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Kazaam
Posted - 2010.11.29 05:58:00 - [1]
 

Drop the price of +5 Neural Boost Implants by 10 million isk in 30 minutes or less. Basically collapsing the market.

Well I was bored and I got sick of seeing 1 ISKers come in there and try and bully me and out and I didn't really need the money anyways but based on my calculations I have collectively made 220 million in profit disappear from very 1 Isker's in Jita with a relatively small amount of work. This can be done with any item. I full challenge everybody to find their own hotly contested item and do the same thing.

It went like this:

They 1 isked
I dropped it by 10k
They 1 isked
I dropped it by 50k
They 1 isked
I dropped it by 100k
They 1 isked
I dropped it by 200k
They 1 isked
I dropped it by 500k
They 1 isked
I dropped it by 1000k
They 1 isked
I dropped it by 2000k
which so far they have done 3 more times.

I would like to start a Movement in protest of 1 iskers
Everyone please find and item and grief a trader and then post the results in here.



mechtech
SRS Industries
SRS.
Posted - 2010.11.29 06:15:00 - [2]
 

I never really got this mentality. 95% of .01 iskers aren't traders, they're people carrying a few of the item and they want to dump onto the market asap. If you lower the price by 100k it's not like any of them are suddenly not going to want to dump their item any more, they'll just undercut you yet again and wait until their stack sells.

In the absence of volatility margins will always close. If people .01 isk, the margins close very very slowly, if someone takes effort to tank the market (like you did) margins close faster, this is hardly remarkable.

The margins will stay low until a heavy trader buys them up or until the market moves and the drifting price opens up margins again.

I guess I just don't mind .01 iskers, although many do... It is true that the market masses act like headless sheep though, and as a general rule a market with high profit potential is a fragile construct that is either coincidence (not enough competition) or the product of artificial support (manipulation). It's very easy to kill trading profits with simple actions such as yours, as stated before profitable markets are usually fragile.

When the average seller just pops into the game and spends a grand total of 5 seconds looking at the market screen before .01ing w/ the scroll wheel yet again, I can hardly fault the headless sheep behavior though. At the end of the day what you did was basically short term market trolling, there are profitable ways to use this behavior as well you know Wink.

Kazaam
Posted - 2010.11.29 06:24:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Kazaam on 29/11/2010 06:41:49
Honestly I get what you are saying but, I didn't buy the item I used some old Lp to get it. On the other hand there was traders with 5, 6 and 7 units playing the 1isk game with me. I would hardly think of them as average players.

Also to argue your point about average Joes my bet is they don't even get involved in the ISK games because their time is more important and they either sell directly to buy orders or they put an even number because it is easier. Both of these things I do.

Joe Starbreaker
M. Corp
Posted - 2010.11.29 06:43:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kazaam
Also to argue your point about average Joes my bet is they don't even get involved in the ISK games because their time is more important and they either sell directly to buy orders or they put an even number because it is easier. Both of these things I do.


Average "Joe" here. Yes, when I'm selling loot or stuff from LP store, I will sell it at 0.01 ISK below the current best price. What alternative course of action makes any sense at all, unless you're desperate for cash?

OP is a market troll. He undercuts others' prices significantly, costing them profit, in order to protest people undercutting his prices by minimal amounts? *snip*
Please refrain from personal attacks. Spitfire

Tea Partier
Posted - 2010.11.29 06:54:00 - [5]
 

Makes me wonder if a macro program was/is being used and just how many holes there are in it.

Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
Posted - 2010.11.29 07:04:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Valandril on 29/11/2010 07:04:45
Originally by: Tea Partier
Makes me wonder if a macro program was/is being used and just how many holes there are in it.
Most of bots to undercut are smart enough and tanking resistant which is available as setting*

* - for legal purposes i never saw bot and never had/used one and i'm speculating based on info from my ass

Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
Posted - 2010.11.29 07:21:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Cista2 on 29/11/2010 07:33:18

Originally by: Kazaam
I didn't buy the item I used some old Lp to get it.
Oh I see, you got them for FREE. Just like the LP you also probably got them for FREE. That's not usually a profitable way of thinking.

