open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked Market tradeing cant see how you make millions off it
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Author Topic

mill veters
Posted - 2010.11.28 08:10:00 - [1]
 

Hi, now im not asking you to tell me -how you do it, since im sure you dont whant to give away you $ income, but i seen and heard ppl make millions-billions off of it a day,

now im looking at it and i do see prices for thing that are low and buying price that are high,

but, i cant see where i could make any money from this, since its say selling at 200 and buying at 220 for only a few 1000 so only make about 20k for about 30+ minutes of work

(go buy them at location then move them to buying location)

question is, does it take you all day to do this (millions) or is thier some nack to this that im missing (and you gguy are relly market traders in real life Wink )


Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.11.28 08:26:00 - [2]
 


It takes a lot of guts, capital, some luck and insight in the market to make good money on a regular basis.

Basically, you see a hole in the market, an item is lower value then it should, or an item is expected to rise every soon. You buy massive amounts of it, and sell days/weeks after for more.

Sometimes you can make billions in a week, sometimes you can lose billions in a week.

It's like the Planetary interaction changes.

Before, the PI goods sold from npc's form low prices (below 1000), quite a few of us bought multi billions worth of those (myself 40B worth of pi goods). when the npc goods stopped being npc sold, and they had to be player made, prices skyrocked. I myself made only 20b off of it as I was impatient and didn't feel like waiting too long to kickstart another projected.

That's just one example though.

mill veters
Posted - 2010.11.28 08:38:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Guilliman R

It takes a lot of guts, capital, some luck and insight in the market to make good money on a regular basis.

Basically, you see a hole in the market, an item is lower value then it should, or an item is expected to rise every soon. You buy massive amounts of it, and sell days/weeks after for more.

Sometimes you can make billions in a week, sometimes you can lose billions in a week.

It's like the Planetary interaction changes.

Before, the PI goods sold from npc's form low prices (below 1000), quite a few of us bought multi billions worth of those (myself 40B worth of pi goods). when the npc goods stopped being npc sold, and they had to be player made, prices skyrocked. I myself made only 20b off of it as I was impatient and didn't feel like waiting too long to kickstart another projected.

That's just one example though.


Shocked i think ill leave that to you, Thanks for the information Very Happy bit too much work for meWink though i hope you have a great time doing itVery Happy

Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.11.28 08:40:00 - [4]
 


It's not hard to do per say, but you need money to make money. Especially if you're going to "push" markets in a certain direction. Need to be able to lose too :) because sometimes you will.

What I found best to make relativly easy money on trade was moving cheap goods from hub A to hub B. Takes a bit of work to find out which ones sell well and don't deviate too much. Generally I only bothered with items that had 15%+ profit margins.

mill veters
Posted - 2010.11.28 08:45:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: mill veters on 28/11/2010 08:46:29
Thanks again, but nah i cant see myself doing it, profesionaly like you,re self, cant see sitting thier working out all that, but honestly if you can do it -all credit to youVery Happy

Lmao, just relised that wasent a punWink

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2010.11.28 09:06:00 - [6]
 

one of the main ways of trading is to place buy orders in a station *cough*jita4-4*cough* wait until someone sells you the good, then relist your stock on the market in a sell order. it is kinda amazing the stuff people just "right click -> sell" in that station

Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2010.11.28 11:41:00 - [7]
 

It's not difficult, you just sit in a busy station like Jita and place buy orders for items. Then when you fill the buy orders, you sell the stock for 5 or 10% more. You should have a try at it, you might have fun Wink


Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.11.28 13:25:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 28/11/2010 13:43:42

Originally by: mill veters
make about 20k for about 30+ minutes of work (go buy them at location then move them to buying location)

That's not trading, that's hauling.
Might as well just pick up courier contracts instead, it usually pays better.

Trading is putting up your own buy orders, waiting for somebody to sell you cheap stuff, then putting up sell orders at a higher price with the stuff that was sold to you earlier.
You can insert hauling in between, but a lot of traders don't bother moving the product at all, buy and sell in the exact same location.

