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blankseplocked The new changes, Veteran hell?
 
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heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2010.11.29 14:19:00 - [181]
 

VEt here, liking the change, really irratates me when people compare this adults game with wow, a kids game.

nartela
Posted - 2010.11.29 14:30:00 - [182]
 

Edited by: nartela on 29/11/2010 14:31:54
another good move by ccp in my opinion, another victory against the elitest gits who think that just because they started the game sooner they should be given even more.
why shouldnt ccp work towards getting more players its there fricking game, you dont like it then jog on. the more whiny gits that leave the better, advancment is never a bad thing.

Javajunky
Posted - 2010.11.29 15:00:00 - [183]
 

Dumbasses, don't realize this is a solid business decision and Eve needs to make more money to grow and survive in a competitive landscape.

The metric you need to watch is not the whiners who leave the game.

The metric you need to watch is the number of trial accounts that remain in the game. That in a nutshell is all that should matter to everyone, this in no way makes the game easier. This removes a barrier for new players to get into more aspects of the game besides running courier missions for the first month while learning skills get done.

Dr Fighter
Posted - 2010.11.29 15:08:00 - [184]
 

Originally by: nartela
elitest gits who think that just because they started the game sooner they should be given even more.


No the VETS (like me) can be a bit frustrated because newbs are getting to cut corner that were unavoidable to us.

We dont expect to be GIVEN somthing, its a little upsetting when somthing once that was worked hard for, or took alot of time is now non existance.

Vets are still ahead and will remain ahead, I for one do not have an issue but im sensitive to those tho do think they have been 'robbed' a little.

Its like being abused as a child (or some other horrific unpleasnt, growth imparing, memory) and getting over it, then be unhappy when others dont have the same issues.

Im glad newbs wont have to suffer this stupid irrational pain, more newbs in ships they dont know how to use, for me to blow up frankly.

Joel McBeth
Caldari
Involuntary Sub-Saharan Crowdsourcing
Posted - 2010.11.29 15:29:00 - [185]
 

Edited by: Joel McBeth on 29/11/2010 15:29:33
So, should CCP retroactively give you SP because you didn't want train the learning skills to 5/5? Is that what you're asking? Cause I didn't care enough to read your whole post.

nartela
Posted - 2010.11.29 16:16:00 - [186]
 

Originally by: Dr Fighter
Originally by: nartela
elitest gits who think that just because they started the game sooner they should be given even more.


No the VETS (like me) can be a bit frustrated because newbs are getting to cut corner that were unavoidable to us.

We dont expect to be GIVEN somthing, its a little upsetting when somthing once that was worked hard for, or took alot of time is now non existance.

Vets are still ahead and will remain ahead, I for one do not have an issue but im sensitive to those tho do think they have been 'robbed' a little.

Its like being abused as a child (or some other horrific unpleasnt, growth imparing, memory) and getting over it, then be unhappy when others dont have the same issues.

Im glad newbs wont have to suffer this stupid irrational pain, more newbs in ships they dont know how to use, for me to blow up frankly.


sorry was early in the morning and a bit ****ed off when i wrote that, what i meant to say is that its not a big change and it needed to be done to improve the game in the long run.
people say that training the learning skills was a choice, but really its no choice at alll upon starting the game your told by almost evry1 to train them and have almost 0 progressioon when first playing.
this change will allow ne players to actualy play eve as soon as they start, instead of having to wait a month for learning skills.


DDemon
Volatile Instability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
Posted - 2010.11.29 16:31:00 - [187]
 

Hi, I've got close to 90mil sp, So I consider myself a vet.

My opinion on this matter? FINALLY OMFG ABOUT TIME %$#@$%#@!!!!11!
My opinion about people complaining about this dummying the game down?

How on earth would removing a time sink, a 3month time sink dumb down the game??
Because thats what it was, a time sink.

Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.11.29 16:34:00 - [188]
 

Rolling Eyes

SurrenderMonkey
Posted - 2010.11.29 16:36:00 - [189]
 

What a bunch of mewling candyasses.

Quick, someone tell us how you used to walk two miles through the snow, uphill both ways, to get to school. Rolling Eyes

Infants.