Apart from that I liked your little story. But just keep doing your thing, the 0.01 iskers will do their thing, you do whatever is best for your profit. No need to get upset about it.

Now, can anyone translate what a Neural Implant +5 or whatever he said is in market terms? If I knew what it was I would go buy them.

Ambo
I've Got Nothing
Posted - 2010.11.29 07:30:00 - [8]
 

Hey OP, if you really want to stick it to them then buy all the implants on the market and re-list at 100 isk each. That will show them who's boss!

Discordless
Posted - 2010.11.29 07:43:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Kazaam
Stuff

You just lost at least 2mil :) and it doesn't really hurt most of the people that *regularly* trade implants. I for one will pause my trades until people like you are gone. There's no rush, implants will be sold eventually :)

On a side note, somebody did the same thing with some T2 modules. Guess he wanted to "**** off .1 iskers". He undercut by as much as 5mil. Never got to thank him for doing this, netted me a nice 7mil profit on each item I bought from him.

Serene Python
Posted - 2010.11.29 08:37:00 - [10]
 

I noticed this with a few items I am currently trading... It's with buy orders how ever so I can't really just buy them out and I'm not going to drop enough units to make them go away cause they'll make 20+% profit easily.
I've done this a few times on items I manufactured. It effected the market for a week and it went back to normal. So unless you plan on keeping the market low nothing interesting here

Caldari 5
Amarr
The Element Syndicate
Blazing Angels Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.29 09:00:00 - [11]
 

I prefer manipulating the market the other way, Buy all the sell orders in a region, doubling the price and putting them up to sell again, and making the items in LS 10 times the price. Seeing people buy Medium Defence Field Purgers for 30M is funny :)

Normally a long shot, but sometimes it pays off :P

Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
Posted - 2010.11.29 10:47:00 - [12]
 

To OP: thanks for the tip, I bought the implants that were for sale @ 100 mil isk. Buy orders are now at 107 mil.

AnakieNine
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:03:00 - [13]
 

Dam you cista2. After reading the first couple of posts I also opened the jita market screen to buy them all up. instead find you already had.

I suggest if anyone else has crashed an item over 10+% they post it here so we all can raise it again and profit instead of them.

future thanks :)

Discordless
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:16:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Cista2
To OP: thanks for the tip, I bought the implants that were for sale @ 100 mil isk. Buy orders are now at 107 mil.

Did the same thing in Rens with some implants/T2 mods. You don't wanna know the amount of hatemail I got :D

Machete Visor
Posted - 2010.11.29 14:07:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Machete Visor on 29/11/2010 14:07:27
Originally by: Valandril
Edited by: Valandril on 29/11/2010 07:04:45
Originally by: Tea Partier
Makes me wonder if a macro program was/is being used and just how many holes there are in it.
Most of bots to undercut are smart enough and tanking resistant which is available as setting*

* - for legal purposes i never saw bot and never had/used one and i'm speculating based on info from my ass



which is why the formula to get your order to the top/bottom of the stack is current price +/- X where X is the threshold for the bot + 0.01isk.

Assuming you can never catch up to a bot b/c they are too fast / persistent, the only way to capture margin is to guess what X is.

Sure, it erodes your profits. But some profit is better than no profit, right?

Additionally, a player also has a number X where they will not lower/raise the price because to them the fluctuation is either "temporary" or "too expensive".

Guessing X is fun.

Oh, and I bought a few of those implants at 107M or so.

Thanks OP!