Originally by: thread title
Market tradeing cant see how you make millions off it

Let's have ONE example... say, Ballistic Control System II.
Jita buy is at around 728k/unit, Jita sell is at around 785k/unit, and there's at least 3k units being traded per day there.
With maxed-out skills and near-maxed standings (so broker fee would be 0.2% and tax 0.5%), putting buy orders up at 728k means you purchase them at 729,456, then putting a sell order at 785k costs you another 1,570 ISK per unit, and when sold, you also pay a 3,925 ISK per unit sales tax. Overall, you paid 734,951 and received 785,000, or a 50,049 ISK net gain. Now multiply that with 3000 units. Well, ok, 1500 since 3000 is the number of trades, and one item is traded twice by a trader, once at purchase, once at sale.
That's over 75 mil ISK right there. In one day. From ONE item type. And you can dabble in over a hundred items at a time, if you have the skills, funds and patience.
Of course, the competition is fierce and you won't get all trades, but still, that's the amount of potential profit to be had in one place for one of many items in a single day.

There's your missing millions, the ones you couldn't see...
...with loads of funds and insane patience, you could make BILLIONS with a single character in a single day through trade, while never even leaving the station.
When I say "insane" though, I really mean it. You'd have to be a freak (or a robot) to be able to juggle and update that many orders constantly.


P.S. There's also always the risk that your mere presence in the market will lower the margins, and some might try to manipulate you into overbidding on buys or underbidding on sales then either leave you with overpriced stocks or swipe your underpriced ones, but that's another story, one about the dangers of no-thought trading. You can lose ISK almost as easily as you can make ISK while trading carelessly.

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2010.11.28 14:51:00 - [9]
 

I'm waiting for the day we get auto-updating market orders and CCP supports bot-based trading before I bother making any significant inroads into the market.

Flattery
Posted - 2010.11.28 15:58:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: mill veters
Hi, now im not asking you to tell me -how you do it, since im sure you dont whant to give away you $ income, but i seen and heard ppl make millions-billions off of it a day,

now im looking at it and i do see prices for thing that are low and buying price that are high,

but, i cant see where i could make any money from this, since its say selling at 200 and buying at 220 for only a few 1000 so only make about 20k for about 30+ minutes of work

(go buy them at location then move them to buying location)

question is, does it take you all day to do this (millions) or is thier some nack to this that im missing (and you gguy are relly market traders in real life Wink )




That sounds like a very good first attempt. The one suggestion I would make is to find an item that sells for more then you pay for it.

August Persona
Posted - 2010.11.28 18:23:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: mill veters
but, i cant see where i could make any money from this, since its say selling at 200 and buying at 220 for only a few 1000 so only make about 20k for about 30+ minutes of work



Well, if you're smart, you can do a lot better than that. I'm a relatively low SP player as well, certainly no market genius and too timid to ever do as well as most of these guys, but if you give it a little thought, you can put yourself in a position to make a few million at least for maybe than an hour of hauling. And in a relatively low risk scenario.

Of course, as somebody else in this thread said, it does take money to make money. I had an opportunity to make about 5.5 million ISK in one shot last night with a total of about five jumps, but it would have cost me about 500 million just to pull it off. I did end up making about 2 million, but I had to make about three trips. Still, compared with my adventuring income, which is maybe 500,000 an hour, that wasn't bad.

Granted, I don't usually see opportunities quite that good. Usually, it's more in the range of around 100k-200k ISK per jump. At some point, I'll be a good enough pilot that this will seem pretty pathetic compared with what I can do missioning. But if you're new and need a little start-up scratch, there's some all right cash in short trip hauling.

Serene Python
Posted - 2010.11.28 22:49:00 - [12]
 

As others here have said give jita 4-4 a shot.

I station trade there myself and assuming I get 100% of the movement(which seldomly happens) I can net 441,280,160 profit per day on 25 items I'm trading... But that is the perfect amount realistically I make about 35,945,000 profit per day updating 2-3 times a day depending on my boredom.

If I had the funds I could make a lot more trading some other items I have, if you want I could shoot you some through a mail to help you get started. There's a lot of competition so don't expect it to be easy :P

Tehg Rhind
Posted - 2010.11.28 23:02:00 - [13]
 

You could try Jita but you may like a slightly less competitive market like Amarr. Your orders will last for more than a couple seconds here which will make you a little less crazy.

Also, there isn't necessarilly anything wrong with hauling. Every once in a while you'll see a really undervalued item being sold at a station just a couple jumps away. I pulled in a quick 20 mil on some ships by doing that the other day. But its more of a rarity.

