open All Channels
seplocked Warfare & Tactics
blankseplocked Inexperienced player's question: Active vs Buffer in solo
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

ILikeMarkets
Posted - 2010.12.04 02:44:00 - [1]
 

I am a sucker for a good active tank. My three favorite ships in the game, hands down, are the Maelstrom, Cyclone and Hyperion. But I notice that most people say buffer is the only way to go, and it got my thinking: does active tank have a place in PvP?

Second question: What T1 class ship (I'm too cheap to throw away T2s, which is basically what I'd be doing if I flew out in one) would to prefer if you were to suddenly decide to go out soloing?

My goal is to build a survivable solo or paired pvp ship (no more than 2 people). I have no inclination of the "the best". I get it- there is no best ship. That's grand, but there ARE ships and designs more suited to certain roles than others. Which is where my question comes in:

For solo or pair PvP, would suggest active tank or buffer? And, of your personal preference: what T1 ship would take out on such an endeavor?

As for background on my question: I want to do lowsec/0.0 prowling, basically. I enjoy flying around far more than waiting for PvP, and I log on at... unfortunate times of the day, leading to few roams being out while I'm on. So, I'd like to grab a buddy and just look for folks. I'd like some ideas on which way to go on my ship designs to maximize my survivability out there.

Flinchery
Posted - 2010.12.04 03:31:00 - [2]
 

Its usually buffer during fleet fighting small gangs and also solo frigates. Active tanks are good for soloing when your tank can't be broken by your target or you've finished with someone and don't have a station to repair in.

Honestly I've seen the hurricane do well in solo.

Hooligan Tool
Awww Diddums..
Posted - 2010.12.04 04:26:00 - [3]
 

You will likely do better with buffer/passive tank in PvP. Other options would be something like the dual-rep (or triple-rep) Myrmidon using dual cap boosters. You would need to keep cans full of booster charges in safe spots along your roam route to be truly effective though.

Rifter, Rupture, Hurricane.
Incursus or Tristan, Vexor, Myrmidon.
Punisher, Arbitrator, Harbinger.
Merlin, Blackbird or Caracal, Drake.

Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
Posted - 2010.12.04 11:31:00 - [4]
 

Active Tanking can work really well. There's a video in the 'My Eve' section with some excellent cyclone action but I can't remember the name of it.

Having said that you'll need 3 things:-
1, Funding. you must have strong combat boosters (blue pill/exile) and Navy cap boosters. You should have a good fit (light to moderate pimpage) and, if you can, a crystal set.

2, Character skills. Maxxed tanking (obviously) as well as booster, Thermodynamics and navigation skills.

3, Player skills. How well you manage heat buildup (inc. slot layout), cap useage and the battlespace around you. Don't Panic.

There's quite a few good dual rep dominix and megathron videos around as well to check out.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2010.12.04 12:27:00 - [5]
 

Assuming good tanking/cap skills, in a solo fight active tanking is almost always better IMO. Of course it has a lot to do with what you are fighting and what you are flying.

Syllein
Posted - 2010.12.04 15:11:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Syllein on 04/12/2010 16:03:12
Edited by: Syllein on 04/12/2010 15:12:01
Originally by: Tozmeister
Active Tanking can work really well. There's a video in the 'My Eve' section with some excellent cyclone action but I can't remember the name of it.


You may be talking about the "Force of Nature" vids by Violatohr. Check out FoN 2 for some particularly good use of a cyclone. Definitely using blue pills, and probably a crystal set. FoN 3 for some awesome Maelstrom tanking.

Originally by: Tozmeister
Having said that you'll need 3 things:-
1, Funding. you must have strong combat boosters (blue pill/exile) and Navy cap boosters. You should have a good fit (light to moderate pimpage) and, if you can, a crystal set.


Cyclone pimpage is largely a matter of choice. T2 fit with "pimp" being reserved for pills and crystals works just fine. You will lose a few, as long as you get your pod out the loss is minimal tbh.

Originally by: Tozmeister
2, Character skills. Maxxed tanking (obviously) as well as booster, Thermodynamics and navigation skills.

3, Player skills. How well you manage heat buildup (inc. slot layout), cap useage and the battlespace around you. Don't Panic.


QFT

Edit:For solo low sec, assuming you are only engaging solo or (very) small gangs I would say active is a great choice. As another poster mentioned, a supply of cap charges is essential. Consider spending a little time laying in a reasonable supply at stations/ cans in your area of operation.

As your opponents gang size increases (or in drop-happy systems) I'd generally go for speed+buffer for GTFO ability etc.

