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ToryAlexander
Gold Crown Industries
Posted - 2010.12.03 02:29:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: ToryAlexander on 03/12/2010 22:21:50
I paid an alliance named Snatch Victory 1 bil plus the wardec fee to kill this corporation named Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap for three weeks (Lonetrek invaded my corp and ransomed my full freighter, and earlier one of their members who was then not in Lonetrek invaded a different corp of and then declared war which basically gutted that corp).

I as ripped off because Snatch only fought them for one week, even though I paid them to fight them for three. It would be fine if Lonetrek's playstyle were inhibited and they had to dock up and not play, but they continued to kill people and (as one of them noted on this thread) even reinforced and took out a POS while Snatch was at war with them.

However, the war started out fine. All was going well for the first week or so.

Then, I noticed that Snatch Victory had taken a few losses (which is fine) but they also quit getting kills.

To encourage them to actually hunt Lonetrek, I located a small Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap gang myself camping a gate. I started a conversation with Niclas Solo, the guy I contacted to dec Lonetrek. Here's what he said:

ToryAlexander > hi
Niclas Solo > hey tory
ToryAlexander > I see a Lonetrek fleet camping the Jita gate in Sobaseki. Are you guys gonna take them out?
ToryAlexander > I noticed that you haven't killed Lonetrek in a few days. Is everything alright?
Niclas Solo > yeah but they wont come out and fight us. their too scared since we killed an ishtar a few days ago, but we have 13 guys ready now if they ever come out of their cave so dont u worry
ToryAlexander > Well, their fleet is here in Sobaseki right now.
ToryAlexander > Are you guys going to kill them?
Niclas Solo > no, not right now, we dont have the numbers and we dont want to take any unnecessary losses. plus they have loads of neutral logistics so it wont be a fair fight.
ToryAlexander > Seriously? I can give you ship types. They're in a Dramiel, two Cynabals, and a Hurricane.
Niclas Solo > Lonetrek salvage and scrap likes to do log in traps
ToryAlexander > So when will you fight them?
Niclas Solo > when we get around to it
ToryAlexander > Theres only four of them and you guys have 13 people. I paid you guys a billion ISK to fight them for three weeks and you only fought them for one.
Niclas Solo > were not perfect we have 6 other contracts up right now were chasing other people
ToryAlexander > Why not just come to Sobaseki and kill Lonetrek? I've told you where they are so you don't even have to look. And I paid you to fight them for three weeks.
Niclas Solo > i g2g cya

He then closed the convo but didn't log out for 15 minutes.

This is illustrative of the last two weeks of the contract. Lonetrek would be undocked and doing what they do while Snatch Victory wouldn't even try to stop them.

I don't think they intended to rip me off when they accepted the contract, but they're very unprofessional mercenaries who didn't complete the contract we agreed upon. I could see them failing and getting beaten but they didn't even try to kill Lonetrek after they lost a few ships to them.

I know Snatch has a good reputation but I have had a very bad experience with them. I do not recommend them to anybody. I have had a very bad experience with them and feel cheated out of a billion ISK.

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.03 02:34:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 03/12/2010 02:35:37
/Treads on Egg Shells.

IB4:

*He said She said
*Lonetrek Alt
*Epeen Wars
*Counter Dec Threats
*5 Page Thread
*Hate Spam
*Flames
*Hi Sec Wars are Lame
*HTFU
*Delt With
*Who Would Hire

Also First

Icas Otame
The Nintendo Generation
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2010.12.03 02:40:00 - [3]
 

In before the "NO CHAT LOGS FOR YOU!".

I shall look into this before making an actual post regarding it's validity.

Kickah
Posted - 2010.12.03 03:09:00 - [4]
 

grieving is a process

#1 Cool
we grieved raven feds,
and we got bored with them
2# Laughing
my friends deced raven fed, they also grief
#3 Very Happy
they hired you "help we getting grieved! oh nooooo"
we grief Snatch Victory ALLIANCE
31% success against 7active in corp with 2away
#4 YARRRR!!
we offer snatch mutual war and they accept we have 3weeks
with snatch sitting in logon traps all time LAWL
5# Twisted Evil
we join The Orphanage alliance to grief snatch victory some more +)

we like, no we love grief.
grief must be continued...


Griefly Your kickah o/

Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.03 03:14:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Kickah
grieving is a process

#1 Cool
we grieved raven feds,
and we got bored with them
2# Laughing
my friends deced raven fed, they also grief
#3 Very Happy
they hired you "help we getting grieved! oh nooooo"
we grief Snatch Victory ALLIANCE
31% success against 7active in corp with 2away
#4 YARRRR!!
we offer snatch mutual war and they accept we have 3weeks
with snatch sitting in logon traps all time LAWL
5# Twisted Evil
we join The Orphanage alliance to grief snatch victory some more +)

we like, no we love grief.
grief must be continued...


