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blankseplocked Tell me why I should be happy about the removal of Learning Skills.
 
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Decarus
Amarr
Apostlecorp inc.
Posted - 2010.12.01 18:37:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Feligast
Madmah bad. Still bears repeating.


You are, just as you were, right! However, neither quenched my thirst for attention.

Feligast
Minmatar
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.12.01 18:39:00 - [92]
 

Then check the edit to my original post.

Ash Donai
Minmatar
Kanu Industries
Posted - 2010.12.01 18:43:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Dirk Mortice
Assuming you run with +5 implants ALL THE TIME it'd still take you over 8.5 years to make up the 5.4m bonus you are getting. HTFU and stop whining.

Please refrain from using logic to discredit the OP, that's just un-American!

Decarus
Amarr
Apostlecorp inc.
Posted - 2010.12.01 18:52:00 - [94]
 

Dude! I have never heard anyone utter the words "With all due respect" together without him wanting to mean the exact opposite of these words! ugh

Brunaburh
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:07:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
I guess Iím a bitter old vetÖÖÖÖ.by some definitions. Iím not happy about removal of the Learning Skills. I guess some people would call that being bitter. Iíve played EVE for four years and I suppose that some people would consider me a vet. I donít think Iím bitter and I donít necessarily believe Iím a vet, but I donít see why I should be happy about Learning Skills being removed.

As someone who has maxed all 11 of the learning skills Iíve enjoyed an advantage over those who wouldnít commit themselves. Iím about to lose that. Five million three hundred seventy six thousand (5,376,000) skill points is not going to make up for that.

If you play EVE for an additional 9 years, you will (in year 9) start losing the advantage you have had for training the learning skills. At which point, you can revisit the fact that NINE YEARS LATER everyone else has equal opportunity to where you will be then.

Originally by: Windjammer
I spent isk on those training skills and I will not be reimbursed for it. CCP says they donít want to because that would inject 16 trillion isk into the economy. Bull plop. By my calculations the very worst theyíd inject is 7.5 trillion and thatís only if 300,000 subscribers had trained all 11 skills. Sure itís not much by my standards these days, but itís still mine and Iíd like it back and the way EVEís economy works it would not have the dramatic effect that CCP suggests it would.

You paid 25 million ISK (more or less) for a four year boost in your training time. I'd call that a good investment - especially since you are getting 5,376,000 skill points IN ADDITION to the four years of accelerated training you already have had, for that 25 million ISK.

Originally by: Windjammer
It never occurred to me to complain about how long it takes to train things in EVE, be it Learning Skills or high end capital ships skills or whatever else. I understood that this is what people who came before me had to do to get their advantage and it seemed more than fair that I would have to do the same. So I did it without complaint. Another way of putting would be to say I HTFUed and got the job done.

I strongly encourage you to find the version of yourself that previously HTFUed and got the job done, and HTFU and live with this as well.
Originally by: Windjammer
Want to tell me again why I should be happy about it and not express my displeasure? Want to tell me about how Iím the one whoís a whiner?

How about you tell yourself. Listen closely:
Originally by: Windjammer
So I did it without complaint. Another way of putting would be to say I HTFUed and got the job done.

Again:
Originally by: Windjammer
So I did it without complaint. Another way of putting would be to say I HTFUed and got the job done.

Again:
Originally by: Windjammer
So I did it without complaint. Another way of putting would be to say I HTFUed and got the job done.

Once more, in case you didn't hear yourself the first few times:
Originally by: Windjammer
So I did it without complaint. Another way of putting would be to say I HTFUed and got the job done.

And to repeat myself, since you aren't apparently listening to yourself:
Originally by: Brunaburh
I strongly encourage you to find the version of yourself that previously HTFUed and got the job done, and HTFU and live with this as well.

Khorian
Gallente
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:17:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Khorian on 01/12/2010 19:17:36
Learning skills weren't a "choice". They were mandatory for anyone planning to play the game for more than a few weeks. So stop making it sound like it was a kind of freedom that is being taken away.

If you play eve online you have at some point wasted some of your precious time to skill the learning skills. And now you get that time back to spend it on something useful.

Yeah, that really sounds horrible Rolling Eyes

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:23:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 01/12/2010 18:24:05
Originally by: Ranger 1
4: Anything that dumbs down EVE is a bad thing, and unfortunately that is what has happened here.
Ok, I've had it with this argument. Now I will be nasty.