In null I'd definitely go speed/ buffer because you will get bubbled+blobbed and the ability to burn out fast is nice.

Personal favourite (active) tanks would be cyclone, maelstrom and booster Jag (yeah T2, but cheap enough). Generally I'd take a cyclone for cost effectiveness. And yes, I do use full crystal set and pills. Added benefit is the number of people who think the cyclone is crap, and will engage you where they might otherwise reconsider if you were in a hurricane/ slep etc.

Once you can afford it the slep is a nice choice for shield tank, or the "lol"sac for armour. Again the Sac tends to be underestimated by people due to " lol it's a sac", despite the fact it can be a deadly ship when used correctly.

Generally only complete idiots underestimate a slep, expect to have a curse dropped on you a lotCrying or Very sad

Cryocasm
Task Force A.S.T.E.R.O.I.D
Posted - 2010.12.04 15:30:00 - [7]
 

Buffer Tank all the way.

If T2's are a bit expensive, I'm sure the Trimarks won't cost too much.


Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
Posted - 2010.12.04 15:40:00 - [8]
 

Unless a ship has a bonus for active tank, I would almost always go with buffer.

ButtChugger
Posted - 2010.12.04 15:40:00 - [9]
 

Bro use a civ shield booster it's what teh pros doo.

Xolornem Srrpep
Posted - 2010.12.04 22:27:00 - [10]
 

People are silly. Gallente ships can mount active tank fits very effectively in PvP.

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2010.12.05 08:24:00 - [11]
 

I generally don't care for active tank in PvP as any decent neut ship will wtfpwn. You can't neut buffer. You can counter the neut with cap boosters. But that is another mid slot you could be using for something else, and they depend on charges that take up a crap-ton of cargo space, depending on what size you are using. Its yet another module you have to manage in combat on top of weapons, shield booster, prop mod, web, point, overheat...

Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation
Posted - 2010.12.05 09:28:00 - [12]
 

Active tanking is really good till it's not.

If it can comfortably soak up all or most of the DPS being thrown at you it's great.

As soon as it's being out DPS'd by much your spaceship will evaporate.

Nidhiesk
Posted - 2010.12.05 13:19:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Machiavelli's Nemesis
Unless a ship has a bonus for active tank, I would almost always go with buffer.


That sums up what you should do honestly. Also, what Xolornem Srrpep said too is right.
/thread

BuRniZZ
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.12.06 20:10:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Soldarius
Its yet another module you have to manage in combat on top of weapons, shield booster, prop mod, web, point, overheat...


And that's exactly what makes it fun, and what makes a standardbuffered drake incredibly boring to fly. Personal fav is the triplerepping myrm. Need to focus like crazy once the dps starts coming in.

NoLimit Soldier
Posted - 2010.12.06 20:37:00 - [15]
 

I can't speak for active armor but buffer tank is best for PVP period.

I have not found a ship besides the tengu that really benefits from the crystal set. Active tanking in general is just fail unless you are missioning or dumping ALOT of money into the fits. And part of this is caldari's ship fitting as well though (Try putting a XL booster + cap booster + point + mwd + neuts + torps on a raven)

And why the hell does it not stack correctly with the hawk? My shield rep goes up about 5-10 points with a crystal set in. It stacks correctly with the cyclone and maelstrom but no hawk. Bug maybe?


Go slaves or snakes or something more useful, skip out on crystals.


**I do fly an active tanked drake though, tanks about 400 while pushing out 500+ dps (can't get hams to fit) with a neut and point and mwd. In my tests I was able to beat battleships by sticking past 20km as I was able to tank the damage 1vs1 at that range.

Transient Drifter
Posted - 2010.12.06 23:32:00 - [16]
 

pardon the noob question here, but what defines active tanking?

to me, it seems like anything that has an active on and off cycle. IE - armor hardners, repairers

does that make passive only resistance plating and damage controls? or is it a combination of resist plates and armor plates?

Idicious Lightbane
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2010.12.07 01:15:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Idicious Lightbane on 07/12/2010 01:16:47
Originally by: Transient Drifter
pardon the noob question here, but what defines active tanking?

to me, it seems like anything that has an active on and off cycle. IE - armor hardners, repairers

does that make passive only resistance plating and damage controls? or is it a combination of resist plates and armor plates?


Active = Armor Rep/Shield booster with resist mods + damage control
Buffer = Armor plates/Shield extenders + Resists + damage control
Passive = Getting your shield recharge up to a point it can tank a good amount without a shield booster dew to natural regen, ofcourse you need resists skill and DC is generally also on it (really, there are very few reasons not to fit a DC on a pvp ship)

Ofc you have mixes of some buffer with active tank, no DC etc but that is the most commen breakdown.