Griefly Your kickah o/

Good Greif

lag kills
Original Sin.
Underworld Excavators
Posted - 2010.12.03 03:28:00 - [6]
 

keep in mind they're also at war with the 0rphanage, which is based out of jita. going over to fight a few lonetrek would mean also dealing with an adopt blob, most likely.

The PitBoss
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.12.03 03:31:00 - [7]
 

A merc doesnt have to get kills to be effective in a war dec.


Just because you don't see mounds of corpses doesn't mean you got ripped off.

1) They can't make the enemy fight them ... what if the enemy docks up .. or logs

2) They can't make the enemy play the game ... what if they decide to avoid the war by playing their alts .. or not playing eve at all.


If you REALLY wanted to rack up the kills .. you should have negotiated a pay-per-kill contract Wink


What you purchased realistically is making the target change their play style ...



Snatch Victory would be one of the last Alliances to actually rip you off ..

PRO-TIP: BEFORE running to the forums crying foul .. you really should have tried contacting Icas Otame in game .. nothing like getting on merc's bad side ...


Lana Torrin
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.03 03:47:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Lana Torrin on 03/12/2010 03:46:53
Originally by: The PitBoss

PRO-TIP: BEFORE running to the forums crying foul .. you really should have tried contacting Icas Otame in game .. nothing like getting on merc's bad side ...



There is absolutely NO fun in trolling Snatch (or any other merc corp) by contacting them first and getting a perfectly reasonable explanation. To the forums first I say!

Kickah
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:02:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: lag kills
keep in mind they're also at war with the 0rphanage, which is based out of jita. going over to fight a few lonetrek would mean also dealing with an adopt blob, most likely.


lame excuses
"keep in mind the 0rphanage is has 12 other wars
and 2seconds into war you were in fleet with our war targets

cry me a river scared little girl ))))

Slimy Worm
The Skunkworks
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:08:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Slimy Worm on 03/12/2010 04:47:39
Originally by: The PitBoss
A merc doesnt have to get kills to be effective in a war dec.


Just because you don't see mounds of corpses doesn't mean you got ripped off.

1) They can't make the enemy fight them ... what if the enemy docks up .. or logs

2) They can't make the enemy play the game ... what if they decide to avoid the war by playing their alts .. or not playing eve at all.

If you REALLY wanted to rack up the kills .. you should have negotiated a pay-per-kill contract Wink

What you purchased realistically is making the target change their play style ...

Snatch Victory would be one of the last Alliances to actually rip you off ..

PRO-TIP: BEFORE running to the forums crying foul .. you really should have tried contacting Icas Otame in game .. nothing like getting on merc's bad side ...




We reinforced and took out a medium POS while Snatch was at war with us.

There was never once a single Snatch player in system with us while we were doing this, even though they were online both while it was being taken down and while it was being reinforced.

After we killed their Loki, Nighthawk, and Drake with our Curse, Ishtar, and Hurricane, Snatch rarely ever even made a half-hearted effort to kill us or change our playstyle. They killed one HAC once but that was the only other time they tried to kill us over the course of a few weeks.

The OP is right. Snatch quit fighting after they lost, and apparently violated their contract with the OP too.

Slutskyr
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:09:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Kickah
Originally by: lag kills
keep in mind they're also at war with the 0rphanage, which is based out of jita. going over to fight a few lonetrek would mean also dealing with an adopt blob, most likely.


lame excuses
"keep in mind the 0rphanage is has 12 other wars
and 2seconds into war you were in fleet with our war targets

cry me a river scared little girl ))))


The emo is strong in this one. Stay in school, kiddo.

Victoria Ehr
Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap
Posted - 2010.12.03 04:24:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Victoria Ehr on 03/12/2010 04:34:27
Originally by: The PitBoss
A merc doesnt have to get kills to be effective in a war dec.


Just because you don't see mounds of corpses doesn't mean you got ripped off.

1) They can't make the enemy fight them ... what if the enemy docks up .. or logs

2) They can't make the enemy play the game ... what if they decide to avoid the war by playing their alts .. or not playing eve at all.


If you REALLY wanted to rack up the kills .. you should have negotiated a pay-per-kill contract Wink


What you purchased realistically is making the target change their play style ...



Snatch Victory would be one of the last Alliances to actually rip you off ..

