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Serene Python
Posted - 2010.12.02 01:13:00 - [1]
 

Not looking for corps that say "Buy X items low and then relist" I'm more gearing towards, how many corps out there are more there just for single char traders and have offices setup near/at major trading hubs so a person can just death jump from hub to hub to do trading all on one char?

My friend has a corp all to his lonesome so we thought we might make something like this if it doesn't exist. Does this kind of thing even appeal to any traders other than myself and my friend?

Cesar Menage
MenageTech
Posted - 2010.12.02 01:38:00 - [2]
 

We at MenageTech LLC. (MTEC.)
Have been doing that for a while now also.
the three of us live in and work out of our mobile offices just being nomads looking for a buck here and there

also have main trader that uses his 4 JC to jump her and there for profit Cool

Serene Python
Posted - 2010.12.02 04:38:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Cesar Menage
We at MenageTech LLC. (MTEC.)
Have been doing that for a while now also.
the three of us live in and work out of our mobile offices just being nomads looking for a buck here and there

also have main trader that uses his 4 JC to jump her and there for profit Cool

I wasn't refering to using jump clones. I have in mind actually self destructing several times a day while changing your clone station to a corp office in another region(near or at a trading hub). That way you can do station trading, quickly check prices in another region, or just go down to that region quickly and easily for the price of a clone. If the character is made just for trading there might not even been a need to re-upgrade clones cause of the minimal skillpoints

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2010.12.02 05:40:00 - [4]
 

That's one of the more ridiculous ideas I've ever heard of.

Suiciding to jump from hub to hub quickly? Can you do it at all? Are there medical facilities in each hub? Why would you bother?

If you've got a trading empire worth the name that requires you to monitor and adjust trades in multiple hubs then you can easily afford the plex to maintain multiple accounts. Then you can simply run multiple clients simultaneously and do the trading and price checking all at once.

And if your situation is where you cannot afford the plex to fund multiple accounts then this issue would never actually be an issue.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.02 07:49:00 - [5]
 

There's plenty of web sites out there with prices, no need to do all that clone jumping around.

And yes, there are many small corps that are just one or two traders, mine for one. If you had a corp with someone in each hub, you cuold have your own little price check group, do deals with one another.

If you had people you trusted, you could set up a sort of hawalah type deal for agreed upon things and send huge quantities of goods across the map in seconds.

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2010.12.02 07:55:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
If you had people you trusted, you could set up a sort of hawalah type deal for agreed upon things and send huge quantities of goods across the map in seconds.

That's one of the things I really would like to see in EVE (although I was more thinking of Nathan Rothschild's gold trading business than hawalah Wink - but in principle the hawalah network seems to work the same way)

Eunson
MenageTech
Posted - 2010.12.02 08:23:00 - [7]
 

Na we dont kill each other we use alts and websites with a few other things to help us make isk

Also all Chars are me but I use us. since I RP with each one I use. lolRazz

Serene Python
Posted - 2010.12.02 12:57:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Adunh Slavy
There's plenty of web sites out there with prices, no need to do all that clone jumping around.

And yes, there are many small corps that are just one or two traders, mine for one. If you had a corp with someone in each hub, you cuold have your own little price check group, do deals with one another.

If you had people you trusted, you could set up a sort of hawalah type deal for agreed upon things and send huge quantities of goods across the map in seconds.


Well I know of the eve market websites. But you can't update orders in another region, which is what I have in mind. I could easily ask other people/check websites for the prices but can't actually update.

Originally by: Zeta Zhul
That's one of the more ridiculous ideas I've ever heard of.

Suiciding to jump from hub to hub quickly? Can you do it at all? Are there medical facilities in each hub? Why would you bother?

If you've got a trading empire worth the name that requires you to monitor and adjust trades in multiple hubs then you can easily afford the plex to maintain multiple accounts. Then you can simply run multiple clients simultaneously and do the trading and price checking all at once.

And if your situation is where you cannot afford the plex to fund multiple accounts then this issue would never actually be an issue.


