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Klatho Cron
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:41:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Black Dranzer
..
The needs of many outweigh the needs of a few.
..


The stupidity and whining of many outweigh the whining of a few.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:47:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Arthur Frayn
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 01/12/2010 10:41:55
Originally by: Windjammer
Stuff


Nobody likes a whiner, especially one who is getting 5 million+ skillpoints back with no change to their attribute levels, and who just cannot handle the idea of newer players training skills faster but still won't ever reach his skill level.

Since you can't change the situation, either accept it and move on or leave because nobody here is interested in your complaints about it.
By posting a reply you prove that you are interested. You were interested enough to read it and you were interested enough to reply. Clearly it has some value to you. Perhaps youíd be happier if they didnít give me my 5,376,000 skill points to be distributed wherever I wish.

-Windjammer

Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:52:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
By posting a reply you prove that you are interested. You were interested enough to read it and you were interested enough to reply. Clearly it has some value to you. Perhaps youíd be happier if they didnít give me my 5,376,000 skill points to be distributed wherever I wish.

-Windjammer



I knew I should have said "interested in supporting your complaint". Oh well, that was the intent. I do hope you get your skillpoints back and use them well, because I think you'd be better off in giving up this umbrage you've taken over CCP's decision.

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:56:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
...bitter vet rant...


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Windjammer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 10:56:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Takseen
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Darth Satanicus
You need an edge over new players? After a four year head start?

I am disappoint Sad
No. I don't need it. I want it. I don't give away advantages in real life for no reason and I see no reason to do so in this competitive game. I'm here to win. What are you here for? To weave baskets and do a drum circle sing along?

-Windjammer


>Thinks he can win Eve
>Thinks he can win Eve by having the most skillpoints.
>laughinggirls.jpg etc
No. I cannot win EVE. I donít have the time to spare for that and the infrastructure mechanics do not currently support such an endeavor even if I did.

EVE cannot be won by having the most skill points. However, having the most skill points helps a lot in curb stomping the competition. When all other aspects are equal, he/she who has the superior skill training will win a confrontation.

-Windjammer

Darth Satanicus
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:03:00 - [36]
 

Ok seriously, its going to make no difference that is discernible to your attributes, and you are getting 5 mill sp's back to put into whatever you want, and you are unhappy. By training all those skills you've put yourself behind other players of the same age as you who didn't bother training them all to lvl 5, and now ccp level the field for everyone including you and still you are unhappy.

The only things you can say in your defence are:
Newbs train faster than you - well with cerebral thingy they train faster than everyone so relax.
Lost isk - Oh come on now, 4 years and 25 mill is a big deal?
Loss of advantage - Well, sp's never give anyone a real advantage, even a 100mill sp'r can be felled by a week old in the right circumstances, and relying on sp to win your fights/market stuff/indy whatever will see you knocked down by the very thing you fear = newbs.

In a year you wont even recall why you made a fuss over it (as long as newbs don't constantly pwn you in the meantime) as you'll see it really makes little difference in the great scheme of things. Very Happy

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:06:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Windjammer

I'll be charitable and assume that you speak english as a distant second language. As for your reasoning...I can't really excuse you.

Twenty five million isk is indeed a small amount of money. That wasn't the point. The point is that it's a poor excuse for robbing a man to say that it's not much.

-Windjammer


CCP robbed you of nothing and you thinking that shows you have zero understanding of CCP's EULA. Also, you were obviously not around when CCP introduced the learning skills and how that was a mistake when it occurred. So this is nothing more then CCP correcting a move that they have thought was a bad one for many years. So that is why you should not be upset about it, as for why you are mad about it and how to fix that, I have no clue.

Good luck with your healing process Razz


Slade

isca
Gallente
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:06:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: isca on 01/12/2010 11:50:39
Originally by: Windjammer
I guess Iím a bitter old vetÖÖÖÖ.

RANT

If I were convinced that this change would increase the numbers of active players in EVE, Iíd be all for it. It wonít.

-Windjammer



I too have been ingame for over 4 years (soon to be 5 in Jan '11 Razz ) and have invested time into training learning skills. The advantage was nice but it did seem an unnecessary timesink when i was new and just wanted to get in a cruiser as quick as possible. Nonetheless i dutifully trained up the learning skills and it was an immense relief when it was all over and i could get on with the other stuff.

