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JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
Posted - 2010.11.16 11:06:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: JcJet on 16/11/2010 11:10:55
Hi.
A few days before i've warped on sleeper anomaly in cl6. And my tengu was completely drained, i barely been able to activate some of active hardeners...

So i wonder, it's a planned change to TQ? :)

CCP Ytterbium

Posted - 2010.11.16 12:25:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 16/11/2010 12:26:25
Yes indeed, while balancing the new incursion Sansha NPCs we realized the Sleepers were incorrectly set, and not actively draining energy even if using the matching visual effect on players. This has been fixed on Singularity.

Please note this only affects the Sleepers however, regular mission/asteroid belt NPCs will not be affected.

JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
Posted - 2010.11.16 17:32:00 - [3]
 

Thanks for a clear answer :)
Expecting some whine topics Laughing

JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
Posted - 2010.11.16 17:51:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: JcJet
Edited by: JcJet on 16/11/2010 11:10:55
Hi.
A few days before i've warped on sleeper anomaly in cl6. And my tengu was completely drained, i barely been able to activate some of active hardeners...

So i wonder, it's a planned change to TQ? :)


Wow bit more info needed on this plz, by the sounds of it they using neuts not nos, is this in class 6 only or is it in all classes.

Seems a bit harsh after so long without nueting, they suddenly going to, it could certainly screw up all my and my corps fits.

Dmoney3788
Black Aces
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.11.16 17:55:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: JonShannow
Originally by: JcJet
Edited by: JcJet on 16/11/2010 11:10:55
Hi.
A few days before i've warped on sleeper anomaly in cl6. And my tengu was completely drained, i barely been able to activate some of active hardeners...

So i wonder, it's a planned change to TQ? :)


Wow bit more info needed on this plz, by the sounds of it they using neuts not nos, is this in class 6 only or is it in all classes.

Seems a bit harsh after so long without nueting, they suddenly going to, it could certainly screw up all my and my corps fits.


Adapt or die

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.11.16 17:57:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 16/11/2010 12:26:25
Yes indeed, while balancing the new incursion Sansha NPCs we realized the Sleepers were incorrectly set, and not actively draining energy even if using the matching visual effect on players. This has been fixed on Singularity.

Please note this only affects the Sleepers however, regular mission/asteroid belt NPCs will not be affected.

Is it still the case that those changes can't be rolled out to the 'normal' npc, because of cpu usage of this AI?
Would you have any news on that topic anyways? I seem to remember that there had been some talk years ago that normal npc would step-by-step brought up (to par?) with sleeper AI once this has been established as working?

Originally by: JonShannow
Originally by: JcJet
Hi.
A few days before i've warped on sleeper anomaly in cl6. And my tengu was completely drained, i barely been able to activate some of active hardeners...

So i wonder, it's a planned change to TQ? :)

Wow bit more info needed on this plz, by the sounds of it they using neuts not nos, is this in class 6 only or is it in all classes.

Seems a bit harsh after so long without nueting, they suddenly going to, it could certainly screw up all my and my corps fits.

Boo-hoo Razz

JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
Posted - 2010.11.16 18:01:00 - [7]
 

I hate to feed trolls but am sure your hungry.

I am sure we will actually adapt and not die, I ask only to get more info if possible, if not I will just test it myself.

Jon.

JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
Posted - 2010.11.16 18:40:00 - [8]
 

Well, i think it's not in cl-6 only, because i've seen this nos effect in other classes. And i think there is no reason to fix only 6 ones. It's was pulsar btw, so in other systems it's can be much tougher.

I've heard that in a begining sleeper nos worked fine, but was removed because of lot of whine. Well, now WH is quite popular, so maybe it's about time to get this back.

And btw, there is an interesting phrase in one of latest devblog about Sansha incursions:
Quote:
Speaking of the NPCs, while we adopted a "wolf pack" approach for the Sleepers in Apocrypha, we chose to create very specialized units for this feature, inspired from players setups. We also improved the Sleeper AI to match their new capabilities. As such you will face NPC equivalent of logistics, stealth bombers, remote spider-repairing battleships, interceptors, command ships, EW platforms, and more.


EW platforms? ECM, Target Painters, Dampening it's EW too, and i'm afraid it's also can be quite painful, if it will added to sleeper EWar Laughing

Well, at least a sleeper salvage price will go up...

And personally, althrough WH it's now my main activity, i don't think that it's a bad news, because sleepers was not intended to be easy to farm for everyone...

el Sabor
Posted - 2010.11.16 18:44:00 - [9]
 

As someone who regularly runs WH sites with friends:

Brilliant! More interesting EWar or AI tweaks are always welcomeVery Happy

Prof Bunson
Posted - 2010.11.16 22:22:00 - [10]
 

Sweet. T3 prices are gonna go way way up folks; all those solo/shield tanking WH bears are screwed.

Pesets
The Hunt Club
Posted - 2010.11.17 05:14:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: JcJet
And btw, there is an interesting phrase in one of latest devblog about Sansha incursions:
Quote:
Speaking of the NPCs, while we adopted a "wolf pack" approach for the Sleepers in Apocrypha, we chose to create very specialized units for this feature, inspired from players setups. We also improved the Sleeper AI to match their new capabilities. As such you will face NPC equivalent of logistics, stealth bombers, remote spider-repairing battleships, interceptors, command ships, EW platforms, and more.