The other thing to keep in mind is that volume is really important. This doesn't mean putting down one order for 10,000 units as much as it means putting down 50 different orders.

Even if you are only oulling in 1 mil a day on each order you are talking about some serious income. Really though its because a lot of items have a lot of noise in them(not a consistent money generator). Which would be a problem if you were just messing with one. If you are dealing in 50 noisy items, on the other hand, it actually becomes a lot more consistent.

Also, when someone tells you that the booster market is crashing, listen to them. I just re-started after a 5 month hiatus and am sitting on 200 catalyzed cold-gas arcjet thrusters....

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.11.28 23:36:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Kyra Felann on 29/11/2010 06:35:26
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: mill veters
make about 20k for about 30+ minutes of work (go buy them at location then move them to buying location)

That's not trading, that's hauling.


This is the main thing you're missing. It sounds like you're buying from someone else's sell orders, moving the goods, and selling it to someone else's buy orders. This is not what the people who make lots of money mean when they talk about trading.

You need to learn to set up your own buy/sell orders and then learn how to set them up intelligently. Then people will sell to you at any price you choose that's competitive and people will likewise buy from your sell orders and you can do this all from one station. Hint: you'll need to click the 'advanced' button on the buy/sell window to get access to all this. The simple view is for people who are impatient to offload loot or buy and fit a ship and those who don't understand how the market works, not for traders.

Look at the market details for any item that trades on the market. Sort the buy and sell orders by price with it high->low and low->high on the top and bottom respectively. See how in a given station the sell orders are always for a higher price than the buy orders at the same station? That gap is your potential area to make money.

You also need to get familiar with the price history tab and be able to read the graph and table forms. The graph is good for visually comparing price trends over time as well as seeing visually the gap between max and min prices. The table is good for seeing at exactly what prices it is actually traded and how many are traded per day.

Here are the very basic steps involved once you understand how buy/sell orders work as well as the price history tab.


  1. go to a market hub (Jita, Dodixie, Rens, and Amarr are the main ones for each empire)

  2. search the market for something where there is a decent gap between the highest buy order and the lowest sell order and with a decent daily volume

  3. set up a buy order just a little higher than the highest buy order in your station

  4. wait for the buy order to get you some stuff

  5. set up a sell order just a little lower than the lowest sell order in your station

  6. wait for the sell order to sell stuff

  7. Profit!


Note that you'll need to regularly check your orders and make sure they're still the lowest/highest in that station for them to do much good. People will compete with your orders as they try to make money off the same items.

mill veters
Posted - 2010.11.29 00:19:00 - [15]
 

wow, dident think it get all this information Shocked Thanks, you have given me a lot to think about (thanks to above) explaning it to me and how to Very Happy

Bruce Carraway
Posted - 2010.11.29 08:01:00 - [16]
 

everyone know the new hot thing is t2 short range ammo!

Discordless
Posted - 2010.11.29 08:06:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Bruce Carraway
everyone know the new hot thing is t2 short range ammo!

Waffles! Buy Waffles!

Danae Ori
Gallente
Ori Corporation
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:30:00 - [18]
 

Try something simple. When I first started trading, I bought T2 products from Jita and put them up for sale in remote-ish stations with decent quality lvl 3 and 4 agents at a good markup (50%+ at least). Sell a large spread of goods. I made something like 200m in my first week which was nice.

Master Flakattack
Posted - 2010.11.29 15:50:00 - [19]
 

A long time ago, in the system I mine in, as a test run I put up some mineral buy orders to see what would happen. I was surprised to see such a vigorous response, but I guess the bot miners don't like hauling lol. Anyway, I was able to use all these cheap minerals to build some ships, and I very quickly learned the error of my ways: I was mining to build. Having more ships/equipment in the oven at once is more important than having a super-massive margin on them. I sell my gear and ships now with a smaller margin on each one, but I make more money over time and I don't have to bust my balls mining all day to pull it off.

Naturally, I still mine to fill in the time between pickups/sell runs, and this keeps my margins up, but the point is if you want to make money you need to get creative and try to fill a niche.