I am looking forward to having learning skills removed and the skillpoint redistribution is going to be sweet Very Happy. ffs move on, no matter how many newbies come into the game from now on, or even those ingame from a year after yourself, you still have the time advantage and the skill advantage over them. FFS quit ranting like a spoiled teenager -it's happening, deal with it and grow the hell up. YARRRR!!

Wensley
Minmatar
Matari Exodus
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:09:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
EVE cannot be won by having the most skill points. However, having the most skill points helps a lot in curb stomping the competition. When all other aspects are equal, he/she who has the superior skill training will win a confrontation.


Tell me of these confrontations: http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=search&searchtype=pilot&searchphrase=Windjammer

If the response is "this is not my main" then man up and post with your main.

Also yeah, yeah, I know I'm feeding the troll but real life skill > skillpoints every time.

Arthur Frayn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:16:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
However, having the most skill points helps a lot in curb stomping the competition.


I can see where you're coming from. You have an advantage that you worked hard for and now that advantage is being taken away in what appears to be an arbitrary decision by CCP.

How would you feel if the situation were reversed? What if something was taken away from all new players that veteran players still got to keep? Would you be angry that CCP made things unfair for new players because they couldn't gain what was made available to you in the past and which you were still taking advantage of? Or would you be happy that you had one more advantage with which to "curbstomp" newer players?

I somehow doubt that you would complain or have a problem with CCP making an arbitrary change that favoured you over newer players. Please tell me I'm wrong because if I'm not, then your hypocritical attitude deserves nothing but scorn.

Infinity Ziona
Minmatar
Cloakers
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:20:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 01/12/2010 11:21:45
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Takseen
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Darth Satanicus
You need an edge over new players? After a four year head start?

I am disappoint Sad
No. I don't need it. I want it. I don't give away advantages in real life for no reason and I see no reason to do so in this competitive game. I'm here to win. What are you here for? To weave baskets and do a drum circle sing along?

-Windjammer


>Thinks he can win Eve
>Thinks he can win Eve by having the most skillpoints.
>laughinggirls.jpg etc
No. I cannot win EVE. I donít have the time to spare for that and the infrastructure mechanics do not currently support such an endeavor even if I did.

EVE cannot be won by having the most skill points. However, having the most skill points helps a lot in curb stomping the competition. When all other aspects are equal, he/she who has the superior skill training will win a confrontation.

-Windjammer


Only if the ship your flying doesn't have its skillpoints / support skills / module fitted skills maxxed already. I have 2 million skillpoints in mining from when I first started EvE.

If you and I had exactly 20 million skillpoints in identical combat skills for one ship, but I had my additional mining skills as well making me have 22 million skillpoints I doubt those would be very useful except for salvaging your wreck afterwards.

EvE is probably not going to be around in another 8 years, most people will move onto something newer and better, you invested your time in learning skills early on, and you reaped more rewards then those that didn't, you easily recovered the training time, you get more points refunded. In short, since you invested so much in training learning, your investment paid greater dividends over time, and your lumpsum payout is greater then everyone elses. You are the winner of the learning skill game.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:20:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Wensley

Tell me of these confrontations: http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=search&searchtype=pilot&searchphrase=Windjammer

If the response is "this is not my main" then man up and post with your main.

Also yeah, yeah, I know I'm feeding the troll but real life skill > skillpoints every time.


Mmmm not even a single loss on BC either, never mind a kill.

The only instance where SP > real life skill is building stuff or mining and after 4 years+ if he hasn't got that nailed then he never will.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:23:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Malcanis on 01/12/2010 11:38:29
Originally by: Windjammer

As someone who has maxed all 11 of the learning skills Iíve enjoyed an advantage over those who wouldnít commit themselves. Iím about to lose that. Five million three hundred seventy six thousand (5,376,000) skill points is not going to make up for that.