Drexciyian
The Water Margin Tech
Posted - 2010.11.29 14:49:00 - [16]
 

0.01 rules, stop whining massive undercuts do not mean you'll sell an faster

Master Flakattack
Posted - 2010.11.29 15:38:00 - [17]
 

When you see a guy listing 17 implants at once price, and then the next lowest order is for one implant and is 0.01isk less, don't bother fighting with the guy selling at .01isk less... you're just going to wear yourself out. Just put it up at his price and walk away.

Though I agree, tanking markets can be fun and if done properly, can be very profitable.

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2010.11.29 15:55:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Rasz Lin on 29/11/2010 19:51:02
1/10
you lost at trading game

ps: i feel i need to elaborate
What you should of done was look at item history, figure out +5 implants hit 100mil every 2 weeks and then swing back up, keep dumping the price till it hit 1002-105mil, buy everything below 110 out and relist.

Lanais Suleia
Posted - 2010.11.30 00:37:00 - [19]
 

Can't believe nobody has beaten me to this...

U mad?

Yeah, he mad.

Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2010.11.30 01:49:00 - [20]
 

What really matters is whether Kazaam made a profit doing this or not - and whether he really has the will to compete.

In principle, what he did was ethically sound and very moral - he took it the whole way to assert his own individual ego/agenda regardless of the other players in the market. That is commendable.

Also - you can kick a market as hard as you want, it won't break Wink

Discordless
Posted - 2010.11.30 05:37:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Liberty Eternal
What really matters is whether Kazaam made a profit doing this or not

Of course he did, didn't you read the topic? His implants were... free *chuckles*

Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
Posted - 2010.11.30 07:43:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: AnakieNine
Dam you cista2. After reading the first couple of posts I also opened the jita market screen to buy them all up. instead find you already had.
And all sold again Wink

Kazaam
Posted - 2010.11.30 08:35:00 - [23]
 

You see this is why I love you guys I been reading MD for about 4 years now. The purpose of this thread was to encourage others to move markets like I did with 1 implant. With 1 inplant I plunged a whole market 10% of it's value because the other fewls who were modding their orders same as me were to stupid to realize it was 1 guy changing the price be even numbers each and every time.

They didn't realize they could have bought me out at 112mil and I would have been on my way. I did this same thing with plexes today dropped em 5 million isk in 10 minutes or less. This time I did it a little differently because I figured that it would be a very hotly contested item. I set 4 sell orders of 2 each. That way I could mod one every minute to keep in front of everyone. I reduced the price modestly at first but then others started undercutting by significant amounts and I would undercut them by 250k at least.

This is a significant way to move markets. I am not even a trader but I would consider myself to be a forum warrior, I have been there for every significant business venture and every scam. I love it. Probably one of the reasons I still play the game. I was here when RAW23 was still a pup. I was here when Ray was a nice guy. I was here, when ricdic went down in flames. I was here for T4U and I hope to continue to be here for many years to come but I would like to participate more in MD rather then just reading.

Last night was my first experiment and first real post.

Love me or hate me I promise excitement.

Discordless
Posted - 2010.11.30 09:46:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Kazaam
Honestly I get what you are saying but, I didn't buy the item I used some old Lp to get it.

Originally by: Kazaam
Last night was my first experiment

Originally by: Cista2
To OP: thanks for the tip, I bought the implants that were for sale @ 100 mil isk. Buy orders are now at 107 mil.

Originally by: Cista2
And all sold again Wink

Looks to me like a failed experiment.

Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
Posted - 2010.11.30 11:18:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Cista2 on 30/11/2010 11:19:55

Originally by: Kazaam
I was here when RAW23 was still a pup.
RAW23 is still a pup. He is just a very rich pup.

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.11.30 12:30:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 30/11/2010 12:32:44

You didnt collapse the market you idiot, you just created a new one.
I must say though, i do this alot, its those that dont care abouyt profit vs those that do,
margin traders are the scum of EVE.
:P

Caldariftw123
Posted - 2010.11.30 12:57:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Kazaam
The purpose of this thread was to encourage others to move markets like I did with 1 implant.