... In my head death jumping for free costs less than 370m (and rising) plex. I don't know about you but I enjoy earning isk and not wasting it and my time having to relog and waste character slots/isk for something that'd be easier.

My logic must be screwy because I think it's cheaper to just death clone jump around empire than to spend 370 million extra isk a month.

I'll get my friend to fly around to each trade hub over the next few weeks since it seems there aren't many corps that actually do this. If some one wants to explain to me how wasting an extra 370 million isk makes sense I'm open minded... Maybe I'm doing math wrong here where free + self destruct time is > 370 million isk + relogging 4 separate times

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.12.02 13:13:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 02/12/2010 13:15:27
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton

That's one of the things I really would like to see in EVE (although I was more thinking of Nathan Rothschild's gold trading business than hawalah Wink - but in principle the hawalah network seems to work the same way)




I think it would work as a service for non traders, for those that need bulk transport of common items. To make it not a financial hole for the dealer, the final cost to the customer would need to be based on the sell price at the origin, or the buy price at the destination, which ever is higher. This of course kills all the margin gains generated by traditional transportation, but keeps the working capital of the "hawalah dealer" safe.

Certainly would be a way to move a few billion trit from Rens to Jita in less than five minutes, and at 1% commission, not a bad bit of work.

Punker Adagear
Posted - 2010.12.02 13:27:00 - [10]
 

take a look at eve central

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2010.12.02 13:49:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Serene Python
Not looking for corps that say "Buy X items low and then relist" I'm more gearing towards, how many corps out there are more there just for single char traders and have offices setup near/at major trading hubs so a person can just death jump from hub to hub to do trading all on one char?

My friend has a corp all to his lonesome so we thought we might make something like this if it doesn't exist. Does this kind of thing even appeal to any traders other than myself and my friend?


There's a reason why trading corps don't exist. Trading is a solo profession by nature

Estimated Prophet
Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe and Trading Company
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2010.12.02 14:04:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Serene Python

... In my head death jumping for free costs less than 370m (and rising) plex. I don't know about you but I enjoy earning isk and not wasting it and my time having to relog and waste character slots/isk for something that'd be easier.



Free? You do realise the dying with an insufficient clone means you lose skill points? If you max trade skills, and don't train any others, and pod-jump only 4 times a day, that's 60 million a month. Then there's the cost of renting offices: anywhere from 10 thousand to 100 million per month, and the cheap ones aren't usually close to the trade hubs.

Nikolai Kondratiev
Sphere Design Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.02 14:26:00 - [13]
 

Trading corps would probably be a more common thing if there was a way to have common market orders (and not just personnal orders that show in a corp list and use corp wallet)

Also it's not really the kind of thing you want to do with anything else than real friends, since every trader more or less needs access to "everything" to be able to do his work.

PinkFish
Posted - 2010.12.02 16:31:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: PinkFish on 02/12/2010 16:32:42
Originally by: Nikolai Kondratiev
Trading corps would probably be a more common thing if there was a way to have common market orders (and not just personnal orders that show in a corp list and use corp wallet)

Also it's not really the kind of thing you want to do with anything else than real friends, since every trader more or less needs access to "everything" to be able to do his work.


The implied requirement of trust in statement two is the real problem.

Trading corps are only useful if you have a group you really trust to work with. The primary function of a trading corp is to provide corp hangars in hubs. However, it's extremely rare for a group of people who are interested in trading to have that kind of trust. That rareness is good because it keeps hub offices relatively affordable. (Jita offices hover below 1b/mo. If many people knew how to take advantage of a corp hangar it would probably be double that.)

Fred Barbossa
Free Mineral Collective
Posted - 2010.12.02 17:35:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: PinkFish
Edited by: PinkFish on 02/12/2010 16:32:42
The primary function of a trading corp is to provide corp hangars in hubs. However, it's extremely rare for a group of people who are interested in trading to have that kind of trust. That rareness is good because it keeps hub offices relatively affordable. (Jita offices hover below 1b/mo. If many people knew how to take advantage of a corp hangar it would probably be double that.)


