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Bolsak
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:27:00 - [1]
 

Iím not 100% sure I like the way the skill system works. There is no benefit to log into the game while training skills. I donít get stronger for killing rats; but I do gain faction for flying missions. I would think that there would be some kind of matrix that would allow trickle down for people that actually play. Some formula that would allow weapon skills to advance while rat hunting or industry skills to go up while mining or basic ship skills to go up while flying from point to point whether itís to pick up an item or running a courier mission.

What are the incentives to log in verse passively train skill? I can kill rats for meager earnings, run missions for some ISK or mine to try and make some cash. Yes, I know about Loyalty Points for doing missions and dog tags from rat huntingÖ But what makes me stronger by playing? Iím not asking about richer!

Rodriqu
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:30:00 - [2]
 

experience and skill, knowledge of the game, developing personal contacts. none of these are measured with numbers or points and can only be gotten with time playing the game, and in this game skill points have nothing to do with how well you can actually play the game

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:36:00 - [3]
 

If its incentives you want, just play wow.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:36:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Bolsak
There is no benefit to log into the game while training skills.
More or less what Rodriqu said, but I'd phrase it a bit differentlyÖ

You've got it the wrong way around: there's no benefit to the skills unless you log into the game ó all you'll end up with is a bunch of SP and no way, no need, and no knowledge of how to use them.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:39:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 01/12/2010 14:42:06
Originally by: Bolsak
What are the incentives to log in verse passively train skill?

To USE the skills you have.
Skills are merely the means to an end, not the end itself. And "the end" is different for almost everybody, and different during a character's lifetime and so on and so forth.
Originally by: Bolsak
But what makes me stronger by playing? Iím not asking about richer!

Richer IS stronger in EVE.
You can purchase a high-SP char with ISK any time you want (provided you have enough of them), there's plenty of them (high-SP characters) for sale at any given time.
In EVE, power revolves around ISK and vice-versa. Not the same, but to a limited degree interchangeable.
The rest is player experience (as opposed to character SP). And that you only get by actively playing.

Sporked
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:42:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Bolsak
There is no benefit to log into the game while training skills.
More or less what Rodriqu said, but I'd phrase it a bit differentlyÖ

You've got it the wrong way around: there's no benefit to the skills unless you log into the game ó all you'll end up with is a bunch of SP and no way, no need, and no knowledge of how to use them.


This. /thread.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:43:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Jint Hikaru on 01/12/2010 14:44:13
The skill system is unlike any other game. And I love it for that reason.

There are a whole plethora of games out there to choose from if you want to kill monsters over and over for 18hours a day to progress.

It seems that Eve may not be the game for you. Good luck in your search for a game that you enjoy!


Edit - TIPPIA, well said, +1 Internets to you!

TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:43:00 - [8]
 

Eve Onlines skilling system is the best thing about it. I don't want to kill a thousand rats to skill up in blasters, I want to be shoot people, I want to be going out with friends, I want to do my college course.

Being logged in lets to gain knowledge of the game personally, lets you earn isk and heaven forbid have fun. Surely that is enough?

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:46:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Bolsak
Iím not 100% sure I like the way the skill system works. There is no benefit to log into the game while training skills. I donít get stronger for killing rats; but I do gain faction for flying missions. I would think that there would be some kind of matrix that would allow trickle down for people that actually play. Some formula that would allow weapon skills to advance while rat hunting or industry skills to go up while mining or basic ship skills to go up while flying from point to point whether itís to pick up an item or running a courier mission.

What are the incentives to log in verse passively train skill? I can kill rats for meager earnings, run missions for some ISK or mine to try and make some cash. Yes, I know about Loyalty Points for doing missions and dog tags from rat huntingÖ But what makes me stronger by playing? Iím not asking about richer!



Please stop and think about what you are saying.

The incentive to play the game is... TO HAVE FUN! Why do you play ANY game?

Now consider this, UNLIKE grind games, there is NO PENALTY for NOT playing 20 hours a day! You can play as much or as little as you like and still benefit! No feeling like "OMG I am behind on the leveling curve because I had to go visit grandma in prison last weekend!"

This is the tragedy of our times, where people actually have come to believe that the point of playing games is to fill bars, accumulate points, etc and that actually having a good time is incidental.

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:47:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Richer IS stronger in EVE.



no no no
If your aim is regional or economic control them maybe, but no amount of ISK can teach you how to play.

annab
Amarr
Dromedaworks inc
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:51:00 - [11]
 

Think of it in a different way. On most games that give xp for killing stuff most don't give xp when your at work or sleeping. So the amount of xp is properly more on the current system. Unless your one of those plays who play games 24/3 and die from lack of sleep. Twisted Evil

The main incentives to log in for me.

