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blankseplocked WE ARE FED UP!!!! TIME TO MAKE SOME NOISE ABOUT RMT AND BOTTING!!!!
 
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DR Blues
Posted - 2010.12.22 13:18:00 - [481]
 

Originally by: Superpossee
Posting to prevent the thread from being ignored. New potential players reading this should know that eve has a cheating-problem

Is bying timecodes with RLM en sell them here legal for isk not cheating?
The answer is no because ccp makes profit this way.
Selling timecodes and plex = buying ships, bpo and caracters with rlm from ccp.
Not that i have anything against that. I buy timecodes Laughing


Pesadel0
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2010.12.22 13:38:00 - [482]
 

Originally by: DR Blues
Originally by: Superpossee
Posting to prevent the thread from being ignored. New potential players reading this should know that eve has a cheating-problem

Is bying timecodes with RLM en sell them here legal for isk not cheating?
The answer is no because ccp makes profit this way.
Selling timecodes and plex = buying ships, bpo and caracters with rlm from ccp.
Not that i have anything against that. I buy timecodes Laughing




I dont know about you but i canīt really compete against a player that is making bilions of cash .

Khors
El Barco Pirata
Posted - 2010.12.22 14:56:00 - [483]
 

If I had millions of cash I guess I could afford some more costly ships and layout, but at the end of the day, I still get along well with my only account, making enough isk to get standard ships and the main strength for any pvp'er is not the skillpoints or equipment, it's how it's used.
Plex is only only one shortcut.

The point is while I don't think I suffer personally from botting, I rather see CCP getting the resources when selling plex, than someone making a living out of botting and selling the isk.

Bhattran
Posted - 2010.12.22 20:27:00 - [484]
 

Botting doesn't always lead to RMT or isk sales, which I believe CCP works against, but it kind of makes sense if you are botting away piling up billion on billions of isk you'd probably then think "why not sell this ****?" since there is only so much isk you 'need' anyway. So some of those people probably do that but not all, the others are smarter to just bot away and have unlimited isk to do what they want.

It is the issue of players using bots to make isk for themselves that is the issue CCP repeatedly is seen as ignoring, because it doesn't compete with their product Game Time Codes converted to PLEX and sold ingame for ISK.

Bottom line CCP seems to look the other way for botting when no Real Money Transactions are involved because those botting use up PLEX, decreasing the stock piles on the market, less PLEX on market means higher ISK return on real money spent for them, which means CCP's option to 'buy' isk gets closer to the RMT prices.

The 'cost' to CCP is continued sources of 'isk' for RMT, competition for 'isk' sales, bad PR from players who see the problem, a set number of what must be thousands, probably ten thousand or so of 'subscribers' who tax their HW by botting regularly, a false sense of how many people actually play their game, among others.



StillBorn CrackBaby
Posted - 2010.12.22 20:34:00 - [485]
 

Originally by: Bhattran
... doesn't compete with their product Game Time Codes converted to PLEX and sold ingame for ISK.

Game Times Codes are NOT converted to PLEX and "sold" for ISK.

Game Time Codes are "traded" for ISK in the Timecode Bazarr. No PLEX are involved...

Cyaxares II
Posted - 2010.12.22 20:55:00 - [486]
 

Edited by: Cyaxares II on 22/12/2010 20:58:15
Originally by: StillBorn CrackBaby
Originally by: Bhattran
... doesn't compete with their product Game Time Codes converted to PLEX and sold ingame for ISK.

Game Times Codes are NOT converted to PLEX and "sold" for ISK.

Game Time Codes are "traded" for ISK in the Timecode Bazarr. No PLEX are involved...

you should check your facts before making "look, how dumb you are" statements like this. You know, it's pretty embarrassing when they backfire...

of course you can convert GTCs to PLEX if you want to (but you cannot convert 2x PLEX into a GTC afaik).

[ESC] -> Convert ETC

Selling GTCs on the forums only means longer waiting times, leaving a public paper trail and often getting a worse price than you could have expected in-game.