Jenn aSide
Posted - 2010.11.29 16:58:00 - [190]
 

Originally by: SurrenderMonkey

Quick, someone tell us how you used to walk two miles through the snow, uphill both ways, to get to school. Rolling Eyes


Ok, I used to walk 2 miles through the snow to get to the bus stop to get on the bus to get to school, but the bus was always broke dwon so we had to push it to the school, in our bare feet, uphill. Plus the Bus had no wheels!

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.29 17:06:00 - [191]
 

Originally by: Jenn aSide
Originally by: SurrenderMonkey

Quick, someone tell us how you used to walk two miles through the snow, uphill both ways, to get to school. Rolling Eyes


Ok, I used to walk 2 miles through the snow to get to the bus stop to get on the bus to get to school, but the bus was always broke dwon so we had to push it to the school, in our bare feet, uphill. Plus the Bus had no wheels!


You forgot to mention how you now oppose fixing the bus because pushing it every morning builds character.

Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.11.29 17:32:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: SurrenderMonkey
What a bunch of mewling candyasses.

Quick, someone tell us how you used to walk two miles through the snow, uphill both ways, to get to school. Rolling Eyes

Infants.


To be fair, I lived about two miles from the middle and high schools, there were no free busses since the town was so small, and we rarely closed for snow. Not sure if it was uphill both ways though :)

A better Eve example would be 15 KILOMETERS! TO EVERYTHING! etc etc etc. ;)

Cataca
Posted - 2010.11.29 17:50:00 - [193]
 

I seriously dont get why some vets are so scared about new players heaving a faster start (or not being scared away by the incredibly stupid idea to train stuff to train faster). They will be able to train basic support skills and a frig to a half decent level with the training bonus instead, big deal.

And it doesnt make you "hardened" that you had to "fight" for your training skills and "didnt get them handed on a silver platter". It makes you look like a little schoolgirl, whining cause they have it easier. HTFU, as you guys would say.

also, mmmmh vet tears, must be the same as old wine, it seems that much better

Ehdward
Caldari
Nex Exercitus
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.11.29 21:04:00 - [194]
 

CCP should stop making their game better. We don't want more people coming into our private internet spaceship club.

Maria Martillo
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.29 21:51:00 - [195]
 

this is not a big move, but one of many (some of them good indeed)done by CCP in order to get big numbers.

Only time will tell, but EvE "was" a niche game.The Risk that CCP is facing may be to make an easier, less hostile and quick game...

But, in a game of this kind, the easier you get it, the easier you get bored.
The sensation of hard but satisfaying objectives is getting loss

so, at the end...more people standing less time in game, cause they get bored because is more difficult to satisfy them again and again whith shiny toys..

will see....

P.S. In fact, this is NOT a whine, only a vision of how things can evolve.
Growing in bussines is not easy, sometimes less is more, CCP is focusing in hear the youngest players who are seeking insta-satisfaction in order to make bigger numbers.

hope they are not wrong in the long run...the higer you climb, the harder you fall

Seeing new games maked by so small companies, like perpetuum, with the "old eve" philosophy, it could make things harder, at the end, for the new Eve.


- yeaahh, my english sucks, but i don't care....

Sieges
Posted - 2010.11.29 22:07:00 - [196]
 

I have all of mine to 5/4 and am looking forward to reallocating those SPs to some fun stuff.

Uncle Fester
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.11.29 22:31:00 - [197]
 

Bitter vets will always be bitter vets, change is welcome in my book.

So what if noobs get a helping hand with skills, its not like they have contacts vets have, the markets they might have cornered, experience leading hundreds into combat, bpo libraries and what ever other shinnies we hoard.

But bitter vets will always be bitter vets.Rolling Eyes

Captain Mung
Posted - 2010.11.29 23:11:00 - [198]
 

Edited by: Captain Mung on 29/11/2010 23:12:50
Good god the amount of whining because of removal of learning skills is ridiculous.

The whiners need to get the sand out of their vagina and realize EVERYONE benefits from this change.

The people who will see a reduction in training speed will at most, see a 72 SP/hr reduction, which at a MINIMUM would take 3.65 years training ONLY skills that the two attributes you've remapped to maximize as primary and secondary to see any deficit in SP (Minimum being: ONLY had two attributes at 5/5, and Learning at 5, all rest at 0/0, meaning an SP refund of ~2.3m). That 3.65 years at 2700 SP/hr (the new upper limit) translates into 86.4m SP.