1. makes use of game time I've paid for.
2. I talk to my corp and have a good time.
3. Do sites while trying to avoid pirates.

Basically contacts, money, fun.

I wouldn't pay to watch a timer tick down.

Bolsak
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:56:00 - [12]
 

Maybe I should clarify some things. Iím tired of everyone telling people to go back to WOW if you donít like this or that about any game! I donít play WOW. Iíve played EVE on and off since Beta. Iíve had friends come and go, corporations formed and disbanded. Iíve PVPíd back in the days of mOo. Iíve seen skill changes from flying 10 drones with just the advanced drone interfacing maxed to having to train 27 different skills to get 5 drones flying proficientlyÖ

The only constant for me or people that I've played with is that I/we keep leaving the game.

Diesel47
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:56:00 - [13]
 

I play to have fun, not to make my character train faster.

That is the point of the game, to have fun. If you can't do that then go play WOW.

Norian Lonark
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:00:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Bernard Schuyler


Please stop and think about what you are saying.

The incentive to play the game is... TO HAVE FUN! Why do you play ANY game?

Now consider this, UNLIKE grind games, there is NO PENALTY for NOT playing 20 hours a day! You can play as much or as little as you like and still benefit! No feeling like "OMG I am behind on the leveling curve because I had to go visit grandma in prison last weekend!"

This is the tragedy of our times, where people actually have come to believe that the point of playing games is to fill bars, accumulate points, etc and that actually having a good time is incidental.


Couldnt agree more.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:02:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Bernard Schuyler
This is the tragedy of our times, where people actually have come to believe that the point of playing games is to fill bars, accumulate points, etc and that actually having a good time is incidental.
Fortunately, there is the ultimate game for filling that needÖ Wink

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:14:00 - [16]
 

because it would be totally stupid to start playing the game without being able to solowtfbbqpwn level 4 missions for a quality 19 agent in .5 space for the best LP conversion while simultaneously trading billions on the market for 18% profit.

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:15:00 - [17]
 

Quote:
This is the tragedy of our times, where people actually have come to believe that the point of playing games is to fill bars, accumulate points, etc and that actually having a good time is incidental.


A big fat Quoted for truth.
All people seem to ask nowadays is "What do i get if i do that"

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:17:00 - [18]
 

Money.

In a game like WoW, once you've got your purples, that's it. Eve doesn't work that way. You can lose your ship. You can lose your implants. You could be a billionaire, faction fit a tech 1 frigate, fly into nullsec, get killed, and then be flat broke. Even if you're very diligent, you're constantly changing ships and upgrading modules. Unless you're either mining or running tech 1 lasers, you're going to be chewing through ammo.

Eve has a lot of isk sinks. Your skills are only half the battle.

Trust me.

Forum Guy
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:33:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Forum Guy on 01/12/2010 15:42:30
Originally by: Bolsak
Iím not 100% sure I like the way the skill system works. There is no benefit to log into the game while training skills. I donít get stronger for killing rats; but I do gain faction for flying missions. I would think that there would be some kind of matrix that would allow trickle down for people that actually play. Some formula that would allow weapon skills to advance while rat hunting or industry skills to go up while mining or basic ship skills to go up while flying from point to point whether itís to pick up an item or running a courier mission.

What are the incentives to log in verse passively train skill? I can kill rats for meager earnings, run missions for some ISK or mine to try and make some cash. Yes, I know about Loyalty Points for doing missions and dog tags from rat huntingÖ But what makes me stronger by playing? Iím not asking about richer!



In one sense you get stronger by being richer. What I mean by this is you are able to buy more advanced implants, better equipment for your ships, replace ship loses easily as well as being able to buy those skill books that you will need.

In another sense you will get stronger by playing the game as you will become better at actually playing the game.

By doing missions you will increase your rep with the corp you are doing the mission for. Keep doing the missions for the corp and you will eventually have enough rep to get a jump clone. Although you could get a jump clone by joining some of the player corp.

I can see if someone new to the game purchased two PLEX and sold them they might think what is the point, because they would already have more isk than they need at that stage. So buying PLEX at the beginning might effect some peoples experience in those early days.

Edit: removed the word 'learning' as it should not have been there.

