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UAxJusyFrut
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.26 02:00:00 - [1]
 

I was thinking about training for the black ops widow as I already have over 2 million points into electronics and specialized for ECM. I wondering how viable this boat is for group WH PVE/PVP.

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2010.11.26 07:56:00 - [2]
 

In a wormhole it would lose the only advantage it has: bridging stealthy fleets. So no, don't use it in a wh.

Tea Partier
Posted - 2010.11.26 09:32:00 - [3]
 

Due to the powerful bonus to ECM strength and an extra high slot and launcher slot, it's been known for a rare few to use them in WH's as the bait/primary ship. Black Ops III and you have a greater bonus to ECM strength in a Widow than BS V in a Scorpion. Anecdotally, I've heard they work really well in a WH.

Pro's:
-High ECM strength bonus
-8 midslots for tank and ECM
-Better shield resist base than a Scorpion.

Con's:
-Frickin expensive(you live in a WH though so not really)
-Takes a long time to train up
-Doesn't have the ECM range bonuses of a Scorpion
-All sleepers will primary you

MegabitOne
Caldari
The Black Ops
Posted - 2010.11.26 11:58:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: UAxJusyFrut
I was thinking about training for the black ops widow as I already have over 2 million points into electronics and specialized for ECM. I wondering how viable this boat is for group WH PVE/PVP.

I don't think 2m sp is anywhere near enough to put yourself in a Widow. You wouldn't do it justice...
Your 2m sp is better spent in a Blackbird, but as the people above stated, you can't use its ewar on sleepers Confused

Brian Ballsack
Posted - 2010.11.26 13:47:00 - [5]
 

dont even touch it with 2 mil SP.

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2010.11.26 14:10:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: MegabitOne
you can't use its ewar on sleepers Confused


wait what?

Slade Hoo
Amarr
Retired Gunslingers
Posted - 2010.11.26 14:58:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Slade Hoo on 26/11/2010 14:59:21
The Widow has two advantages....Jamming strength and BS-sized weapons/tank.
If you need a jammer that jams as good as a rook/falcon and want to deal more damage than rook while having much more tanking capabilities, then the Widow is a good thing. It has much lower scan resolution though.

But it costs like 5 times as much a a rook so you have to ask yourself if a widow is worth training for (remember: you need Black Ops skill at level 5 (Rank 10) to jam as good as a rook on recon 5) and worth the costs.

Naomi Noxx
Posted - 2010.11.26 16:14:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: MegabitOne
Originally by: UAxJusyFrut
I was thinking about training for the black ops widow as I already have over 2 million points into electronics and specialized for ECM. I wondering how viable this boat is for group WH PVE/PVP.

I don't think 2m sp is anywhere near enough to put yourself in a Widow. You wouldn't do it justice...
Your 2m sp is better spent in a Blackbird, but as the people above stated, you can't use its ewar on sleepers Confused


I'm pretty sure you just totally failed reading the OP. He said he has 2 million points INTO ELECTRONICS SKILLS, not altogether.

MegabitOne
Caldari
The Black Ops
Posted - 2010.12.16 12:15:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Naomi Noxx
Originally by: MegabitOne
Originally by: UAxJusyFrut
I was thinking about training for the black ops widow as I already have over 2 million points into electronics and specialized for ECM. I wondering how viable this boat is for group WH PVE/PVP.

I don't think 2m sp is anywhere near enough to put yourself in a Widow. You wouldn't do it justice...
Your 2m sp is better spent in a Blackbird, but as the people above stated, you can't use its ewar on sleepers Confused


I'm pretty sure you just totally failed reading the OP. He said he has 2 million points INTO ELECTRONICS SKILLS, not altogether.

No no, I understood it correctly. I have 18.176.000 in electronics, so what? Doesn't mean I win all my jams either, although I stand a better chance of course ;-)
Trust me if I'm saying that 2 million is a good start but wouldn't do justice to a Widow...
If the OP is interested, he can contact me and ask for some learning plans...

Pinky Starstrider
Posted - 2010.12.16 13:35:00 - [10]
 

Isn't there only like 4 skills that affect ECM, so 2 mil would be pretty close to capping ECM. and Hell in a BS you don't even need reduced CAP/cycle. Don't really need falloff capped in PVE, at most you really only need 2/3 skills @ 5 for an ecm boat. So Id say he could do the widow justice, since nothing else in electronics really matters a whole hell of a lot.