If someone is such a blithering idiot that he thinks that "durrr... do I want zero or do I want more?" is an even remotely difficult decision (not to mention being so difficult as to present an actual choice), then his is the kind of stupidity that the learning skills were supposedly meant to weed out. Since said idiot is here, complaining, it obviously didn't work and the filtering mechanism serves no purpose and can be safely removed. Moreover, said idiot should rather rejoice that the game is now "dumbed down" to the level where even he can play it. Ironically, but luckily, it rather seems to have the effect of making them ragequit the game, and thus, in their final hour, the skills have the desired filtering effect after all. Yay.

Now, we obviously can't go around removing learning skills every patch ó once they're gone, they're gone ó but I think we can get the leftovers by employing similar levels of "dumbing the game down". I propose widening the login button by 2px or so, thereby obviously making the game much easier start. This should throw the next lot in another hissy fit, and we get rid of that bunch of morons as well. Double-yay.

Rolling Eyes


I seem to have hit a nerve.

Respectfully, less choices available in how to guide the training of your character is not a good thing in my opinion.

No one was forced to start by maxing learning skills. There were times when it made perfect sense, there were times when it was a complete waste of time. It depended on the purpose that particular character was being trained for. If you do not understand the latter point, we can sit down and have a discussion at some point about the uses of alts and specialty characters in EVE. You may have never trained a character for anything other than the long haul, however that doesn't change the fact that other types of characters not only exist but are extremely common.

Previously you needed to put some thought into these matters, now you will not. You no longer have the options available. The game has been scaled back, your options limited, your decisions simplified... in my opinion this is not a good thing.

I'm not trying to dis anyone that feels otherwise, and I count myself as one of CCP's stronger supporters. This particular decision they have made, however, leaves me somewhat uneasy and vaguely dissatisfied.

I gave a flippant example before, but lets take this to the next logical step. Lets remove the ability to go to level 5 with a skill. Why?

1: It takes a disproportionatly long period of time to train from level 4 to 5.
2: The benefit of training from level 4 to level 5 is negligable.
3: It is a mechanic designed strictly to keep newer players from being able to "catch up" with older characters.
4: It is an unnecessary time sink.
5: Anyone with level 5 in a skill currently should have the points reimbursed to them.
6: Bonuses granted for levels 1-4 with a skill should be raised to provide the same cumulative benefit at level 4 as you now have for attaining level 5.
7: No one would be hurt by this. Fair compensation would be given to players with level 5 in certain skills, and new players would get the same benefits just in a shorter period of time simply by attaining level 4.
8: Faster training is ALWAYS a good thing.
9: There is no point to FORCING people to train to level 5 to be competetive.
10: We won't continue to lose all those new players who try EVE and say "It takes HOW LONG to train a skill to level 5? Forget it, I'm out of here".
11: This will be a major step forward in leveling the playing field between older and newer characters.

... and other such nonsense. These arguments sound familiar?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:46:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
I seem to have hit a nerve.
Yes. The nerve that makes me tired of idiots complaining that the mechanisms that were apparently intended to keep their idiot arses out of the game are being removed, and arguing that something is "difficult" and thus good simply based their own incompetence at thinking (which, incidentally, proves that it wasn't difficult at all ó they managed it with their malformed ganglia after all).
Quote:
Respectfully, less choices available in how to guide the training of your character is not a good thing in my opinion.
Yes. That's why the removal of learning skill is a good thing: it introduces a far wider arrange of viable choices.
Quote:
Previously you needed to put some thought into these matters, now you will not.
Yes: "is more better than a little?" ó a highly complex thought. Rolling Eyes

This complexity is being replaced by actual choice, and I can only conclude that the aforementioned idiots are afraid that their emergence-deprived ant brains will not be able to cope with the copious cognitive challenge this represents.

Ren Nekk
Dead Eye Dogs
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:48:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 01/12/2010 18:24:05
Originally by: Ranger 1
4: Anything that dumbs down EVE is a bad thing, and unfortunately that is what has happened here.
Ok, I've had it with this argument. Now I will be nasty.