Er yes, actually it is. That's exactly what it's going to make up for. You get 5.76M SP to spend in skills with awkward stat combinations, meaning that you can use your fancy-dan spec'd skills to keep on rolling at 2700 SP/hr while other, lesser beings will have to do without those skills or train at a sub-optimal rate, thus giving you what scientists are calling an advantage. Not to mention that even if you put those 5.76M SP into respec skills, you'll still have more non-learning skillpoints for 5760000/72 hrs = 3,333 days, 8 hours. Just over 9 years. There's your other advantage for training 5+5s: you'll have a skill advantage for NINE YEARS. And that's only if you put the SP into respec skills; put them in stuff like Leadership or Social, and you'll probably have an SP advantage lasting well over a decade.

As a final bonus, CCP have also effectively just increased the SP headroom of your clone by 5.76M SP.

PS I trained my learning skills before all this new player experience stuff started too. I trained them at the time because I wanted them at the time. That was all the justification I needed.

Also lol @ you whining about 20 mill ISK worth of skillbooks that you bought 4 years ago. Seriously? Really? Rolling Eyes In the time you took to baww about your 20 mill (they you spent four years ago) you could have quite literally made at least that much ISK.

Things change. Adapt, although being handed a massive free bonus doesn't actually take much adapting too. HTFU.

Or alternatively, contract me your stuffs and biomass yourself. Either is fine.

But whatever you do, please improve your mathematical literacy to the point where people dont think of you as an uneducated ignoramus as well as a whiny little crybaby.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:23:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Black Dranzer on 01/12/2010 11:33:49
Originally by: Klatho Cron
The stupidity and whining of many outweigh the whining of a few.
You only consider it stupidity because you're in the minority and as a result you're too frustrated to see the bigger picture.

Mme Pinkerton
The pink win
Posted - 2010.12.01 11:29:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
I spent isk on those training skills and I will not be reimbursed for it. CCP says they donít want to because that would inject 16 trillion isk into the economy. Bull plop. By my calculations the very worst theyíd inject is 7.5 trillion and thatís only if 300,000 subscribers had trained all 11 skills. Sure itís not much by my standards these days, but itís still mine and Iíd like it back and the way EVEís economy works it would not have the dramatic effect that CCP suggests it would.

Because there's only one character on each account?

Riedle
Minmatar
Paradox Collective
Posted - 2010.12.01 12:57:00 - [46]
 

Quote:
Tell me why I should be happy about the removal of Learning Skills.


TBPFH with you I couldn't care less if you were happy about it or not.

This just in: You are NOT el33t because you have training to 5/5 lols
Sad what some people kling to isn't it?

Killstealing
Posted - 2010.12.01 13:04:00 - [47]
 

well he is right

for him, removing the learning skills is not an improvement so therefore it is smart to be against it. Anything else would be empathic and well

AstarothPrime
Posted - 2010.12.01 13:07:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Windjammer

***
a lot of blah blah
***



... all translates to one sentence of your statement:

"They put a hard one up my arse - I now DEMAND that they put it up everyones elses."

Moral - dont be a prick, I am really glad newbs wont be forced to train that crap of learning skills.

Regards

I.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 13:41:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Windjammer
Another way of putting would be to say I HTFUed and got the job done.



No you didn't. You trained the learning skills as you needed them. You didn't need to train Charisma until you started training charisma related skills. In other words, you could train the learning skills in small doses as they were needed.

By comparison, newbies are highly encouraged to train *all* the learning skills *immediately*. It's the smart thing to do in order to maximize the two free remaps and the accelerated training bonus. (Burn one remap to optimize learning skill training, then burn the second remap to focus on what you really want to do in Eve.)

It's one thing to train the learning skills as you need them. It's quite another to encourage newbies to train them all at once for 1+ months immediately upon logging in. The Newbie Experience should be flying, mining, or building and not about learning how to train skills faster.


Having said that, I personally am glad the damn learning skills are gone. Could a better replacement system have been implemented? Yes, but the time and effort to implement an alternative system could be put to better use on improving Eve in other ways.

Quote:
-Loss of advantage.

Yes. But you didn't gain a disadvantage in the process.

You also gain a (minor) advantage in that you can apply your skill point refund to skills that you're not optimized for. Meaning, if Charisma is your lowest attribute, then dumping your points into charisma skills is like having Charisma maxed out.

Quote:
-Loss of my isk.