A big thing about "corp hangars being the only benefit" is all other benefits are things that are very much possible to accomplish simply by having people on your friends list. Even if you have a chain of friends who collaborate on manufacturing, hauling, and not competing with each others orders pos's and hangars are the only real place where a corporation would be useful.

Oh yeah and how you divide profits/define the price you change each other can be hell without having faith in each other.

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2010.12.02 21:20:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Serene Python
... In my head death jumping for free costs less than 370m (and rising) plex. I don't know about you but I enjoy earning isk and not wasting it and my time having to relog and waste character slots/isk for something that'd be easier.

My logic must be screwy because I think it's cheaper to just death clone jump around empire than to spend 370 million extra isk a month.

I'll get my friend to fly around to each trade hub over the next few weeks since it seems there aren't many corps that actually do this. If some one wants to explain to me how wasting an extra 370 million isk makes sense I'm open minded... Maybe I'm doing math wrong here where free + self destruct time is > 370 million isk + relogging 4 separate times


Only one of many problems with this approach is that you can only have 1 medical clone at any particular time and that medical clone can only be in one place.

You cannot die into a jump clone.

As for 370mil schtick. Trading isn't that hard. What it mostly takes is knowledge of how to use a spreadsheet and taking the time and effort to do some market/data analysis.

Saidin Thor
Posted - 2010.12.02 21:34:00 - [17]
 

Assuming you have a non-trivial amount of skillpoints, you have to update your clone every time you jump, which costs money.

Abdiel Kavash
Caldari
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.12.02 21:38:00 - [18]
 

I'm laughing so hard at people without a clue what clone (death) jumping is.

You can move your medical clone at any time to a station of your chosing, from ones your corp has an office in, and all those you have ever had a medical clone installed in your life. Therefore a corp is not needed. The fee is negligible (5k?).

The cost of a new clone, even for a maxed out trader char, is in the low milions of ISK. Even if you pod yourself several times over, if you can't make 20 or 30m a day, you really shouldn't be trading in multiple hubs.

Having an office/clone/medical facilities in the hub itself is irrelevant; all the trading can be done from many systems away via remote skills. I know updating the orders gets more irritating as the hub itself is no longer at the top of the order list, but it is easily doable. I believe most of the hubs have medical anyway - a hub simply wouldn't form in a station with inadequate services.

Having several alts (even trial chars) allows one to compare prices between two regions easily. Eve-central and eve-metrics depend solely on player submissions, and therefore contain outdated, faulty, even downright fake data. They are useless for anything but a quick glance at the price of popular items ("what can I buy a Drake for in Jita nowadays?").

Last hint I'm giving for free, related to the last part: "you can't run a trial alt and your main at the same time" is utter nonsense. Copy your entire EVE folder to another location, run your main from one and your alt from another.

Serene Python
Posted - 2010.12.03 01:40:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash
I'm laughing so hard at people without a clue what clone (death) jumping is.

You can move your medical clone at any time to a station of your chosing, from ones your corp has an office in, and all those you have ever had a medical clone installed in your life. Therefore a corp is not needed. The fee is negligible (5k?).

The cost of a new clone, even for a maxed out trader char, is in the low milions of ISK. Even if you pod yourself several times over, if you can't make 20 or 30m a day, you really shouldn't be trading in multiple hubs.

Having an office/clone/medical facilities in the hub itself is irrelevant; all the trading can be done from many systems away via remote skills. I know updating the orders gets more irritating as the hub itself is no longer at the top of the order list, but it is easily doable. I believe most of the hubs have medical anyway - a hub simply wouldn't form in a station with inadequate services.

Having several alts (even trial chars) allows one to compare prices between two regions easily. Eve-central and eve-metrics depend solely on player submissions, and therefore contain outdated, faulty, even downright fake data. They are useless for anything but a quick glance at the price of popular items ("what can I buy a Drake for in Jita nowadays?").