If someone is such a blithering idiot that he thinks that "durrr... do I want zero or do I want more?" is an even remotely difficult decision (not to mention being so difficult as to present an actual choice), then his is the kind of stupidity that the learning skills were supposedly meant to weed out. Since said idiot is here, complaining, it obviously didn't work and the filtering mechanism serves no purpose and can be safely removed. Moreover, said idiot should rather rejoice that the game is now "dumbed down" to the level where even he can play it. Ironically, but luckily, it rather seems to have the effect of making them ragequit the game, and thus, in their final hour, the skills have the desired filtering effect after all. Yay.

Now, we obviously can't go around removing learning skills every patch ó once they're gone, they're gone ó but I think we can get the leftovers by employing similar levels of "dumbing the game down". I propose widening the login button by 2px or so, thereby obviously making the game much easier start. This should throw the next lot in another hissy fit, and we get rid of that bunch of morons as well. Double-yay.

Rolling Eyes

I think it is pretty clear that removing learning skills dumbs the game down. It's not that it has ever been hard to make the decision LEARNING OR NO, but it apparently has been very, ridiculously hard for practically every passing noob and random moron on the forum to realize that you don't, actually, have to spend the first 2 months training learning and nothing but learning.

Just look back at all the handwringing over the question of learning 4/3, 5/4, 5/5, train 'em now or later, etc.. In practically every case all this handwringing existed because the persons in question were too stupid to exercise basic math and common sense.

If the player base was not so stupid, learning skills would be an idiosyncrasy and nothing more - which is in fact all they ever have been. Something unique about the game, which, while being completely unnecessary in the big picture, nevertheless added a bit of flavor to the EVE we know and love (or at least the EVE I know and love).

At the least, I will miss all the amusement they have provided on the forum, especially in New Citizens, where it has indeed been painfully clear how unable - mostly due to sheer stupidity - people are to make reasonable sense of them.

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:51:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Ren Nekk
Originally by: Tippia
Edited by: Tippia on 01/12/2010 18:24:05
Originally by: Ranger 1
4: Anything that dumbs down EVE is a bad thing, and unfortunately that is what has happened here.
Ok, I've had it with this argument. Now I will be nasty.

If someone is such a blithering idiot that he thinks that "durrr... do I want zero or do I want more?" is an even remotely difficult decision (not to mention being so difficult as to present an actual choice), then his is the kind of stupidity that the learning skills were supposedly meant to weed out. Since said idiot is here, complaining, it obviously didn't work and the filtering mechanism serves no purpose and can be safely removed. Moreover, said idiot should rather rejoice that the game is now "dumbed down" to the level where even he can play it. Ironically, but luckily, it rather seems to have the effect of making them ragequit the game, and thus, in their final hour, the skills have the desired filtering effect after all. Yay.

Now, we obviously can't go around removing learning skills every patch ó once they're gone, they're gone ó but I think we can get the leftovers by employing similar levels of "dumbing the game down". I propose widening the login button by 2px or so, thereby obviously making the game much easier start. This should throw the next lot in another hissy fit, and we get rid of that bunch of morons as well. Double-yay.

Rolling Eyes

I think it is pretty clear that removing learning skills dumbs the game down. It's not that it has ever been hard to make the decision LEARNING OR NO, but it apparently has been very, ridiculously hard for practically every passing noob and random moron on the forum to realize that you don't, actually, have to spend the first 2 months training learning and nothing but learning.

Just look back at all the handwringing over the question of learning 4/3, 5/4, 5/5, train 'em now or later, etc.. In practically every case all this handwringing existed because the persons in question were too stupid to exercise basic math and common sense.

If the player base was not so stupid, learning skills would be an idiosyncrasy and nothing more - which is in fact all they ever have been. Something unique about the game, which, while being completely unnecessary in the big picture, nevertheless added a bit of flavor to the EVE we know and love (or at least the EVE I know and love).

At the least, I will miss all the amusement they have provided on the forum, especially in New Citizens, where it has indeed been painfully clear how unable - mostly due to sheer stupidity - people are to make reasonable sense of them.


It doesn't matter when you train{ed} them. Ultimately you had to or face a reduced training timeframe for no reason. It is a pointless waste of a time that should be able to be spent on more important things no matter who you are ingame.

Brunaburh
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:53:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
I gave a flippant example before, but lets take this to the next logical step. Lets remove the ability to go to level 5 with a skill.