RedShadow
Evoke.
Ev0ke
Posted - 2010.12.22 23:26:00 - [487]
 

Edited by: RedShadow on 22/12/2010 23:27:22
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Superpossee
Posting to prevent the thread from being ignored. New potential players reading this should know that eve has a cheating-problem

Not only a cheating problem, but a cheating problem the dev's simply ignore, even when presented with incontestable proof:

Quote:
Guy #1: http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/botter1.jpg http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/botter2.jpg http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/botter3.jpg http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/botter4.jpg Guy #2: http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/20091102231706.jpg Guy #3: http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/frm00524.JPG


Can't check right now but this evidence, along with the forums where these were posted, was given to CCP a few weeks ago, whats the bet they're still botting in game today?



We received word of these screenies and since evoke doesn't support any botters, the regarding member is being kicked from the corp.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2010.12.23 02:13:00 - [488]
 

Originally by: RedShadow
Edited by: RedShadow on 22/12/2010 23:27:22
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Superpossee
Posting to prevent the thread from being ignored. New potential players reading this should know that eve has a cheating-problem

Not only a cheating problem, but a cheating problem the dev's simply ignore, even when presented with incontestable proof:

Quote:
Guy #1: http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/botter1.jpg http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/botter2.jpg http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/botter3.jpg http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/botter4.jpg Guy #2: http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/20091102231706.jpg Guy #3: http://www.randomhost.org/botterimgs/frm00524.JPG


Can't check right now but this evidence, along with the forums where these were posted, was given to CCP a few weeks ago, whats the bet they're still botting in game today?



We received word of these screenies and since evoke doesn't support any botters, the regarding member is being kicked from the corp.

Good to see you guys stepping up.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.23 10:14:00 - [489]
 

Well I've just done what might be my last petition ever on this.

I've petitioned 20 characters who aren't just obvious, they're blatant.

If they're still here in a couple of weeks then I know that CCP simply don't care about cheating unless it involves RMT.

Do make sure you're all pointing new/returning players at this thread. Best they know the score as early as possible.

leich
Amarr
Sad Panda'z
Posted - 2010.12.23 11:08:00 - [490]
 

I have no Problems with botting.

I think it's good for the game not bad.

RMT is another issue and should be dealt with harshly.

RMT and botting or not mutually exclusive so can we please separate them.


Superpossee
Posted - 2010.12.23 11:12:00 - [491]
 

Originally by: leich
I have no Problems with botting.

I think it's good for the game not bad.

RMT is another issue and should be dealt with harshly.

RMT and botting or not mutually exclusive so can we please separate them.




I have no problems with RMT.

I think its only bad for ccp, not the players.

Botting is another issue and should be dealt with harshly.

RMT and botting or not mutually exclusive so can we please separate them.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.23 19:48:00 - [492]
 

Originally by: Othran
Well I've just done what might be my last petition ever on this.

I've petitioned 20 characters who aren't just obvious, they're blatant.

If they're still here in a couple of weeks then I know that CCP simply don't care about cheating unless it involves RMT.

Do make sure you're all pointing new/returning players at this thread. Best they know the score as early as possible.


Mmmm odd that within an hour of this post I get some "eastern" attention.

Bring it if you like lads - no bubbles = epic fail on your part. Do keep bringing in the alts though.....

coolzero
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.23 20:32:00 - [493]
 

ban the botters.....

in o.o at least you can shoot them down...but in high sec they are always there and at the end of the day stripped the belt before you can get to it(yes i know you can mine in other system...guess what...they are there too......


reported many suspected bots...never any signs they have been banned of punished....

guess CCP doesnt care all that much about it or at least i cant see it.

Starfall Achura
Posted - 2010.12.23 21:14:00 - [494]
 

Originally by: Fried'chickenisha
Forum bot x5000......pick one reply

1) STFU noob
2) go back to WoW
3) you mad?
4) Umad
5) cooly story bra
6) your mother

random pick #6

Your mother



What in the hell happened to "Amirite?"?!?!?!? I demand you add it to the Forum bot!!! What kind of junk are you trying to peddle around here?