No. Your isk provided value by improving your training rate. Divide the money your spent on skillbooks by 4 years and the cost is negligible.

Quote:
-Slower training time than the first 30 days of some newb coming into the game.

That makes about as much sense as a newbie complaining about vets having a 4+ year head start.

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.12.01 13:48:00 - [50]
 

Why should we tell you anything if your too stupid to see whet the change does.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.12.01 13:51:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Windjammer

As someone who has maxed all 11 of the learning skills Iíve enjoyed an advantage over those who wouldnít commit themselves. Iím about to lose that. Five million three hundred seventy six thousand (5,376,000) skill points is not going to make up for that.

How many SP do you have? I'm just curious in case it means I will surpass you when you quit or if am already ahead of you. Laughing

Forum Guy
Posted - 2010.12.01 13:52:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Forum Guy on 01/12/2010 13:55:10
Originally by: stoicfaux
By comparison, newbies are highly encouraged to train *all* the learning skills *immediately*.



This is no longer an issue to new players starting now as new players can no longer buy the learning set of skill books. But yes it holds true for those newish players that have already started learning those skills.

There are players trying to sell them at silly prices probably to people starting an alt although with only 2 weeks left if all goes well I doubt there's much point. But as they will be removed you can't even keep them as a keep-sake there really is not much point buying those books from the market.

Phenethylamine
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:01:00 - [53]
 

It's seems kind of maladjusted to climb up into a public place and inform people about something for no other purpose than to tell them you don't care what they think.

Jarne
Caldari
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:02:00 - [54]
 

Ahhh nice to hear all that whining from those with maxed-out learnings.

They were always told that you'd need years for the lvl 5s in advanced learnings to kick in. Now they realize that didn't have any gain from it because they're removed. Also they realize that all that time they spent on learnings could have been invested much better in real skills that would have given them instant benefits.

All I have to say to this is: told ya...

DarkAegix
Gallente
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:03:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Klatho Cron
Originally by: DarkAegix
Because it'll take 8.5 years before you have less SP than what you'd normally have?
Give your stuff away. ASAP. I don't even care if it's not to me.


It takes 1 ****ing minute and he has less. Beyond stupid again..and it seems to never stop..

Derp. Derpity derp derp derp. Derp a herp a derp.Rolling Eyes
Guess what? Laughing
Skill. Point. Remap.
5+ million SP remap.
~8.5 years until he has less than what he'd have before.

Lorieen
AQ Militis Seprentia
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:14:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion

Learning skills were an unnecessary damper on learning how to have fun in the game starting from day one. This change is a benefit to everyone except sadomasochists, people who feel entitled to seniority advantages and people who want to torture newbies the same way they were.


You say that like that is a bad thing.......

Forum Guy
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:15:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Forum Guy on 01/12/2010 14:23:21
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Why should we tell you anything if your too stupid to see whet the change does.



This has to be one of the dumbest statements I've seen, assuming you are not just trolling.

Yep, for your information we do know what the changes do, that is why the majority of people are actually happy with the changes.

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:39:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 01/12/2010 14:40:23
Originally by: Forum Guy
Edited by: Forum Guy on 01/12/2010 14:23:21
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Why should we tell you anything if your too stupid to see whet the change does.



This has to be one of the dumbest statements I've seen, assuming you are not just trolling.

Yep, for your information we do know what the changes do, that is why the majority of people are actually happy with the changes.


lol i always catch an american out.

Barkaial Starfinder
Minmatar
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:45:00 - [59]
 

Since you never left University of Caille, I guess you probably hate the NPC corp tax change too.
That is, unless you use alts to expose your opinions.


You fail to understand the change that is upon you, even when it's crystal clear that you also benefit, and nothing can be said here to change that.

Forum Guy
Posted - 2010.12.01 14:48:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 01/12/2010 14:40:23
Originally by: Forum Guy
Edited by: Forum Guy on 01/12/2010 14:23:21
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
Why should we tell you anything if your too stupid to see whet the change does.



This has to be one of the dumbest statements I've seen, assuming you are not just trolling.

Yep, for your information we do know what the changes do, that is why the majority of people are actually happy with the changes.


lol i always catch an american out.


Really! Which American would that be?


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