PRO-TIP: BEFORE running to the forums crying foul .. you really should have tried contacting Icas Otame in game .. nothing like getting on merc's bad side ...




i agree with ya on the sense that IF a corp does log or dock and not play its not possible to get kills thus resulting in a fail dec.. although that is the case we dont refuse to play the game when dec'd, we infact continue to hunt other targets whilst snatch runs around with there fingers up there a$$. that being said we HAVE docked up when seeing snatch coming with a 10+ gang when there is 3 of us in fleet (this being before the loki and other kills) <-- we have since not seen them actively "hunting" us.. but docking in the scenario previously mentioned is logic last time i checked. anyways. snatch lose. i win. end post

Corndog Sandwich
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.12.03 05:20:00 - [13]
 

hahahaha they infiltrated your corp and ransomed your freighter!! you sir are bad and deserve what you got! i mean **** its only a billion isk why dont you cry more Rolling Eyes

lonetrek salvage and scrap are pretty much the only decent empire dwelling corp out there

Icer Xx
Tempest Legion
Test Friends Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.12.03 07:32:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Corndog Sandwich
hahahaha they infiltrated your corp and ransomed your freighter!! you sir are bad and deserve what you got! i mean **** its only a billion isk why dont you cry more Rolling Eyes

lonetrek salvage and scrap are pretty much the only decent empire dwelling corp out there


Yeah, at least my alliance didn't lose a titan to PL And cry hacks.

Anyway, you're goonswarm, you know nothing of empire other than we swat bees.

Dian'h Might
Minmatar
Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated
Posted - 2010.12.03 07:47:00 - [15]
 

@ the OP: You hired the mercs to go fight for you because you (presumably) don't know how to. Don't expect to tell them where and when to fight. They're the experts, not you. Just sit back and let them do their job.

With that said, you're wasting your isk hiring mercs (especially ones in a big corp) to take on some griefers like that. I've been in several griefer vs merc wars, and in the end the mercs walked away with isk, the griefers walked away with tears, and the client corp walked away with nothing (and everyone in opposite directions usually).

Griefer corps usually excel at hit and run tactics, they pick their fights, and they won't engage unless they're pretty sure they'll win. In contrast, merc corps (especially big ones) are good for more static targets such as system denial, POS takedowns, or killing carebear/gankbear corps full of idiots (although in the case of carebears, a griefer corp could do a better job).

The dec generally turns into a US military vs terrorists style conflict. The mercs will almost always win in a fair fight (or even if they're slightly outnumbered), but the griefers will never let them have one. The more superior the merc corp is in conventional pvp (either in raw skill of sheer number of ships they can field), the more the griefer corp will start using metagaming with hit and fade tactics.

commander kosmo
Los Matadores
Ghost Syndicate.
Posted - 2010.12.03 08:05:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: commander kosmo on 03/12/2010 08:22:28
People pay mercs all the time to shoot down this or that for myriad reasons. Sometimes they get their monies worth and sometimes they dont. Almost always there's some forum post that either praises their performance or slams it followed by a litany of trolls, flames and tears from 3rd parties. This is the true merc trophic circle.

Unfortunately your post did nothing to convince the rabble that Snatch did anything wrong nor did it convince anyone Snatch is the best thing since sliced bread.

You tried to play too much the diplomat and came away sounding like Plankton.

Look, if they did you wrong you gotta call them out on it, if they didnt then well don't come out here to play. If you take all the hyperbole out of your post all I read is 'We paid Snatch' which of course is exactly what Snatch wants you to say.

If your gonna throw stones, don't toss them underhand, throw those bad boys with zeal and might. Tell us how you really feel, this fluffy funk will not do.

NereSky
Gallente
RETRIBUTIONS.
Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2010.12.03 08:29:00 - [17]
 

Absolutely nothing can be gained by discussing this 'contract' on the forums, if anything it will alienate most people against you imo.

You should have tried more diplomacy as a ex-merc with quite a lot of experience in the trade it can be difficult to gather forces at any particular time ie saying theres a camp 'right now' at X Y Z with X ships and types doesnt mean the Mercs will be,

Some of them might be at work, eating tea, dinner etc or otherwise not online.
I cannot comment on the targets nor my opinion of the mercs as tbh i dont know them and there is always 2 sides to every story.

However if one of my ex clients was totally disatisfied with services on-going then maybe a part refund could be negotiated but after posting on the public forums if it was me refunding id give you squat, sorry

Corndog Sandwich
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.12.03 08:50:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Icer Xx
Originally by: Corndog Sandwich
hahahaha they infiltrated your corp and ransomed your freighter!! you sir are bad and deserve what you got! i mean **** its only a billion isk why dont you cry more Rolling Eyes

lonetrek salvage and scrap are pretty much the only decent empire dwelling corp out there


Yeah, at least my alliance didn't lose a titan to PL And cry hacks.