They didn't realize they could have bought me out at 112mil and I would have been on my way. I did this same thing with plexes today dropped em 5 million isk in 10 minutes or less.



Love me or hate me I promise excitement.



You seem to be confused a bit here ..
1) Your purpose was to try and encourage other people to lose isk like you did?
2) Why would they buy you out at 112million isk, when they could have waited like Cista2 did and bought you out at 100mill?
3) Then you went on and made the same silly move with the plex market? Did you not learn the first time that lower price for everyone also means lower price for you?
5) Excitement, you mean ridicule?

(I skipped number 4 and went straight to number 5, I figure this duffer wont spot the difference anyway ho ho ho)

Syntax Errors
Amarr
Death Express
War and Pestilence
Posted - 2010.11.30 13:10:00 - [28]
 

indeed markets are a tedious thingy majig

Kazaam
Posted - 2010.11.30 17:15:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Caldariftw123
Originally by: Kazaam
The purpose of this thread was to encourage others to move markets like I did with 1 implant.

They didn't realize they could have bought me out at 112mil and I would have been on my way. I did this same thing with plexes today dropped em 5 million isk in 10 minutes or less.



Love me or hate me I promise excitement.




You seem to be confused a bit here ..
1) Your purpose was to try and encourage other people to lose isk like you did?
2) Why would they buy you out at 112million isk, when they could have waited like Cista2 did and bought you out at 100mill?
3) Then you went on and made the same silly move with the plex market? Did you not learn the first time that lower price for everyone also means lower price for you?
5) Excitement, you mean ridicule?

(I skipped number 4 and went straight to number 5, I figure this duffer wont spot the difference anyway ho ho ho)


LOL you just don't get it. I am not out to make money, by sitting there babysitting orders, I am out to grief you and anybody else who currently makes money at trading. If I lose 5 million on something but get enjoyment out of the suffering of traders like yourself then that is a 5 million well spent. Personally 5 million isn't even enough to wipe my A** with, I'd much rather see you cry MQQR and pretend like it doesn't hurt and call it ridicule. This isn't over, I am busy with RL right now but I am going to start a Movement.

"Did you not learn the first time that lower price for everyone also means lower price for you?"

You mad? Bro

Roguehalo
Caldari
Roguehalo Ship Brokers
Posted - 2010.11.30 17:24:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Kazaam
Originally by: Caldariftw123
Originally by: Kazaam
The purpose of this thread was to encourage others to move markets like I did with 1 implant.

They didn't realize they could have bought me out at 112mil and I would have been on my way. I did this same thing with plexes today dropped em 5 million isk in 10 minutes or less.



Love me or hate me I promise excitement.




You seem to be confused a bit here ..
1) Your purpose was to try and encourage other people to lose isk like you did?
2) Why would they buy you out at 112million isk, when they could have waited like Cista2 did and bought you out at 100mill?
3) Then you went on and made the same silly move with the plex market? Did you not learn the first time that lower price for everyone also means lower price for you?
5) Excitement, you mean ridicule?

(I skipped number 4 and went straight to number 5, I figure this duffer wont spot the difference anyway ho ho ho)


LOL you just don't get it. I am not out to make money, by sitting there babysitting orders, I am out to grief you and anybody else who currently makes money at trading. If I lose 5 million on something but get enjoyment out of the suffering of traders like yourself then that is a 5 million well spent. Personally 5 million isn't even enough to wipe my A** with, I'd much rather see you cry MQQR and pretend like it doesn't hurt and call it ridicule. This isn't over, I am busy with RL right now but I am going to start a Movement.

"Did you not learn the first time that lower price for everyone also means lower price for you?"

You mad? Bro


Traders couldn't care less about what happens to a specific item. Traders will have a basket of items ranging from 10 say to hundreds. Professional traders will have their operation set up such that wild price movements on a specific item will have negligible impact on their overall operation. Most would laugh their socks off at your pathetic 'griefing' including me Very Happy


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