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Michwich
Posted - 2010.12.02 11:34:00 - [1]
 

Id first off like to thank CCP for removing the Learning skills, it was a false choice.

So now that we can buy ISK via plex, would that be another false choice? Would you rather spend 1 hour working at your job and buying a 350million isk.. or would you rather spend a few days working in game to get the same amount?

It seems the most efficient choice would be to buy isk with real money, so why bother with grinding isk? Why give us that false option? Id like to see grinding isk removed from the game, ie you cannot make isk playing, it would get rid of the false option and lead people on the right path to buying isk.

What do you think?

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.12.02 11:35:00 - [2]
 

1st: :golfclap:
2nd: If anyone wanted to take this seriously they would simply point out that only nubs grind for or RMT for ISK in EVE

Kendon Riddick
Posted - 2010.12.02 11:37:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Michwich
Id first off like to thank CCP for removing the Learning skills, it was a false choice.

So now that we can buy ISK via plex, would that be another false choice? Would you rather spend 1 hour working at your job and buying a 350million isk.. or would you rather spend a few days working in game to get the same amount?

It seems the most efficient choice would be to buy isk with real money, so why bother with grinding isk? Why give us that false option? Id like to see grinding isk removed from the game, ie you cannot make isk playing, it would get rid of the false option and lead people on the right path to buying isk.

What do you think?


for busy professional people with a life that suck at games anyway its a good idea.

The poor and the jobless have the time to grind and or come up with "a brilliant cunning scheme" to make a bajillionty dollarz.

At the end of the day its an exchange rate of time and ingame and out of game money.

If it works for you, do it. There will be people who are 110% against buying isk and they will smack you for it, these tend to be the jelous, loney, single, jobless tards...

Forum Guy
Posted - 2010.12.02 11:38:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Michwich
Id first off like to thank CCP for removing the Learning skills, it was a false choice.

So now that we can buy ISK via plex, would that be another false choice? Would you rather spend 1 hour working at your job and buying a 350million isk.. or would you rather spend a few days working in game to get the same amount?

It seems the most efficient choice would be to buy isk with real money, so why bother with grinding isk? Why give us that false option? Id like to see grinding isk removed from the game, ie you cannot make isk playing, it would get rid of the false option and lead people on the right path to buying isk.

What do you think?


I think you are really just trolling.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.12.02 11:42:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Forum Guy
I think you are really just trolling.

No wai, that's unpossible!

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.02 11:50:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Michwich
What do you think?


I don't think anyone much cares what you have to say, that's what I think.

0/10

Michwich
Posted - 2010.12.02 11:58:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Michwich on 02/12/2010 12:00:00
Well I hear a lot of bitterness and anger... thats fair, some people had to spend their eve careers grinding isk, its unfortunate and all the reason to get rid of this option. Buying isk seems to be the correct choice, is it not? Anyone?

Takseen
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:04:00 - [8]
 

Are these threads going to stop after December 14th? They're really scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:08:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Takseen
Are these threads going to stop after December 14th?
They'll probably get worse.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:17:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Michwich

So now that we can buy ISK via plex, would that be another false choice? Would you rather spend 1 hour working at your job and buying a 350million isk.. or would you rather spend a few days working in game to get the same amount?



I have opted to consider you only ignorant and not a troll, so:

The isk you get selling a plex are already in the game economy, they aren't generate for you in exchange of your plex.

You aren't buying isk from CCP.
You are selling a plex to another player, through the in game market, getting paid in isk.

The difference is subtle but very real.

The other player has "grinded" in game for the isk (probably he is a trader and his grinding was nothing special, but that is another matter).

So grinding isk in game is not a "false option" as you claim. It is the way to inject isk and items in the game.




Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:17:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Takseen
Are these threads going to stop after December 14th?
They'll probably get worse.


I have hard time seeing what a worse Michwich thread would look like, since every Michwich thread I remember has been pretty horrible.

Michwich
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:19:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Michwich on 02/12/2010 12:19:38
Originally by: Kendon riddick
Originally by: Michwich
Id first off like to thank CCP for removing the Learning skills, it was a false choice.

So now that we can buy ISK via plex, would that be another false choice? Would you rather spend 1 hour working at your job and buying a 350million isk.. or would you rather spend a few days working in game to get the same amount?

It seems the most efficient choice would be to buy isk with real money, so why bother with grinding isk? Why give us that false option? Id like to see grinding isk removed from the game, ie you cannot make isk playing, it would get rid of the false option and lead people on the right path to buying isk.

What do you think?


for busy professional people with a life that suck at games anyway its a good idea.

The poor and the jobless have the time to grind and or come up with "a brilliant cunning scheme" to make a bajillionty dollarz.

At the end of the day its an exchange rate of time and ingame and out of game money.

If it works for you, do it. There will be people who are 110% against buying isk and they will smack you for it, these tend to be the jelous, loney, single, jobless tards...