Ira Black
Posted - 2010.12.08 10:53:00 - [18]
 

In solo engagements and a 1vs1 situatie, an active tank might work. As soon as you're flying in a gang I'd advise a buffertank. In most fights you'll get targetted by more than 1 ship (primaried). You'll need one hell of an active tank to survive even a few seconds. Since a buffertank won't keep you alive either, it has the advantage of keeping you alive longer.

There is an exception tho: Spider tanking. If your gang has a few pro's and the ships are properly setup, the primaried ship can withstand quite a beating. Takes some practise to effectively execute.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2010.12.08 11:59:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: foksieloy on 08/12/2010 11:59:53
Quite a few frigates and cruisers work well with an active tank in solo situations.

The point is to have a high slot empty to fit a NOS and feed your cap with.

Active tank is great if the enemies DPS is lower than your regeneration. If it is not, go buffer.

So if you intend to fight more than 2 or 3 opponents, go buffer.

Delarado
Posted - 2010.12.09 01:28:00 - [20]
 

1.buy a tengu
2.active tank with 2 hardners and an LSE
3.???
4. PROFIT!

Has like 70k ehp and tanks 550 dps when fitted right.

Active tank for solo though, if you can pick your fights (dont fight a curse in a zealot!). But as mentioned, if you meet a small fleet, you evaporate.

Hidden Snake
Caldari
Inglorious-Basterds
Posted - 2010.12.09 08:48:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Hidden Snake on 09/12/2010 08:50:42
there are some ships which are viable for active solo tank, but they are notoriously known for it, so you will get ganked. I think the only subcap ships I have seen doing it properly and efectively are these:

- tripple rep myrm (even dual reps hurts)
- Xlarge rep Mael (crystals recommended)
- Sleipnir (same as mael)
- Hyperion (huh the only guy using it properly is Val Erian i think)
- Rifter - standard cookie cutter
- Taranis - i fly them active tanked, but I have doubts about these line of setups


I know that cyclone has bonuses and Retrib can be bleed setup too, but they are just not good enough to face rest of the buffer crowd.

Lady Shaniqua
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.12.09 13:19:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Lady Shaniqua on 09/12/2010 15:52:02
Whether you prefer active or buffer doesn't matter so much both are effective in solo you just need to choose your tactics/targets accordingly.

Shield Buffer.
This tends to be a good choice for fast hit and run tactics as you arn't slowed by the penalties of armour rigs/plates, also having your tank mods in your midslots allows for more damage mods in the lows so you can take things down faster and nanos for GTFO. Shield buffer also suits deeper roams into 0.0 or hostile space as the buffer is regenerating meaning you don't need to dock and rep up or restock on cap boosters.
Not using cap for active tanking also leaves more free cap for neuting

Some T1 ships that are effective for solo /w shield buffers : Tempest, Hurricane, Rupture, Belicose, Drake, Ferox, Stabber, arbitrator.

Armour Buffer.
This very much suits getting stuck in and brawling. Compared to shield buffers, you potentially get less damage, less speed, and you need somewhere to dock and rep up between fights, what you gain is free midslots with all the glorious options free mids give you like more webs, scrams, td's. For short fights armour buffer offers you a whole heap of life bar and lets you absorb incoming high damage long enough to take your targets down. It's popular for solo because it accels in short brutal fights.

Some T1 ships that are effective for solo /w armour buffer: abbadon, armageddon, typhoon, tempest, megathron, dominix, harbinger, hurricane, rupture, thorax, maller, vexor, arbitrator, omen

Shield/Armour Active.
The main differences between shield and armour buffers apply here aswell. Shield ships can be faster with more damage mods and armour is slower with more ewar, shield gets the added advantage of being able to field crystals. Both are very effective at brawling outnumbered and holding the field, However active tanks are suceptable to heavy neuting and neuts are v.popular.

Some T1 ships that are effective for solo /w active:
Armour - Hyperion, Megathron, Dominix, Abaddon, Typhoon, Tempest, Myrmidon, Brutix, Arbitrator, Maller,

Shield - Maelstrom, Rokh, Raven, Scorpion, Cyclone, Ferox, Moa

Active/buffer hybrids.
This is how i'd define ships with active mods and some buffer i.e. plate + single rep, On above frig ships I think this mainly applies to armour as the regenerative nature of shields means your almost always better off increasing the buffer.The idea is to be able to be versatile, have some advantages of a plated ship but not get slowly bled to death and to take plated ships on deep roams without having to dock for reps. Or if your active tank is neuted you'll still have some buffer.

