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Vicker Lahn'se
Minmatar
STRAG3S
Posted - 2010.11.24 16:47:00 - [1]
 

Why am I only allowed to copy five bookmarks at a time? When will we get a better system for duplicating bookmarks?

How about allowing us to transfer a folder full of bookmarks as a single item? Perhaps allow us to copy them into our personal bookmarks without destroying the item?

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2010.11.24 16:53:00 - [2]
 

because of DB issues
you make prismX cry

in most cases you don't need 100's of BM's to be copied

BloodHound MMIII
Posted - 2010.11.24 16:54:00 - [3]
 

Maybe this blog will help explain a little.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=248

Vak'ran
TUIG Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.24 16:57:00 - [4]
 

history lesson for the new kids:

In the past, before warp-to-0km, we always landed 15km off a destination. To combat this, people made bookmarks 15km past the target, from every direction, to every destination. As this took some time and effort to do, a vivid marketplace existed for these BM packages, usually in the size of 'all gates in region x'. To make the packages, lots of BMs were copied, people left the copying going on overnight, etc. Unholy lag ensued. The problem was partly solved by letting people warp to zero. But lots of BP copying still strains the server and the limit is to ensure people don't go copying all their bookmarks to frustrate the blobwars, as hamsters are not cheap.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.24 16:58:00 - [5]
 

To discourage you from making bookmarks and sharing them between characters basically.

The limit of five came in years and years ago as a way of nerfing the spread of instajumps (no warp to zero then). People used to sell regional packs of instajumps and it all went a bit wobbly for CCP.

Now? I suspect its simply that nobody has revisited the limit of five at a time. Hell I come across people every day who think that bookmarks are useless outside wormholes Rolling Eyes so I don't think most of the Empire-based players use them at all.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2010.11.24 16:59:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Vak'ran
history lesson for the new kids:

In the past, before warp-to-0km, we always landed 15km off a destination. To combat this, people made bookmarks 15km past the target, from every direction, to every destination. As this took some time and effort to do, a vivid marketplace existed for these BM packages, usually in the size of 'all gates in region x'. To make the packages, lots of BMs were copied, people left the copying going on overnight, etc. Unholy lag ensued. The problem was partly solved by letting people warp to zero. But lots of BP copying still strains the server and the limit is to ensure people don't go copying all their bookmarks to frustrate the blobwars, as hamsters are not cheap.


Brings back memories though.
I made a fair bit selling "Insta Highways" that I made for myself using an interceptor.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.24 17:04:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Culmen

Brings back memories though.
I made a fair bit selling "Insta Highways" that I made for myself using an interceptor.


I had instas all the way from Devoid to Tenerifis (map looked a lot different then). Used to haul down a couple of big cans with ammo down and stay for a week or so (no stations). When the cans were full of loot head back the other way in the indy.

Only worry was the jump-in. Long time ago now Very Happy

Punker Adagear
Posted - 2010.11.24 17:25:00 - [8]
 

i used to have so many instas but i hated the fact that when you needed to reistall the client or it messed up for a reason all the folders you made dissapeard so you had to recreate them... was a pain in the a**

When red alliance started copying a load of the systems in 0.0 started lagging like mad you couldnt do anything, I have to admit tho it gets quiet annoying in WH when your trying to copy a route but you can only do 5 at a time,

but no lag is better right

heheheh
Phoenix Club
Posted - 2010.11.24 17:45:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: heheheh on 24/11/2010 17:45:18
As you probably read already, back in the day, you could copy as many as you wanted, but it wasnt better due to lag.
Also the guys that used to make money making insta BMs were all suckers !!
just copy any old 300 BMs and sell them as a region set via escrow, no need to actually make bms :P

PCaBoo
Ammo and Tag
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.11.24 18:00:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Culmen


Brings back memories though.
I made a fair bit selling "Insta Highways" that I made for myself using an interceptor.

I'd buy them, copy them, and resell them. It was pretty funny to insert random ones in "home" systems, that warped them to your pos.
BM bombs were also, moderately funny.

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.11.24 19:51:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Othran
To discourage you from making bookmarks and sharing them between characters basically.

The limit of five came in years and years ago as a way of nerfing the spread of instajumps (no warp to zero then). People used to sell regional packs of instajumps and it all went a bit wobbly for CCP.

Now? I suspect its simply that nobody has revisited the limit of five at a time. Hell I come across people every day who think that bookmarks are useless outside wormholes Rolling Eyes so I don't think most of the Empire-based players use them at all.


Bookmarks are good for salvaging missions, gates gone after turning in mission so can use MWD. Another is exploration. A third is bookmarking stations in case you get lazy and can't be bothered to open map and type in systems name (yes, I am lazy).

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.11.24 21:11:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 24/11/2010 21:19:42
Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se
Why am I only allowed to copy five bookmarks at a time? When will we get a better system for duplicating bookmarks?
*snip*

Man, you made me laugh out loud there..