<snip>

... and other such nonsense. These arguments sound familiar?

And in 1985 DC Comics released a 12-issue series "Crisis on Infinite Earths" where all the variable possibilities in the DC multiverse were condensed into a singular universe, and alternate paths erased.

I admit your fearmongering post has enough logic to generate a groundswell of emotion in the general ranks. Perhaps you should join the Tea Party in the U.S. to propagandize what might be or what could be Ė but only when it is a bad thing.

What about this - Learning skills provided only one thing - faster training times. They did not enhance actual gameplay - only the metagame of how to be better than someone else on paper, sooner. Sure it was a decision-making process when/how/if to train Learning skills. It made eve more complex, more intellectual perhaps - and in the end those who had done the full grind understood when/how/if to train any particular learning skill. But anyone who had not spent some of time studying the complexities of attributes and skills and skillpoint distributions would be completely oblivious to the delicate balance of learning skill training amongst practical skill training. Perhaps you should pat yourself on the back because you have studied this game deeply enough to glean this gem of knowledge.

I'm all for intellectual discourse. I do it far to often. And to your point, if in some alternate form of the future that has not yet come to be, CCP were to decide to eliminate Level V skills because "they take too long" - there would not be enough skills available IN THE ENTIRE GAME for the vast majority of ~bittervets~ to train to Level IV - and these players would be left with a vast pool of skillpoints they can never use. How would that make sense to a game designer in ANY company?

Ren Nekk
Dead Eye Dogs
Posted - 2010.12.01 19:56:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Anubis Xian
It doesn't matter when you train{ed} them. Ultimately you had to or face a reduced training timeframe for no reason. It is a pointless waste of a time that should be able to be spent on more important things no matter who you are ingame.

The fact that skills train at a certain rate and not instantly is itself an arbitrary decision. The speed skills train at could have been made somewhat slower from the beginning and nobody would have complained, because this decision would not have introduced a game mechanic most of the player base is too stupid to understand.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:01:00 - [103]
 

So let me get this straight--the reason you're not happy about the removal of learning skills isn't for some mathematical reason (you'll train slower, etc) but because you'll lose a sense of superiority over the unwashed masses of newbies? Really?

I think you have some deep psychological issues you should work out if this is really that important for you to feel good about yourself.

My learning skills are 5/5 except for 5/4 in charisma and I really don't care that they're going away. I got over two years of training with maxed attributes with +5 implants plus I'm getting those SP back. This is a win/win situation for all involved except for those with what sounds like deep-seated emotional issues like yourself.

Sakura Shiawase
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:01:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
I guess Iím a bitter old vetÖÖÖÖ.by some definitions. Iím not happy about removal of the Learning Skills. I guess some people would call that being bitter. Iíve played EVE for four years and I suppose that some people would consider me a vet. I donít think Iím bitter and I donít necessarily believe Iím a vet, but I donít see why I should be happy about Learning Skills being removed.



Why you should be happy:
-11 skills that presently do nothing but sit around looking pretty will be replaced with over 5 million sp in skills that actually do something.
-Learning skills represented a barrier to entry. Bringing down barriers to entry will ultimately mean more players which means more people to boss around/trade with/blow up/whatever.

Why you should shut up:
-You already got yours. Both in the lead time your four years in-game gives you and in the advantage your learning skills gave you over that time. None of that's going away.
-The money you spent on learning skills is peanuts. If you can't make it in a week as a four year old, you're not trying.
-People will stop calling you bitter, saying you're a hater, etc, which might have benefits for your blood pressure.
-I've been playing since Beta, I've had the learning skills longer than you've been playing, and I'm ecstatic.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:03:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Ren Nekk
In practically every case all this handwringing existed because the persons in question were too stupid to exercise basic math and common sense.
So again: something very simple is being reframed as a kind of difficulty that is good to have because it keeps dumb players out. Never mind the fact that it wasn't actually difficult and never mind that it didn't work, because you'd still have to be dumb to think it was difficult to begin with, and because those dumb players (whom the filter didn't catch) are now complaining that the very very simple thing (that they felt was difficult) is being removed.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:06:00 - [106]
 

It's like watching angry basement dwellers fight special olympics athletes.

/popcorn

Forum Guy
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:16:00 - [107]
 

It does not really matter anymore anyway.