Rasz Lin
Caldari
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
Posted - 2010.11.29 16:09:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Danae Ori
Try something simple. When I first started trading, I bought T2 products from Jita and put them up for sale in remote-ish stations with decent quality lvl 3 and 4 agents at a good markup (50%+ at least). Sell a large spread of goods. I made something like 200m in my first week which was nice.


This (with slight modifications) is how I started in EVE
I was born in January, This is February:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/466/clipboard01lo.png

Its a good place to start, but hauling like that doesnt scale very well. This is now (september was PVP month)
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3671/sepoctoberprofit.png


Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I'm waiting for the day we get auto-updating market orders and CCP supports bot-based trading before I bother making any significant inroads into the market.


Yes, in the mean time you invested in the Housing market, because houses NEVER depreciate!

Zelot Blueice
XTC Cartel
Posted - 2010.11.29 16:52:00 - [21]
 

Rasz that is some really good profit in 2nd graph.

Carl Stonewall
Caldari
Lager Institute
Consortium.
Posted - 2010.11.29 21:24:00 - [22]
 

Whoever told you he makes billions in one day speculating in EVE is lying i can tell you that much.
There is some mathmatical techniques that is used by traders on the real commodity markets that can be somewhat succesfully applied to EVE markets but it generally only pays off if you got a whole lot of capital that your willing to risk. 5billion is minimum i would say.

The problem with EVE markets is that there isent a whole lot of change in the game, prices are generally stable between patches the only time there is change in EVE, and when the markets in EVE mirror the commodity markets of the real world, is when a new patch comes out and yes there you can make a looot of isk if you have a very deep knowledge of the game and a good sense of business.


Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Warped Aggression
Posted - 2010.11.30 04:41:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Taram Caldar on 30/11/2010 04:42:13
Originally by: mill veters
Hi, now im not asking you to tell me -how you do it, since im sure you dont whant to give away you $ income, but i seen and heard ppl make millions-billions off of it a day,

now im looking at it and i do see prices for thing that are low and buying price that are high,

but, i cant see where i could make any money from this, since its say selling at 200 and buying at 220 for only a few 1000 so only make about 20k for about 30+ minutes of work

(go buy them at location then move them to buying location)

question is, does it take you all day to do this (millions) or is thier some nack to this that im missing (and you gguy are relly market traders in real life Wink )




Buy low
Sell high

It really, honestly, is just that simple. If you have proper skills you don't even have to find huge markup holes you can do it on very small percentages. The key is VOLUME if you are playing with low margins. If you have wide margins it's still volume but you don't need as much volume.

Bottom line: You can make millions within a couple weeks of starting. On a lark I taught myself how by creating an alt and training trade skills on it and using only the freebie starting isk she got I managed to get her over 200 million isk in a week or two. If I had the patience to market trade (I find it bloody mind numbing) I could easily make billions a month at it if I really wanted to. But, as I mentioned, I find market trading about as much fun as watching paint peel.... actually watching paint peel is more fun... if I'm the one peeling it... (I know, I'm odd).

Anyway... its definitely possible... it's not even particularly hard to do. Buy low. Sell High. Find markets that work for you and always keep an eye out for new ones in case the market shifts.

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.30 05:02:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Serene Python
As others here have said give jita 4-4 a shot.

I station trade there myself and assuming I get 100% of the movement(which seldomly happens) I can net 441,280,160 profit per day on 25 items I'm trading... But that is the perfect amount realistically I make about 35,945,000 profit per day updating 2-3 times a day depending on my boredom.

If I had the funds I could make a lot more trading some other items I have, if you want I could shoot you some through a mail to help you get started. There's a lot of competition so don't expect it to be easy :P


If you are feeling charitable, I wouldn't mind a mail with some help.

McCRAZY
Posted - 2010.11.30 10:48:00 - [25]
 

I personally trade based on current fotm pvp equipment (drakes next to 0.0 and stuff like that). This obviously requires a little understanding of what is going on in the game and where its going on. I have tried trading in jita as well but the time required to get any returns put me off a lot. Oh yeah and buy low sell high Smile

Aluka 7th
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.30 13:06:00 - [26]
 

Buy small, medium and large rigs from energy weapon, projectile weapon and hybrid weapon group in Amarr and sell them in Jita. 7 jump distance, ~5000ISK profit per m3.



 

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only