Skills affecting:
Electronic Warfare - 5% Reduction to capacitor need per skill level. (doesn't need @5)
Signal Dispersion - 5% bonus to strength of all ECM jammers per skill level.
Long Distance Jamming - 10% bonus to optimal range per skill level.
Frequency Modulation - 10% bonus to falloff per skill level. (doesn't really [email protected])

what we see here is a grand total of 2 skills that are actually worth a damn, 1 skill that is somewhat useful, and 1 that is overly redundant.

If 2mil in electronics is devoted entirely to this, you can cap the 2 important ones and still have SP to spend.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2010.12.16 13:57:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Pinky Starstrider
Isn't there only like 4 skills that affect ECM, so 2 mil would be pretty close to capping ECM. and Hell in a BS you don't even need reduced CAP/cycle. Don't really need falloff capped in PVE, at most you really only need 2/3 skills @ 5 for an ecm boat. So Id say he could do the widow justice, since nothing else in electronics really matters a whole hell of a lot.

Skills affecting:
Electronic Warfare - 5% Reduction to capacitor need per skill level. (doesn't need @5)
Signal Dispersion - 5% bonus to strength of all ECM jammers per skill level.
Long Distance Jamming - 10% bonus to optimal range per skill level.
Frequency Modulation - 10% bonus to falloff per skill level. (doesn't really [email protected])

what we see here is a grand total of 2 skills that are actually worth a damn, 1 skill that is somewhat useful, and 1 that is overly redundant.

If 2mil in electronics is devoted entirely to this, you can cap the 2 important ones and still have SP to spend.


Problem is though, that he would not spend those skills on Electronics section but to be able to sit in Widow hull. And there is more to flying proper ECM platfrom than only learning skills that affect ECM directly. Targeting, Multitasking, lock range, lock speed to name a few essential ones for a start.

If you really desire to be a ECM pilot put those skillpoints into Support skills and Caldary Battleship (or into Falcon) and and start with a Scorpion or Falcon/Blackbird for a start.

Scorpion IS basically widow without jump engine. You will not need a jump engine in WH.

Tarn Reis
Posted - 2010.12.16 19:01:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Carniflex
Problem is though, that he would not spend those skills on Electronics section but to be able to sit in Widow hull. And there is more to flying proper ECM platfrom than only learning skills that affect ECM directly. Targeting, Multitasking, lock range, lock speed to name a few essential ones for a start.

If you really desire to be a ECM pilot put those skillpoints into Support skills and Caldary Battleship (or into Falcon) and and start with a Scorpion or Falcon/Blackbird for a start.

Scorpion IS basically widow without jump engine. You will not need a jump engine in WH.


This.
Hell, I have THREE million SP in Electronics and I'm not about to jump into a falcon, Let alone a widow. 2M in Electronics just isn't much, when you consider all the other, also mandatory, electronics skills you should have.

For perspective, Electronics, Signature Analysis, Targeting, and Long-Range Targetting to 5, along with Cloaking 4 (needed to train Black Ops) nets you 1.6 or 1.7 million SP alone. Add in, say, Electronic Upgrades 5, and you are well over 2 million SP in electronics. And that's without any ECM skills. So... Yeah. I'd hold off jumping into a billion isk ship you don't really have the skills to utilize.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2010.12.16 20:35:00 - [13]
 

Black Ops are not billion isk ships anymore. I got a Widow two weeks ago for 432m isk. Prices have even fallen a bit since then. They're roughly double the cost of a Field Command ship.

Pinky Starstrider
Posted - 2010.12.16 21:23:00 - [14]
 

also i think this was for PVE and not PVP. Basically if he can fit a tank, fit ECM mods, fit DPS, he can fly his widow all he wants.

Tarn Reis
Posted - 2010.12.16 22:02:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Black Ops are not billion isk ships anymore. I got a Widow two weeks ago for 432m isk. Prices have even fallen a bit since then. They're roughly double the cost of a Field Command ship.



No ****? I guess I haven't really looked at them in the last year. I just remember taking a look at their price, asking a few questions, and decided there were much better ships to set my sights on.

Still, I believe he's taking one hell of a risk jumping into an expensive ship he seems to have only the minimum skills for. It's his risk to take, of course, but in his place I wouldn't get into it yet.


 

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