If we assume a character has remapped for Per/Wil (for an old limit of 2772 SP/hr and a new limit of 2700 SP/hr in Gunnery, T1 Spaceship command, etc.), that would mean that character would be able to nearly max out ALL T1 spaceship command skills (89.0m), OR ALL Gunnery (45.6m) and ALL Missile Skills (24.0m) and nearly max out all generic and all racial T1 spaceship command skills for one race (30.7m) -- before seeing a deficit. Remember this is the highly unlikely minimum time to see a deficit (mentioned above).

In the more likely situation that a character has 5/4 (as my main does) or 5/5 learning skills, the time to see any deficit is even larger (6.48 years and 8.52 years respectively). The former sees a reduction of 39 SP/hr and the latter still sees a reduction of 72 SP/hr (still assuming they have attributes remapped correctly and are skilling skills that will give them the maximum training speed, in this case Per/Wil skills). This correlates to 153.2m SP gained for the former and 201.5m SP gained for the latter. This means that the character with 5/5 skills will never reach that deficit as the total amount of SP one can have in Per/Wil skills is 160.8m and that the character with 5/4 skills will see a deficit for less than 4 months of training time (assuming they want to trail ALL Per/Will skills available until they have them all at level 5 before training anything else).

These are extreme cases, every other scenario falls in between. In the much more likely situation where characters train a range of skills (focusing on the ones that have primary/secondary attributes that match the ones they've mapped, but also training other skills), most characters will likely NEVER see a deficit.

I believe that Per/Wil skills have the biggest SP pool (160,768,000), followed by Int/Mem (142,592,000) and therefore any char remapped for anything other than Per/Wil and training those respective skills would see ZERO deficit.

As for the special needs person that started this thread who has 4/4 learning skills, they will never see any deficit no matter what they train, ever. This person is probably just looking for a reason to whine as the sand in his/her vagina is getting way too itchy.





TLDR: Everyone benefits from this change, the only people that will see any deficit will see it in 6 and a half years and that deficit will only last less than 4 months of training time and will result from a very unlikely situation.


Complaining about it being "not fair" when you are receiving only benefits with this change is idiotic.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.11.29 23:44:00 - [199]
 

Edited by: Avon on 29/11/2010 23:46:52
Originally by: Cataca
I seriously dont get why some vets are so scared about new players heaving a faster start (or not being scared away by the incredibly stupid idea to train stuff to train faster). They will be able to train basic support skills and a frig to a half decent level with the training bonus instead, big deal.

And it doesnt make you "hardened" that you had to "fight" for your training skills and "didnt get them handed on a silver platter". It makes you look like a little schoolgirl, whining cause they have it easier. HTFU, as you guys would say.

also, mmmmh vet tears, must be the same as old wine, it seems that much better


Actually it will take longer for people to get support skills than it did with the old character creation system (where you started with 800k or so XP) + didn't the blog state the training bonus was being removed?

Personally I could care less about the removal of the learning skills - sure it irks me that people are getting something that I had to spend time training, but I get the SP back, so meh. I guess it is a little annoying that people are getting more attribute points than was even possible when I started playing (advanced learning skills weren't available then), but then there are so many more things for people to train now.

The problem with learning skills was mostly due to the bad advice given to new players by "experts".

Personally I think the changes to the character creation system were far more of a dumbing down of Eve than the removal of skillpoints - all it seems to be now is an avatar selection system.

CCP have a tough job on their hands trying to make Eve more accessible without making it feel like the game is losing some of the complexity which appealed greatly to the older players when they joined.

They have probably got it about right this time, but some of the previous changes have been a step in the wrong direction.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.11.30 00:02:00 - [200]
 

I'm an old vet and I already gave up on this game. I quit and come back several times, without much enthusiasm. I lost all faith in CCP and have 0 respect left for them. Because they took something great and continuously made it worse. The golden era of this game has come and gone

That said, however, I don't consider these learning skill changes a bad move. While I see how it simplifies the game, thus dumbing it down a little, it doesn't effect the important issues - space ship combat and war strategy. The core of the game.

Ironically, this is one of the few things CCP shouldn't be demonized for.


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