Frigates.
I haven't bothered mentioning frigates because they have alot of unique aspects to soloing in them.

Larton Dretta
Posted - 2010.12.09 16:04:00 - [23]
 

Find Violatohr's Force of Nature on Garmon's YouTube channel.

Whatever floats your boat, you can make it work.

Dante Cowboy
Posted - 2010.12.09 16:53:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Dante Cowboy on 09/12/2010 16:53:35
what about a solo incursus? i'm thinking DCU and plates?

carbomb
Super Team Munkey
Posted - 2010.12.10 13:41:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Tozmeister


Having said that you'll need 3 things:-
1, Funding. you must have strong combat boosters (blue pill/exile) and Navy cap boosters. You should have a good fit (light to moderate pimpage) and, if you can, a crystal set.

2, Character skills. Maxxed tanking (obviously) as well as booster, Thermodynamics and navigation skills.

3, Player skills. How well you manage heat buildup (inc. slot layout), cap useage and the battlespace around you. Don't Panic.


i totally agree with points 2 and 3. However, i dont agree that you need strong boosters or a pimp fit of any kind, nor do you need implants. Ofcourse they are nice and all but some of the fun can be lost from pvp if you go out in a ship thats already ahead of the game. There is something to be said about going into a fight where you are not expected to win. Boosters are nice and quite usefull at times but they can also hamper your tank if you get hit by the side effects. There is a skill book called nanite control, this will reduce the chances of side effects but it is pricey. I will add that Synth boosters, while they only give a 3% boost to your tank, they carry no side effects.

Check out vids like "PLAY TIME IV" and anything by Kil2, he uses low budget fits to great success. They are experienced pilots tho and experience counts for a hell of a lot in this game.

NoLimit Soldier
Posted - 2010.12.10 15:38:00 - [26]
 

Quote:
Shield - Maelstrom, Rokh, Raven, Scorpion, Cyclone, Ferox, Moa


Please link fits for the Raven/Scorpion/Ferox/Moa that are active shield tanked and don't get curbstomped toe to toe with anything else in their class.


-A full crystal active tanking pure caldari pvp specced person.

Morphus
Posted - 2010.12.11 04:32:00 - [27]
 

could someone post cyclone active tank pvp fit please?

Syllein
Posted - 2010.12.11 12:04:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Syllein on 11/12/2010 12:09:45
Originally by: Morphus
could someone post cyclone active tank pvp fit please?


[Cyclone]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Co-Processor II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Invulnerability Field II
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
Large Shield Booster II

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I


Valkyrie II x3
Warrior II x2


Basic starting point. Modify as you see fit. If you are bothered by frigs consider replacing HAMs with neuts etc.
There are other fits using XL boosters but I'm not that fond of them myself.

I fly this with a crystal set and pills. Not absolutely required, but nice to have :)
An added benefit of this setup....No other ship I've flown has taught me as much about cap management, Heat management and boost timing as this has. It's not easy by any means, but well worth the effort in my book.

Cheap and cheerful ftw. You will lose lots of these, but who cares?

Edit: Very tight on the fittings. you will need good fitting skills for this one.

Kesper North
Caldari
Gentlemen of Means
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.12.12 08:10:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Syllein
Edited by: Syllein on 11/12/2010 12:09:45
[Cyclone]



I usually fly Sleipnirs, but I'm feeling cheap, so I'm going to give this a try. I'm replacing the HAMs (which I can't use anyway) with two medium neuts and a small nos, and swapping the 425s for 220s instead.

Syllein
Posted - 2010.12.12 13:00:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Kesper North
Originally by: Syllein
Edited by: Syllein on 11/12/2010 12:09:45
[Cyclone]



I usually fly Sleipnirs, but I'm feeling cheap, so I'm going to give this a try. I'm replacing the HAMs (which I can't use anyway) with two medium neuts and a small nos, and swapping the 425s for 220s instead.


Love Sleipnirs, and would be the first to admit that going from sleps to cyclones will feel like a big step backwards, be prepared for that. However I do find that the clone gets more fights, and in my experience fewer blobs. Random solo'ists tend to avoid sleps and/ or call in friends (for some reason I always get "cursed" when flying a slep solo).

As to neuts, tried it; didn't like it. Personal choice tbh. Cap is in short supply on the clone, at least against anything that's making you tank hard. Useful for breaking tackle on small stuff though.

Slep for gang work every time.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only