I dont think anyones "poor" who plays this game, you can afford internet, a subscription and shelter, youre not poor, some might be intelligence defficient, meaning they think its a better deal grinding missions for 100 hours to make the same amount as someone who flips burgers for 2 hours. So why not help these people out, save them from themselves and help them earn more isk per hour by getting rid of isk grinding? The emotional side of me says this is wrong, but the rational side says its the right thing to do and in the end would benefit everybody, even those who think it doesnt.

Amateratsu
Caldari
The Pegasus Project
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:26:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Amateratsu on 02/12/2010 12:29:06
On the slim chance this is not a troll...

What you suggest would kill Eve for the majority of players.
Not everyone is wealthy enough to spend their hard earned cash on ingame currency.

If you take away the option to grind isk, then all those players will be screwed over and forced to quit, which would lead to the death of Eve as # of subs declines dramaticly.

10/10 for the worst idea i've read on these forumsVery Happy

Muul Udonii
Minmatar
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:34:00 - [14]
 

I don't think OP is a troll. I think OP just misunderstands where ISK for PLEX come from.

Personally, I like that there's a load of people willing to spend hours shooting at red crosses, scamming people, mining and even macroing. These are the guys who but PLEX.

I prefer to PVP and have a good job. So if I work for 1 hour I can earn 350mil. If I play EVE for 1 hour, I wouldn't earn the same thing, and would run the (albeit very small) risk of hotdrops, AFK cloakers, roaming gangs, or even tricky spawns killing my ships. Plus it costs ammo.

So for me, yes buying ISK is a much beter plan, especially while a PLEX is such high price.

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:41:00 - [15]
 

I like it than some guy with more money than sense can work all day to provide me with pixels

Commander Criton
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:42:00 - [16]
 

The choice to earn isk through in game means is there or the choice to purchase plex and sell it on is also a choice (one create by ccp to stop chinese macro miners selling isk on ebay) why do you consider this a false choice I don't understand when I was not working I had time to make ISK and still do if I wanted but now I purchase and sell plex now instead but that's my choice.

KaarBaak
Minmatar
Seatec Astronomy
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:51:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Michwich

So now that we can buy ISK via plex, would that be another false choice? Would you rather spend 1 hour working at your job and buying a 350million isk.. or would you rather spend a few days working in game to get the same amount?



I have opted to consider you only ignorant and not a troll, so:

The isk you get selling a plex are already in the game economy, they aren't generate for you in exchange of your plex.

You aren't buying isk from CCP.
You are selling a plex to another player, through the in game market, getting paid in isk.

The difference is subtle but very real.

The other player has "grinded" in game for the isk (probably he is a trader and his grinding was nothing special, but that is another matter).

So grinding isk in game is not a "false option" as you claim. It is the way to inject isk and items in the game.



This. Put more simply...if some poor schlub didn't grind isk, there'd be nobody to purchase your PLEX.

KB

Dacril
Posted - 2010.12.02 13:01:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Michwich
Id first off like to thank CCP for removing the Learning skills, it was a false choice.

So now that we can buy ISK via plex, would that be another false choice? Would you rather spend 1 hour working at your job and buying a 350million isk.. or would you rather spend a few days working in game to get the same amount?

It seems the most efficient choice would be to buy isk with real money, so why bother with grinding isk? Why give us that false option? Id like to see grinding isk removed from the game, ie you cannot make isk playing, it would get rid of the false option and lead people on the right path to buying isk.

What do you think?


Assuming you are not a troll...

You forget what games are about. The day I start thinking about a game in terms of pure efficiency, hence the day I think it's better to buy plexes than "grind" for it, as you say, is the day I stop playing. And if you think that games should be played the way we deal with our lifes, that is to maximize a return on our investment, games will be dead. Why more rational actions when economy pumps it down our throat every now and then?

It is interesting you refer to the very reason people tend to play games as a "false choice" (hence my suspicion you are trolling). The false choice is the very thing allowing people to forget they are playing to pay. It is an illusion, agreed. However, illusions have meaning too, and they are important (as in not bad).

So, my question is : do you really want to play a game where you can reduce it to your earning wage, breaking every bit of distanciation from your real life? Or, would you rather agree that buying isk in the first place is what plagues us all in terms of the precious illusion lost?

oolk
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.12.02 13:08:00 - [19]
 

I'm all for it,by all means,''buy'' isk and remove grinding but at 1 condition:

You got to go fetch it elsewhere then in your station and you got to fly back 20 jumps to put it in your wallet in a specific station randomly generated by the ''bank''.

That way,we can all ''profit'' from it.

YARRRR!!

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.02 13:30:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Michwich

What do you think?



I think people should do what they think is fun for them. Don't care about space bucks and prefer plex? go for it. I for one like making space bucks. ISK is points from my perspective, if I buy points, I might as well open the console and type @set me=godmode and become instantly bored.

