMTers. The GM department is not part of CCP, or let me rephrase that: Is not on iceland. There is no control on GM's, and since GM is basically volunteerswork or severely underpaid, there is a strong chance for corruption. When you see what ISK bank makes in profits you can imagine it will not be hard to buy a few guys who will close all outstanding petitions on botters with a "We will investigate, thank you" and then do nothing about it.

Read about it on evenews24. And connect the dots. Petitioning doesn't work, much money can be made with RMT. When you can make almost 300.000-400.000dollars a year with RMT making sure people at the one department able to ban botters looking the other way is a wise investment.

Offcourse these are all rumors, but this sure does explain a lot! The other alternative is sheer incompetence of the GM department. Also a viable theory though.

MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.03.21 14:55:00 - [1820]
 

Edited by: MatrixSkye Mk2 on 21/03/2011 14:55:11
Originally by: Kengutsi Akira
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Wow. Some of the comments on this thread seem to suggest this is nothing more than a witch hunt against players that enjoy mining and missioning.

By the definitions put forth here I am a bot Rolling Eyes.

Feel free to report me.





wont matter lol
That's a shame. Have you figured out why that may be?

Xylengra
Posted - 2011.03.21 15:19:00 - [1821]
 

Edited by: Xylengra on 21/03/2011 15:20:00
Originally by: Consortium Agent
... keeping their customer base from going off the deep end and having a mass exodus, as many have promised to do failing any kind of actual factual data on what CCP intends to do to solve for this problem. Myself included.


Bwahhahhhahahahhahaha @ mass exodus.

Never.Gonna.Happen.Dude.

Been around this and other MMOs for far too long to believe in mass exoduses. You leave and take a couple-three thousand with you and MY game here will be much more enjoyable, and I think the vast majority of players - the "base" - feel the same way.

CCP isn't threatened by these kind of threats in the slightest. Your belief that they might be is only a product of your illusions of grandeur. Get over yourself and either play the game or move on to something else. Your analysis of the problem is only one of many, and not one, I think, that will matter much at all in the end.

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.03.21 15:32:00 - [1822]
 

Originally by: CCP Adida
Removed a post that directly linked a character. If you wish to report someone please submit a petition.


But that'd achieve nothing. Whereas linking gives the community something to chuckle at for a second.

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.03.21 22:33:00 - [1823]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 21/03/2011 22:33:29

Looking at implant prices in Jita we have seen a steady decline during the last month (after a short period of rebound/stabilization before).

Up to anyone's guess if this is due to botting becoming rampant (on buy orders we are nearing pre-unholy rage levels of sell orders) or botters slowly liquidating stock as they are scared of CCP action.

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2011.03.22 00:00:00 - [1824]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

Looking at implant prices in Jita we have seen a steady decline during the last month (after a short period of rebound/stabilization before).

Up to anyone's guess if this is due to botting becoming rampant (on buy orders we are nearing pre-unholy rage levels of sell orders) or botters slowly liquidating stock as they are scared of CCP action.


Would there be any point in liquidating stock except to sell all the isk?. I'm not sure RMT sites can increase the demand for isk, but lowering the prices, after all most of their customers should know they increase the chance of detection the more isk they buy. To me it seems that the demand for isk would remain the same, and the RMT sites would either have to start selling isk at lower prices, which would be equal to giving it away for free. Or they would have to sit on a massive amount of isk, and hope no one detects it.

Is there any reason why it would be safer for the RMT sites to hide the isk, compared to items?. The action of selling the items may raise some flags, why not just wait it out and make as little noise as possible. It's not like running away to mexico with all the isk is an option :)

Calistai Huranu
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2011.03.22 08:47:00 - [1825]
 

So any news on when and where at fanfest the presentation concerning this issue will be iterated on at fanfest?


Jimmy Dread
Posted - 2011.03.22 09:40:00 - [1826]
 

Originally by: Katie Tanaka
Don't do dumb / weird / suspicious stuff in public.



People doing dumb/weird/suspicious stuff in public is a large part of what makes EVE cool.

Amber Accelerando
Posted - 2011.03.22 12:10:00 - [1827]
 

the curse of all MMO's. scumbags! actually it's like the curse of humanity really, this is a microcosm +1

Sito Jaxa
Posted - 2011.03.22 15:31:00 - [1828]
 

For years there has been an argument where people complain that its unfair for others to be able to sell GTC (now plex) and use their real life income to 'get ahead of the curve'. But it has always been that the majority of the players have understood that the people who spend real money for a high sp char and fancy ship will lack the knowledge of how to effectively use their assets, thereby providing the luls for lower sp cheaper characters that have taken the time to learn2play.

What is so different about rmt/botting than the endorsed GTC method this game has had since before most of you even started here? The deciding factor in power for this game has always been one of skill (be it social or technical), and isk has always been secondary. Botting is the same 'balance tipper' as RMT where players lacking skill trade for assets which they will never leverage effectively.

Amassing piles of isk is not the end-game for EVE. EVE is a sandbox game and its up to you to decide what to do here. If the idea is to set your own goals then just try setting goals which a swarm of bots won't ruin and in the end of the day you'll be a lot happier.

FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2011.03.22 16:13:00 - [1829]
 

Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome
I'll just restate: We're not asking CCP to ban people based purely on the stuff players dig up. We're simply saying "Here, this looks suspicious. Plese investigate."


MAKE A PETITION, the forums are not the place to report suspicious behavior.


Right. And you think I haven't? Oh wait, you know I have as I've mentioned that previously. As other people have said, nothing has been done. 4 days so far on my petition, still "open", no response from CCP. None expected, but hey, at least I'm following the process.

CCPs record on acting on exploits has been abysmal. There's no other word for it. Only when people get loud about it does anything get done. T20. POS bowling. Monkeysphere. Moongoo duping. If petitioning did anything then this whole thread would never have existed.


I hear the full eve client source code for incursion is available in torrents.
More exploits and better bots are on the way probably.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.03.22 19:16:00 - [1830]
 

Originally by: Xylengra
Edited by: Xylengra on 21/03/2011 15:20:00
Bwahhahhhahahahhahaha @ mass exodus.

Never.Gonna.Happen.Dude.

Been around this and other MMOs for far too long to believe in mass exoduses. You leave and take a couple-three thousand with you and MY game here will be much more enjoyable, and I think the vast majority of players - the "base" - feel the same way.

CCP isn't threatened by these kind of threats in the slightest. Your belief that they might be is only a product of your illusions of grandeur. Get over yourself and either play the game or move on to something else. Your analysis of the problem is only one of many, and not one, I think, that will matter much at all in the end.


I can sum up your entire argument with one simple counter-argument:

Star Wars Galaxies

'nuff said.



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