Trajan Ultor
Posted - 2010.12.23 21:36:00 - [495]
 

If CCP did something about macro-bots, especially the ones in 0.0, do you have any idea how many Russians would emo-rage-quit ? Entire alliances would collapse.

Superpossee
Posted - 2010.12.24 09:27:00 - [496]
 

Originally by: Trajan Ultor
If CCP did something about macro-bots, especially the ones in 0.0, do you have any idea how many Russians would emo-rage-quit ? Entire alliances would collapse.


So?

Cupio Mortem
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.12.24 09:30:00 - [497]
 

Originally by: Superpossee
Originally by: Trajan Ultor
If CCP did something about macro-bots, especially the ones in 0.0, do you have any idea how many Russians would emo-rage-quit ? Entire alliances would collapse.


So?


So byebye funding for Incarna

coolzero
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.24 11:21:00 - [498]
 

Quote:
We will continue to allow people to use PLEX to pay for their tickets to Fanfest, gathering as many players as possible. Using PLEX, attendees can attend Fanfest simply by playing EVE!

We are making the Plex for Passes system easier for everyone. Now you can simply use the redeeming system in account management to get your ticket(s) to Fanfest 2011.

1 Fanfest Access Pass = 6 PLEX
1 Spouse (SoE) Access Pass = 12 PLEX



well this should be easy for people who use macro's, if i read how much they are making....


Dienowthxbay
Posted - 2010.12.24 13:27:00 - [499]
 

Playing since 2004, i saw a lot, this will probably kill not eve but playerbase :(
Take a look and u will feel being idiots playing RMT + CCP both making money...
Eve-news
info 1
info 2

sakana
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.24 14:05:00 - [500]
 

jus posting to note the irony of an NC member complaining about RMT.


although thats probably been covered somewhere in the last 17 pages


Jaqel Broadside
Posted - 2010.12.24 15:39:00 - [501]
 

Originally by: Cupio Mortem
Originally by: Superpossee
Originally by: Trajan Ultor
If CCP did something about macro-bots, especially the ones in 0.0, do you have any idea how many Russians would emo-rage-quit ? Entire alliances would collapse.


So?


So byebye funding for Incarna


I don't know anyone who plays Eve for Incarna.

I do know lot's of people who would like to ACTUALLY be able to get into 0.0 without getting into Alliance idiotfare

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2010.12.24 17:19:00 - [502]
 

Confirming I'm FEED UP with Gingerbread cookies. Merry Christmas.

Lady Aja
Posted - 2010.12.24 22:20:00 - [503]
 

everytime i see a 14 day trail account magnate hauler in my my area i pettion then and they now get banned fairly fast.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2010.12.25 01:40:00 - [504]
 

Originally by: Dienowthxbay
Playing since 2004, i saw a lot, this will probably kill not eve but playerbase :(
Take a look and u will feel being idiots playing RMT + CCP both making money...
Eve-news
info 1
info 2

If people are making 400bil a month like the guy claims in the first link then any sort of economic warfare becomes redundant and the game is simply broken for anyone playing alliances the way it was intended.

Certainly hope that's not true.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.25 04:14:00 - [505]
 

ccp allows the game to happen a certain way

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.12.25 14:53:00 - [506]
 

Originally by: HeliosGal
ccp allows the game to happen a certain way


Fascinating topic.

I think the above must surely be the case. After all, CCP are computer geeks like many other players here, they must know the commonly-used softwares, etc., etc., in fact they probably have them installed themselves, to see how they work! It's no great mystery.

The obvious conclusion is that a certain amount of it is tolerated so long as it's not hurting the bottom line, and there must be many ways in which people can do this stuff without hurting CCP's bottom line. Presumably the only ones that do hurt CCP's bottom line are the rl isk sellers who bypass the GTC/Plex system CCP have set up, and I'd be willing to bet CCP do go after them if and when they find them. But EVE is a big place, and people are clever.

But those who work within CCP's rules to make large amounts of isk or even some rl money? All good, clean fun from CCP's point of view, so far as I can fathom. In a way, they're just doing a meta version of what rentiers do in-game, or what a franchise might do irl.