The debate is over, the learning skills are going and the majority of players will be happy to see the back of them.

Any new debate on the subject just airs a few peoples frustrations, it won't change anything.

Ranger 1: As for your concerns about the skill tree getting shorter still, just read the blog. You will see CCP could have made training even faster, But they did not want to do that. So it seems your fears are unfounded.

You also have to remember the learning skills removal is not just CCP bowing to player pressure, this is something CCP wanted also.

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:20:00 - [108]
 

fully support you Windjammer, I feel the same.

Cant trick a vet into believing. I have my own sense of being reasonable.

The worst is that everybody will be training at almost similar rates, thus erasing the gap between elite and standard and basic skill levels. Moreover Implants will become more of an issue, as it will the only way to make a difference.

And finally 5,6 mill SPs is what a beginner can only reach in 4-6 months of training dedicated only to learning skills. A player becomes more seasoned and more advanced on year 1-2 of game progress, when he can allow to spare 2-3 mill SP on getting lvl 5s in learning done. 3-4 year old players are hardcore and determined in the way they have multiple specializations and quite a number of elite skill certificates, which really make the difference between pilots.

With new changes every player will be advancing in a linear mode, following and straightforward path in shorter timeframe. How ever people will become more typical, with less diversity over time.

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:26:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Khorian
Edited by: Khorian on 01/12/2010 19:17:36
Learning skills weren't a "choice". They were mandatory for anyone planning to play the game for more than a few weeks. So stop making it sound like it was a kind of freedom that is being taken away.

If you play eve online you have at some point wasted some of your precious time to skill the learning skills. And now you get that time back to spend it on something useful.

Yeah, that really sounds horrible Rolling Eyes


Foo FOO... it had a meaning of improvement, getting over slow training speeds, observing your character do better every time. A progress which attaches you to your character.

Now it's more hack-and-slash approach, where you do not really think about your character and can start and stop playing at anytime with no second thought.

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:38:00 - [110]
 

Quick! Somebody call the WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE! Rolling Eyes


Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:39:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Sakura Shiawase


Why you should be happy:
-11 skills that presently do nothing but sit around looking pretty will be replaced with over 5 million sp in skills that actually do something.

-Learning skills represented a barrier to entry. Bringing down barriers to entry will ultimately mean more players which means more people to boss around/trade with/blow up/whatever.

Why you should shut up:
-You already got yours. Both in the lead time your four years in-game gives you and in the advantage your learning skills gave you over that time. None of that's going away.
-The money you spent on learning skills is peanuts. If you can't make it in a week as a four year old, you're not trying.



foul reasoning... all you want is to attract more alts. 11 skills that keep 'creepy' spies away from entering solid alliances, skills that cost money and time and make spamming low level characters not so easy. This skills also create a bond with your character, let yourself associate your character with his level of professionalism and long term plans.

The level of ill-purpose alts will surge as well as the number of macrobots. Learning skills is the only barrier that keeps the countless alts within 2 months period before entering the world. Some tasks are not worth it. Now any sort of business goes, fast training, no extra cost, no micromanagement, no attachment to the character. Just like plastic cup, make and forget, more garbage for the environment.

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:40:00 - [112]
 

Why do bitter vets never cry with their mains?

Ren Nekk
Dead Eye Dogs
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:46:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Ren Nekk
In practically every case all this handwringing existed because the persons in question were too stupid to exercise basic math and common sense.
So again: something very simple is being reframed as a kind of difficulty that is good to have because it keeps dumb players out. Never mind the fact that it wasn't actually difficult and never mind that it didn't work, because you'd still have to be dumb to think it was difficult to begin with, and because those dumb players (whom the filter didn't catch) are now complaining that the very very simple thing (that they felt was difficult) is being removed.

To be fair, I'm not saying learning skills should be kept - and I certainly wouldn't say they should be kept to "keep the dumb people out." I am just personally sad to see them go, and not for the usually stated reasons, but because I enjoyed them from a kind of aesthetic perspective. To be honest all the confusion surrounding them has been more frustrating than amusing, since I have always had a genuine appreciation for them. But for what it's worth, I am looking forward to using my tons of learning SP Very Happy

Gallians
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:46:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Opertone
waaaaaa and nonsense.


Really? Spinning in station being able to do nothing attaches you to your character?