Btw.. there was a CSM questionaire where you could vote for corporation/alliance bookmarks, so they could push CCP for putting it in their que for things to add to the game.. should have voted as I did ;-)

Originally by: Tarasina
*snip*
A third is bookmarking stations in case you get lazy and can't be bothered to open map and type in systems name (yes, I am lazy).

I use bookmarking of stations to find the right one without the need to open either 'assets' or remembering the name from the overview.. rclick and 'base > dock' is just so more convinient Wink

Also, don't forget all those instaUNDOCK bookmarks for those hubs.

And.. I'm sure, that's where the most permanent bookmarks are done for these days.. GateScanSafeSpots.
I usually fly around in an interceptor and make bookmarks around 1,000-1,500km away from any gate in nullsec (avoid directions of celestials, stations, other gates) and use them to warp there instead of the gate itself.
Then you can scan the gate for bubbles first (with the 5deg dscan you can even check if your direct route is free of bubbles!). Cool

Vicker Lahn'se
Minmatar
STRAG3S
Posted - 2010.11.29 09:47:00 - [13]
 

Okay, let me clarify things a little bit.

I live in a wormhole.

The first thing I do when I log in is go to the corporation container and copy 30 bookmarks into my bookmarks so that I have the day's scouting results. If the bookmarks are out of date, I grab my probing character, probe stuff out, and drop the bookmarks in the can. This occurs daily for everybody in the corporation because the locations of everything change every day.

We're supposed to be flying around high tech space ships for crying out loud. Why can't I just transmit the coordinates to somebody, without having to give them a physical item?

Here's an idea: corporation wide bookmarks

One person makes the bookmark and then the bookmark is saved in the database as being available to everyone in the corporation. No needlessly copying bookmarks for each individual corporation member.

CCP Prism X


Gallente
C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.29 10:56:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se
Okay, let me clarify things a little bit.
I live in a wormhole.
corporation wide bookmarks



I sympathize wholeheartedly. Fact of the matter is that the bookmark system was designed a long long time ago well before the coming of wormhole space. It was patched again and again and then nerfed (cause I cry a lot and nobody likes crying grown men and my beard kinda makes me look like a grown-up), given a few wedgies and nipple-twisters and thus reached the state it is currently in.

That being said, giving you corporation bookmarks ranks second on the crowdsourced CSM priority list and given the internal momentum behind the CSM I wouldn't be too surprised to see some action taken on it. Especially with visible community backing on the CSM forums. In that case we'd also (most proably) remove the need to create physical bookmarks to begin with as the change is huge enough to warrant a complete DB overhaul and retaining silly and immersion breaking procedures is.. silly and immersion breaking.

But of course I, as an EVE-Software database developer, cannot promise you anything on behalf of our Project Board. I'm only posting to notify you of both the CSM and CCP being aware of this issue for the sake of this transparency thingie.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:39:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Black Dranzer on 29/11/2010 11:45:10
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se
Okay, let me clarify things a little bit.
I live in a wormhole.
corporation wide bookmarks



I sympathize wholeheartedly. Fact of the matter is that the bookmark system was designed a long long time ago well before the coming of wormhole space. It was patched again and again and then nerfed (cause I cry a lot and nobody likes crying grown men and my beard kinda makes me look like a grown-up), given a few wedgies and nipple-twisters and thus reached the state it is currently in.

That being said, giving you corporation bookmarks ranks second on the crowdsourced CSM priority list and given the internal momentum behind the CSM I wouldn't be too surprised to see some action taken on it. Especially with visible community backing on the CSM forums. In that case we'd also (most proably) remove the need to create physical bookmarks to begin with as the change is huge enough to warrant a complete DB overhaul and retaining silly and immersion breaking procedures is.. silly and immersion breaking.

But of course I, as an EVE-Software database developer, cannot promise you anything on behalf of our Project Board. I'm only posting to notify you of both the CSM and CCP being aware of this issue for the sake of this transparency thingie.


CCP PRISM CONFIRMS CORP BOOKMARKS BY CHRISTMAS, STORY AT 11

CCP Prism X


Gallente
C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:42:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: CCP Prism X on 29/11/2010 11:43:12
Originally by: Black Dranzer
CCP PRISM CONFIRMS CORP BOOKMARKS BY CHRISTMAS, STORY AT 11


That really isn't funny.
Best case, someone laughs.
Worst case, someone believes you and starts spreading rumors.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:43:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Black Dranzer
CCP PRISM CONFIRMS CORP BOOKMARKS BY CHRISTMAS, STORY AT 11


That really isn't funny.


I beg to differ, good Sir

CCP Prism X


Gallente
C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:44:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Black Dranzer
CCP PRISM CONFIRMS CORP BOOKMARKS BY CHRISTMAS, STORY AT 11


That really isn't funny.


I beg to differ, good Sir


That's because you're not the one that will suffer from people only reading this post.