And to be fair to CCP, it's clear that EVE is also a labour of love, and I believe they do also have some dedication to the artistic concept of making the world's first true all-in s-f simulator, so I think they're willing to do whatever it takes to get there - and that's a good thing for all of us.

One might think, well what about those who just play the game? Well, they get a great game to play, that keeps rolling, and keeps updating - I can say that because I'm one of them, I'm just a Bartle "Explorer" type who likes goofing off pretending to be a space pilot for a few hours a night. Bartle "Player Killers" are obviously well-catered for in EVE too, as are "Social" players.

The only losers, and that only in a psychological sense, are those who have a psychological barrier against all this kind of stuff happening - Bartle "Achievers" who have romantic notions about gameplay and what's fair and right in MMOs, and whose sense of achievement is tied to "achievement" in terms of the virtual game world. All this kind of botting stuff cheapens their experience. As a Bartle "Explorer", I don't have much sympathy for that type of player, but I recognise that the situation as it currently stands must hurt.

On a more general level, this kind of thing was foreseen long ago by s-f writers like Vernor Vinge and canvassed more recently by Charlie Stross. The idea that virtual worlds could be places where people can make real life money is a well-known trope, and it's obviously just going to expand as time goes on.

Meridian Siri
Posted - 2010.12.26 15:51:00 - [507]
 

Imoa CCP has done a passably good job at building a game that cover a diverse set of game playing "styles". I think that the impact of botters on the game is probably felt less by the really casual explorer-type (as described above). Their impact is felt more as a such a player tries to expand their horizons into other content of the game. A lot of the game (even PvP) is based in economics; when botters are on the board, it make it unrealistic that the honest player will be able to compete.

Miss President
Caldari
SOLARIS ASTERIUS
Posted - 2010.12.26 16:45:00 - [508]
 

Originally by: Meridian Siri
Imoa CCP has done a passably good job at building a game that cover a diverse set of game playing "styles". I think that the impact of botters on the game is probably felt less by the really casual explorer-type (as described above). Their impact is felt more as a such a player tries to expand their horizons into other content of the game. A lot of the game (even PvP) is based in economics; when botters are on the board, it make it unrealistic that the honest player will be able to compete.


Last sentence is very true. To make things really work, CCP needs to do a life time ban on accounts associated with Bots, and secondary accounts where isk and good are transferred from bot account.

CCP is afraid for it's profit, and ruining fair game play, they give out minor accounts suspensions from what I hear. Make players caught with bots suffer majorly by losing everything they have and all their accounts, be that 2 3 4 or 5 accounts all banned. Lesser punishment would be full stripping of all assets on all accounts, and 1 month ban?

This will discourage 90% of players who uses bots for in game profit, ISK sellers will remain a separate issue, but the first is a big advancement.


Angie McFish
Gallente
Caldari Industrial Capitalist Consortium
Posted - 2010.12.26 21:52:00 - [509]
 

I wouldn't mind botting as much if there was a risk involved in it. Now from what I've gathered, they are pretty much bulletproof. If CCP would introduce some kind of botting countermeasure which would let us attack these cheaters. Maybe some logoffski timer, anti-cloak equipment, dock request times, slower acceleration for mining ships, W-space kind of local chat?

These are just a few ideas I can come up with to make botting more dangerous. Risk vs reward, considering 400bil/month is a pretty juicy reward, I believe the risk should be much greater

De Su
Posted - 2010.12.27 03:07:00 - [510]
 

Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Dienowthxbay
Playing since 2004, i saw a lot, this will probably kill not eve but playerbase :(
Take a look and u will feel being idiots playing RMT + CCP both making money...
Eve-news
info 1
info 2

If people are making 400bil a month like the guy claims in the first link then any sort of economic warfare becomes redundant and the game is simply broken for anyone playing alliances the way it was intended.

Certainly hope that's not true.


Warfare, especially 0.0 warfare involving anyone competent, has always been more about morale than finances anyways. One guy who can afford to lose expensive ship after expensive ship makes less impact than 100 who can fly whatever the standard fleet ship is on a regular basis in any case.


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