Bernard Schuyler
Posted - 2010.12.01 15:34:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Bolsak
Maybe I should clarify some things. Iím tired of everyone telling people to go back to WOW if you donít like this or that about any game! I donít play WOW. Iíve played EVE on and off since Beta. Iíve had friends come and go, corporations formed and disbanded. Iíve PVPíd back in the days of mOo. Iíve seen skill changes from flying 10 drones with just the advanced drone interfacing maxed to having to train 27 different skills to get 5 drones flying proficientlyÖ

The only constant for me or people that I've played with is that I/we keep leaving the game.


No game lasts forever. Play it and have fun playing it, so that you can later have fond memories of playing. You will not have fond memories of playing with EveMon while letting the SP accrue.

Portmanteau
Gallente
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:06:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Bolsak
Iím not 100% sure I like the way the skill system works. There is no benefit to log into the game while training skills. I donít get stronger for killing rats; but I do gain faction for flying missions. I would think that there would be some kind of matrix that would allow trickle down for people that actually play. Some formula that would allow weapon skills to advance while rat hunting or industry skills to go up while mining or basic ship skills to go up while flying from point to point whether itís to pick up an item or running a courier mission.

What are the incentives to log in verse passively train skill? I can kill rats for meager earnings, run missions for some ISK or mine to try and make some cash. Yes, I know about Loyalty Points for doing missions and dog tags from rat huntingÖ But what makes me stronger by playing? Iím not asking about richer!



Tell u what, you can pay me Ä15 a month and go pick up litter around your neighbourhood, every 2 days I'll send you an email telling you that you are a better person than you were 2 days ago... deal ?

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:18:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Bernard Schuyler
This is the tragedy of our times, where people actually have come to believe that the point of playing games is to fill bars, accumulate points, etc and that actually having a good time is incidental.
QFT. This is why all my newer PS3 games have frickin' trophies.

MaxxOmega
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:26:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Akita T

Skills are merely the means to an end, not the end itself. And "the end" is different for almost everybody, and different during a character's lifetime and so on and so forth.

Yes, good answer...

Jovialmadness
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:27:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Jovialmadness on 01/12/2010 17:29:12
Oh wow, i think i stated this exact statement im gonna state 6 years ago.

#1. People that work and cant play all the time still get to develop.

#2. people that work and cant play all the time still get punished by lack of isk grinding time(something you think should skill based).

#3. Stop thinking unoriginally and hoping dragons and elves in space is whats needed. Isk is the grind you seek as monetary wealth in eve is as important as character development, not hitting lvl 80 as soon as possible.

ffs

Edit: sp

Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:39:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Bolsak
Iím not 100% sure I like the way the skill system works. There is no benefit to log into the game while training skills. I donít get stronger for killing rats; but I do gain faction for flying missions.

Wel it's the perfect thing for game devs:

- people pay subscription
- people have a sense that they're progressing
- no strain on the servers

Perosnally I can agree with the skilling system. If it only wasn't so slow. As I said before, it's like welfare compared to working: you don't have to do anything for it but you don't get a lot in return either.

Michelle Vega
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:41:00 - [26]
 

Skill Discussion forum is ->> that way.

Linkage

sheesh

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:42:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: heheheh
Originally by: Akita T
Richer IS stronger in EVE.
[...]The rest is player experience (as opposed to character SP). And that you only get by actively playing.

no no no
If your aim is regional or economic control them maybe, but no amount of ISK can teach you how to play.

Re-added what you ("accidentally") cut out and it becomes obvious we are saying the same thing.

Isebelle
Posted - 2010.12.01 17:46:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Isebelle on 01/12/2010 17:47:54
Originally by: Bolsak
I donít get stronger for killing rats;

Originally by: Make Love not Warcraft

Kyle: Dude, rats are only worth 2 experience points a piece. Do you know how many we'd have to kill to get up 30 levels?

Cartman: Yes. 65,340,285, which should take us 7 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours and 20 minutes, giving ourselves 3 hours a night to sleep. What do you say, guys? You can jus... you can just hang outside in the sun all day tossing a ball around. Or you can sit at your computer and do something that matters....




And only then do you really get to start playing the "game"!

Magnus Orin
Minmatar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.12.01 18:34:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Bolsak
There is no benefit to log into the game while training skills.



Then you are clearly playing the game for the wrong reasons.

I play Eve to play Eve. You know, shoot things, socialize with corp/alliance mates, take other peoples space, loose space to other people, build things occasionally, and all that other fun stuff.

If you pay 15 bucks a month to watch a timer tick down over and over... man, I feel for you.

Ash Donai
Minmatar
Kanu Industries
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:00:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Bolsak
But what makes me stronger by playing?

2/10 on the open trolling scale.


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