Anyway, you're goonswarm, you know nothing of empire other than we swat bees.


ahahahah look at you

Ifly Uwalk
Caldari
Concentrated Evil
Posted - 2010.12.03 09:49:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: ****skyr
Originally by: Kickah
Originally by: lag kills
keep in mind they're also at war with the 0rphanage, which is based out of jita. going over to fight a few lonetrek would mean also dealing with an adopt blob, most likely.


lame excuses
"keep in mind the 0rphanage is has 12 other wars
and 2seconds into war you were in fleet with our war targets

cry me a river scared little girl ))))


The emo is strong in this one. Stay in school, kiddo.


u mad bro?

Also, +1 to kickah and crew! Smile


ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2010.12.03 09:50:00 - [20]
 

get in touch with me if your still looking for guys to hireWink

Niclas Solo
Amarr
Love n Peace
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2010.12.03 10:51:00 - [21]
 

ooh what have i done so i deserve made up logs? :D sure i got some hatemails before but this is my first forum post :) is it because of that merlin i killed the other day? anyway thank you slimy worm for taking your time to do this, it was fun :)

OneTimeAt BannedSpank
Amarr
Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
Posted - 2010.12.03 11:26:00 - [22]
 

Lonetrek salvage and crap are idiots.

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2010.12.03 14:25:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: ToryAlexander
I paid an alliance named Snatch Victory 1 bil plus the wardec fee to kill this corporation named Lonetrek Salvage and Scrap for three weeks (Lonetrek invaded my corp and ransomed my full freighter, and earlier one of their members who was then not in Lonetrek invaded a different corp of and then declared war which basically gutted that corp). ...


The whole point of hiring a merc unit is to achieve clearly defined goals. This way there is no ambiguity and no vagueness that clutters up the situation. What you did was set up a contract where there were really no clearly defined goals. And because of that now you're unhappy because SV, in your view, didn't achieve goals you really didn't set. Really what kind of goal is "kill ... for three weeks"?

Did they kill for three weeks? If so then contract fulfilled. If you wanted 50 enemy ships dead or a certain isk amount of ships destroyed/looted then that is what the contract should have been.

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2010.12.03 14:30:00 - [24]
 

Just make sure that next time, what you want them to do is clearly defined in the contract.

The Olive1
Legio Geminatus
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.12.03 15:45:00 - [25]
 

Cool another thread about Lonetrek *walks out of room*

Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.12.03 16:25:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: ToryAlexander
Niclas Solo > were not perfect we have 6 other contracts up right now were chasing other people


Tis why NMG. doesnt stack contracts very often, and never more than 2-3.

I didnt read this as they scammed you or ripped you off. You paid 1b isk for them to add a 7 man corp wardec on top of their FIVE other contracts. I dont know what you were expecting but I'm fairly certain it was unreasonable. You would have been better off doing pay-per-kill pricing against a target that small with mercs that busy, or at the very least offered a much smaller up sum.

So at worst you overpaid, and it wasnt anyone's fault but yours.

Toilarmius
Minmatar
Auxilia Enterprises
Posted - 2010.12.03 17:22:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Alara IonStorm
Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 03/12/2010 02:35:37
/Treads on Egg Shells.

IB4:

*He said She said
*Lonetrek Alt
*Epeen Wars
*Counter Dec Threats
*5 Page Thread
*Hate Spam
*Flames
*Hi Sec Wars are Lame
*HTFU
*Delt With
*Who Would Hire

Also First



Let's see how your checklist is holding up:

He said She said, CHECK
Lonetrek Alt CHECK
Epeen Wars CHECK
Counter Dec Threats MISSING
5 Page Thread MISSING
Hate Spam CHECK
Flames CHECK
Hi Sec Wars are Lame MISSING
HTFU MISSING
Delt With MISSING
Who Would Hire CHECK

Your list is 54.5% complete. I'll keep observing. Cool

Zeddicus Mallows
Posted - 2010.12.03 17:32:00 - [28]
 

Look how cute, Lonetrek needing more attention so they make up chat logs. Good thing nobody pays Lone much attention considering all the work we have currently and the backlog that we have for the future :).

El'Tar
Caldari
Genos Occidere
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.12.03 17:37:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: El''Tar on 03/12/2010 17:37:26

:highsec pvp:

NightmareX
Nomads
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.12.03 18:15:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: El'Tar
Edited by: El''Tar on 03/12/2010 17:37:26

:highsec pvp:

Still PVP.


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