Black Dranzer
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:46:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Black Dranzer on 29/11/2010 11:48:30
Edited by: Black Dranzer on 29/11/2010 11:46:43
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Edited by: CCP Prism X on 29/11/2010 11:43:12
Originally by: Black Dranzer
CCP PRISM CONFIRMS CORP BOOKMARKS BY CHRISTMAS, STORY AT 11


That really isn't funny.
Best case, someone laughs.
Worst case, someone believes you and starts spreading rumors.


Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I know enough about management to know that being taken out of context is a horrible, horrible fear.

Edited it.

I feel really bad now :(

Rian O'Shea
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:48:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Rian O''Shea on 29/11/2010 11:54:47
Originally by: Black Dranzer
CCP PRISM CONFIRMS CORP BOOKMARKS BY CHRISTMAS, STORY AT 11


Lets all thank Prism X for taking action regarding this issue, we are happy that he announced the exact changes which will come to the game and agree with him that this should be done in a timely manner. We accept his personal reassurance that these changes will make it into the game shortly (rather than soon™) and look forward to holding him accountable when something happens and said features do NOT, exactly as he specified and within the time frame, make it onto TQ.

Again, thank you Prism X for being candid and open on the forums sticking your neck out. We're due for a good lynching Twisted Evil


Thou shalt not pinkify me good sir!

CCP Prism X


Gallente
C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:49:00 - [21]
 

Cheers sir!

Just so that I'm not perceived as some soulless monster: I did chuckle myself. I've just burnt myself over and over again for using humor rather than straight-down-to-earth-and-boring-as-hell language in electronic communications. Doesn't seem to carry well across the wire. Wink

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:52:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: CCP Prism X
Edited by: CCP Prism X on 29/11/2010 11:43:12
Originally by: Black Dranzer
CCP PRISM CONFIRMS CORP BOOKMARKS BY CHRISTMAS, STORY AT 11


That really isn't funny.
Best case, someone laughs.
Worst case, someone believes you and starts spreading rumors.
When you do explore the new bookmarking system, please keep in mind fleet battles and that the ability to "Share/Send" bookmarks to enemy fleets may cause some rather un-fun situations.

If mass bookmarks are allowed (corp bookmarks for example), please do not allow these to be copied.

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2010.11.29 11:59:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 29/11/2010 11:59:23
My post got pinkified. I'm not quite sure how to take that, to be honest.

CCP Prism X


Gallente
C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.29 12:02:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 29/11/2010 11:59:23
My post got pinkified. I'm not quite sure how to take that, to be honest.


Just think of it as a Dev-hug.
It's a reference to a little thing I did to Tarminic who, quite sadly, no longer posts here.
So you can think of it as me dressing you up like Tarminic... Laughing

Rian O'Shea
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.29 12:03:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 29/11/2010 11:59:23
My post got pinkified. I'm not quite sure how to take that, to be honest.


I got the same treatment but valiantly stood up to the pinkifying and changed back to pure manliness.

FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2010.11.29 12:04:00 - [26]
 

what always surprised me is that why copying BM was so slow and created load on DB. What's the deal with that, shouldn't it be simple to copy a set of coordinates?

CCP Prism X


Gallente
C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.29 12:05:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Rian O'Shea
Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 29/11/2010 11:59:23
My post got pinkified. I'm not quite sure how to take that, to be honest.


I got the same treatment but valiantly stood up to the pinkifying and changed back to pure manliness.


It's all cool. I'm used to my love being rejected.

Buga Buga
ROMANIA Renegades
ROMANIAN-LEGION
Posted - 2010.11.29 12:13:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Buga Buga on 29/11/2010 12:13:37
Hey Confused get back to work Confused


Also, you said nipple ConfusedConfusedConfused

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.11.29 12:13:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: FlameGlow
what always surprised me is that why copying BM was so slow and created load on DB. What's the deal with that, shouldn't it be simple to copy a set of coordinates?
I'm curious as to why re-sizing a chat window causes the entire client to "pause". In high CPU circumstances like fleet battles, re-sizing a chat window can potentially cause complete client lock-ups. Or, intermittently, trying to change tabs on your stacked chat windows will sometimes stick that tab and you'll be dragging it all over the screen.

Or even worse... Incoming chat messages during high lag situations. You can force someone else to completely lag out as the new chat window near freezes the client.

I too am worried about the bookmark copying, but I think there are other "issues" in eve that are still needing work.

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2010.11.29 12:34:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Blane Xero on 29/11/2010 12:34:46
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 29/11/2010 11:59:23
My post got pinkified. I'm not quite sure how to take that, to be honest.


Just think of it as a Dev-hug.
It's a reference to a little thing I did to Tarminic who, quite sadly, no longer posts here.
So you can think of it as me dressing you up like Tarminic... Laughing
I miss Tarminic... Genuinely awesome dude.

Originally by: CCP Prism X
Originally by: Rian O'Shea
Originally by: Jovan Geldon
Edited by: Jovan Geldon on 29/11/2010 11:59:23
My post got pinkified. I'm not quite sure how to take that, to be honest.


I got the same treatment but valiantly stood up to the pinkifying and changed back to pure manliness.


It's all cool. I'm used to my love being rejected.


I love you! Sad


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