Funny, of all the problems CCP and players, old and new had with the learnings "growing too attached to your character" wasn't one.

I guess people quit the game not because of what a tedious and mind numbingly boring task it is to train the learnings to be able to train anything else at all in a reasonable amount of time once bonus ends; but because they grew too attached to their characters.

Like, so close. They printed little cutouts of those happy portraits, and pasted their walls with tiny skill queues covered with hearts. Unfortunately they were so close to the game that they couldn't work and thus at the end of their trial, they never subbed, or logged on again.

They loved too deeply. Cared too much.

PS: That has been the most pants on head ******ed thing I have heard in a while. And this place is full of amusing musings like those.

Forum Guy
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:51:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Opertone
The worst is that everybody will be training at almost similar rates, thus erasing the gap between elite and standard and basic skill levels. Moreover Implants will become more of an issue, as it will the only way to make a difference.


That does not really matter, people will be learning different skills. Only people worried about that are the sp total seekers and most of the community could not care two hoots about that.

Originally by: Opertone

And finally 5,6 mill SPs is what a beginner can only reach in 4-6 months of training dedicated only to learning skills. A player becomes more seasoned and more advanced on year 1-2 of game progress, when he can allow to spare 2-3 mill SP on getting lvl 5s in learning done. 3-4 year old players are hardcore and determined in the way they have multiple specializations and quite a number of elite skill certificates, which really make the difference between pilots..


That does not always workout like that. They might have done what I did with one character, train to 5/5 by playing another game. The rest I only took to 5/4 and that was near the beginning of their existence.

Originally by: Opertone

With new changes every player will be advancing in a linear mode, following and straightforward path in shorter timeframe. How ever people will become more typical, with less diversity over time.


It's not going to be that linear there is a lot of choice as to which skills you are going to learn even at the start.

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:51:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: Syn Callibri on 01/12/2010 20:52:33

Originally by: Opertone

WAAAAAAAAAA.


...fixed it for ya. Neutral





Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:52:00 - [117]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 01/12/2010 20:58:41
Forum Guy, you are correct in that the decision has been made. On this forum that will never stop people from fervently debating whether a decision was the correct one. Very Happy

Tippia, just take a step back and relax. I am not, and never have, tried to make out that people who were not in favor of learning skills were too stupid to figure them out.

My point is simply this:

EVE is a game that is about choices and their consequences.

If I equip my ship to be strong in EW, it will have weak shields as a consequence.

If I pilot this ship I will have a stronger tank, if I pilot that one I will have more speed.

If I train PI skills now I will quickly have a low but steady source of income, if I train up my manufacturing skills instead I will be broke for a much longer period of time but will make better money when I am done.

If I focus on my industrial skills, I will be ill prepared for PVP operations.

If I devote my time to training my covert cyno alt, I will not be able to train my main.

If I skip learning skills on that cyno alt he will become competent at that task very quickly (and I can go back to training my main), but he will suffer in the long run without them if I choose to train him to be proficient at other tasks as well.

If I max learning skills on my cyno alt first, it will take months longer before he is useful to me in that capacity... and it will set back the training of my main character even longer.

My point is not that making intelligent choices concerning learning skills was particularly difficult. My point is that they were important, and added layers (and consequences) to the choices you make when developing a training plan for your characters (all three of them). My opinion is that those choices were a good thing, and added depth to the game... removing those choices, those layers of the character development process, is not.

Obviously this whole thing is not a game breaker for anyone. It's simply not a trend I would like to see continue.



Akhmed TDT
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:55:00 - [118]
 

I like the idea, but it kinda sucks that multiple accounts with 3 chars per account had to put training on hold for a few weeks while the other chars did learning skills necessary to be a good datacore/research/whatever alt. I have no idea what I'll be putting those SP towards on the alts. I'd rather have it all pooled back to my main char that was the one that actually went without training while they skilled up.

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:56:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Syn Callibri on 01/12/2010 20:58:37

Originally by: Ranger 1



EVE is a game that is about choices....




So why not let new players actually make choices instead of paying a sub to sit and ship-spin while they mandatorily train up learning skills?

(edit for spelling)


Dante Marcellus
Minmatar
Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
Posted - 2010.12.01 20:58:00 - [120]
 

Learn to deal with change or give me your ISK. Either is a benefit to the community.


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