Jovialmadness
Posted - 2010.12.02 13:40:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Takseen
Are these threads going to stop after December 14th? They're really scraping the bottom of the barrel at this point.


Agreed.

I cant even bring myself to stealth troll them they are getting so bad. No doubt these people need to just quit eve or stop posting. No i wont take my own advice.

Serpent Kamri
Posted - 2010.12.02 14:01:00 - [22]
 

Yes, what everyone should do is start selling PLEX cards. Immediately. At least 3 a month.

*misses good old 150 million ISK 30 day GTCs*

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.12.02 14:02:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
only nubs grind for or RMT for ISK in EVE

Sssssh, don't give them ideas of non-grinding, or else we won't be able to milk them so thoroughly and easily...
...aww, who am I kidding, there'd be plenty left even if everybody that reads the forum tried not to Twisted Evil

YoRiKoJi
Posted - 2010.12.02 14:07:00 - [24]
 

Big mistake but I'll bite on this one.

I see the issue as this:

Do I grind to make isk so I can play/afford items in game or do I buy isk so I can play the game and enjoy it sooner?

I have a job I 'work' at in RL so the last thing I want to do is spend my 'play' time working. I prefer to have fun in my 'play' time so I didn't grind for my isk. Call me whatever you like since I stand by my decision but there are going to be those die-hards who will call you a carebear, WOW playing, etc. etc. because you didn't tough it out.

I can tell you this much about eve from my experience... it's much more fun when you can play and not work. I have given out over 100 million isk to corpmates (plus over 50 mil to the corp) which I couldn't have done otherwise. I can buy anything I need to have fun playing Eve rather than 'working' to afford those items. Am I cheating... nope since Eve is a sandbox and I don't want to labor bringing in my own sand. ;)


yep, this is 2nd toon on my alt account. :p

Takseen
Posted - 2010.12.02 15:10:00 - [25]
 

I kinda feel sorry for pvpers then, if their only choices are spending (more) real life cash to play the game the way they like it, or doing stuff they *don't* like(PvE) to get the ISK they need. While carebears like myself do stuff they enjoy anyway, and get the option to pay for free into the bargain.

Or maybe not all pvpers see it that way?

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.02 15:17:00 - [26]
 

3rd Choice: PvP in RL.


Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.02 15:36:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Michwich
Edited by: Michwich on 02/12/2010 12:00:00
Well I hear a lot of bitterness and anger... thats fair, some people had to spend their eve careers grinding isk, its unfortunate and all the reason to get rid of this option. Buying isk seems to be the correct choice, is it not? Anyone?


You're a ****ing troll, and a bad one at that.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.12.02 16:21:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Crumplecorn
only nubs grind for or RMT for ISK in EVE

Sssssh, don't give them ideas of non-grinding, or else we won't be able to milk them so thoroughly and easily...
...aww, who am I kidding, there'd be plenty left even if everybody that reads the forum tried not to Twisted Evil


Someone has to grind the isk since the only ways that isk is actually created is through mission rewards and bounties (and to a much lesser extent nowadays, insurance) If everyone tried making their isk in other ways the value of isk would increase encouraging more to "grind".

Remember that every isk you trade or scam for some poor schlep somewhere probably created by shooting at red crosses.

Myself I sell GTCs for the most part. I supplement this with a little trade income and occasionally missioning when I just feel like shooting some bad guys in a low stress environment.

Sure I could probably work out how to make income through the game but between a job, a long commute, a couple small children and a wife I'd rather be able to log in and blow some stuff up rather than managing market orders or supply/production chains or mining or plexing/ratting.

But honestly my job is spent building and analyzing reports so the last thing I feel like doing at the end of the day is loading up Excel to play a video game.

So I pay for the people who do those sorts of ISK accumulating activities to play in exchange I get ISK that I can use to play the way I enjoy (buying ships and modules to blow up/get blown up by others).

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.12.02 16:27:00 - [29]
 

If it takes you a couple of days to afford a PLEX you are either:

A) Very new to the game which is understandable
B) Spending a lot of ISK on PVP, which is also understandable
C) Doing it wrong.

Kendon Riddick
Posted - 2010.12.02 16:28:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore

But honestly my job is spent building and analyzing reports so the last thing I feel like doing at the end of the day is loading up Excel to play a video game.

So I pay for the people who do those sorts of ISK accumulating activities to play in exchange I get ISK that I can use to play the way I enjoy (buying ships and modules to blow up/get blown up by others).


this fits perfectly with my attitude towards it, and there will be some that agree and some that "play for free" hate on us for it. which is why i call them jelous douche bags, 15 bucks a month is nothing and so is another 35 for a months worth of grind free 'splosions.

playing for free, reminds me of the miners who get free ships.... same stuff lol


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