Last hint I'm giving for free, related to the last part: "you can't run a trial alt and your main at the same time" is utter nonsense. Copy your entire EVE folder to another location, run your main from one and your alt from another.


Finally some one who got what I meant(I think). I've got < 900K skill points so there's no need to worry about clone fees, and within 40 jumps of a trade hub there are stations that're very cheap to rent per month. I'd rather pay 40m a month in station fees and/or clone fees than wasting 370 on a PLEX.I do recall reading in several trading tutorials "0.01 saved is 0.01 isk earned" or many variations of that.

To the concern of trading being a solo profession, that's 100% right for the most part, but a corp could be used to make offices around empire. I'm sure some mission corps do this as well. My corp when we moved to null sec setup an office down there so people could death clone down if they didn't/couldn't fly down.

Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.03 09:57:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Abdiel Kavash

Last hint I'm giving for free, related to the last part: "you can't run a trial alt and your main at the same time" is utter nonsense. Copy your entire EVE folder to another location, run your main from one and your alt from another.


Update to that, you don't even need to copy the folder: Junction Directories (aka simlinks) in Windows. A bit more involved to setup, yes, but I've only had to do that once. Cool

So far the only (major) issue I've had is the earlier round of 'mini-patches,' and its funny un-install behavior when you said 'no' to them. They appear to have fixed that. I run all my TQ instances off Junctions, not the main EvE install.

-----

Regarding the OP: I suggest seeing if TACTP is still active (look up the ticker). Good folks, and one of them was a semi-regular to the forums.

Also, I used to see ads for 'Traders Academy' when fiddling in Derelik/Heimatar (from your corp window). That was before I got word of them being scammed, so YMMV there.

Serene Python
Posted - 2010.12.03 21:00:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Alain Kinsella
Originally by: Abdiel Kavash

Last hint I'm giving for free, related to the last part: "you can't run a trial alt and your main at the same time" is utter nonsense. Copy your entire EVE folder to another location, run your main from one and your alt from another.


Update to that, you don't even need to copy the folder: Junction Directories (aka simlinks) in Windows. A bit more involved to setup, yes, but I've only had to do that once. Cool

So far the only (major) issue I've had is the earlier round of 'mini-patches,' and its funny un-install behavior when you said 'no' to them. They appear to have fixed that. I run all my TQ instances off Junctions, not the main EvE install.

-----

Regarding the OP: I suggest seeing if TACTP is still active (look up the ticker). Good folks, and one of them was a semi-regular to the forums.

Also, I used to see ads for 'Traders Academy' when fiddling in Derelik/Heimatar (from your corp window). That was before I got word of them being scammed, so YMMV there.



Thanks for the corps. I couldn't find "Traders academy" and I'm assumign since TACTPs website is no longer around that they're inactive. Guess I'll join my friends corp for the offices.

Jasper Grimpkin
Trader's Academy
Posted - 2010.12.05 02:23:00 - [22]
 

Still around, still trading.

Serene Python
Posted - 2010.12.05 22:42:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Jasper Grimpkin
Still around, still trading.

That ****ing '.... Do you guys got offices with medical bays near the 4 trade hubs?

Jasper Grimpkin
Trader's Academy
Posted - 2010.12.06 08:25:00 - [24]
 

at the moment we tend to keep to one or two stations, most of our lone traders have their own little hubs they like to play around in. It's hard enough shepherding new traders without them zooming all over the universe :)

Tempted to give the multiple station thing a try though as it's a fun idea. Would you want stations actually in/very close to the hubs or would just something in the region do?

Serene Python
Posted - 2010.12.08 00:13:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jasper Grimpkin
at the moment we tend to keep to one or two stations, most of our lone traders have their own little hubs they like to play around in. It's hard enough shepherding new traders without them zooming all over the universe :)

Tempted to give the multiple station thing a try though as it's a fun idea. Would you want stations actually in/very close to the hubs or would just something in the region do?


Well within 5-10 jumps so if needed for other people they could skill up in a less than a day.


 

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