EW platforms? ECM, Target Painters, Dampening it's EW too, and i'm afraid it's also can be quite painful, if it will added to sleeper EWar Laughing


I think this is referring to Incursion Sansha NPCs using "Sleeper AI", not the actual Sleeper NPCs being redesigned (might want to give that AI a separate name to avoid confusion... like, i dunno, "EbilTearJerker AI" or something?). So far i've seen ISansha rats jam and neut, i don't think they damp or track disrupt... though by now maybe they do.

Abyss Wyrm
Caldari
We Don't Need This POS Anyway
Posted - 2010.11.18 17:47:00 - [12]
 

Intresting change, although won't prevent то farm sleepers effectevly, only a bit slower maybe.
I hope nanoribbons price will go up %)

Kassa Daito
Capital Construction Research
Pioneer Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.18 22:12:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Kassa Daito on 18/11/2010 22:12:59
Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 16/11/2010 12:26:25
Yes indeed, while balancing the new incursion Sansha NPCs we realized the Sleepers were incorrectly set, and not actively draining energy even if using the matching visual effect on players. This has been fixed on Singularity.

Please note this only affects the Sleepers however, regular mission/asteroid belt NPCs will not be affected.

/me hopes CCP intended to tell us about this bugfix in the patch notes.

I always thought the sleepers were nossing but maintained high capacitor levels ;) As a previous poster said, the major sleeper loot producers will continue operating with minor changes because they were already mostly passive tanked RR setups or capital logistics with a fair amount of extra capacitor. The real tears will come from the people trying to solo C3s and C4s.

Coka Cola1
Posted - 2010.11.19 04:03:00 - [14]
 

can anyone confirm what the nos'ing is like in a C4 or C3? Currently thats where my corp is setup but I cant test it myself. Wondering how much it will effect our active tanks.

Baillif
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2010.11.19 07:07:00 - [15]
 

Correct me if I'm wrong but the effect being shown is a Nos which shouldn't be draining cap unless you were either energy neutralizing the sleeper or it was somehow crapping it's own cap out. To my knowledge you can't cap a sleeper out since they are bottomless cap like any other NPC (which is anal gay btw)

If you meant for them to be neuting then change the effect to a neuting effect. This is irritating for two reasons because 1. Nos is working as intended or 2. It just took CCP 2 years to figure out sleepers should be neuting but weren't. In either case CCP is ******ed.

I rather liked catching cap stable super tank tengu's that had 2 billion isk worth of gear on them. This type of fitting and flying should be encouraged, not groups of t2 fit crap RR t3 fits.

Sounds like some CCP dev joined a wormhole corp and got butthurt when they said get tengu to rat sleepers or GTFO

Bubbled
Posted - 2010.11.19 08:14:00 - [16]
 

In my opinion, a correct approach would be this: if sleepers are now really capable to NOS/NEUT then they should suffer from the same thing as capsulers do. They should not have a infinite cap to their disposal so if they NEUT too much (or if they are hit by players NEUT) they should run out of cap and drop tank/mwd/web/scram/other-cap-eating-modules.

Vidar Kentoran
Minmatar
Eighty Joule Brewery
Posted - 2010.11.19 08:53:00 - [17]
 

I don't really care about people who solo C3/C4, but I sure hope this doesn't buff Capital Escalations to the point that they instantly cap out any subcap, cause that would be really annoying for those of us who treat wormholes as a team thing.

JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
Posted - 2010.11.19 11:03:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: JcJet on 19/11/2010 11:05:25
Originally by: Vidar Kentoran
I don't really care about people who solo C3/C4, but I sure hope this doesn't buff Capital Escalations to the point that they instantly cap out any subcap, cause that would be really annoying for those of us who treat wormholes as a team thing.

Passive tanking and cap energy transfers(when necessary) for those few useful ships which still need a cap. Problem solved.

JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
Posted - 2010.11.19 16:59:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Baillif

Sounds like some CCP dev joined a wormhole corp and got butthurt when they said get tengu to rat sleepers or GTFO


Love it, def sig material Smile

I also thought it was nos not nuets, and yep if they are gonna nuet then they should be able to be nueted.

Its definitely gonna take a bit of playing around with to sort out new ways of running the plexes, would be horrible to find out the only way to do these plexes would be in buffer fit rr groups.

Just another case of CCP being too lazy to have separate AI for the sleeper and Sansha I guessConfused

Ive J
Posted - 2010.11.19 17:56:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Ive J on 19/11/2010 17:59:25
One world: WHINE

CCP turned off sleeper nos becouse ppl can't do any anomalies in higer wormhole class (eg. C4-C6). Insta cap draining was terrible and any ships with energy transfer wan't be able to do anomalies and plexes when 90% sleepers have NOS and they are able to attack many targets in this same time.

If you, DEVs turn on nos in TQ, probably many players stop playing or go afk and tell you "that was stupid think".

You turn off this for colonize higer class w-space. Now, you turn on this with telling us "we realize that's don't work" and you think ppl will be able to do this? That's paranoic...

@EDIT: Stop doing stupid thinks and nerfs w-space what is realy perfect at this moment. Try go to w-space class 5 with few ppl and try do any anomalies or magneto/radar plex. You realy don't know anythink about wormholes and thinking you are best...

DEV: "I know everthink about w-space"
Player: "Do you run any anomalies in any wormhole?"
DEV: "erm.... can you search me some w-space, i will try it"

Yes ffs... try do this now and as ppl said you, don't nerf our perfect world

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2010.11.19 18:17:00 - [21]
 

Oh ****, need MUCH more info on this and what to expect. We have a lot of established fits that need some tweaking if this goes through.

And really... It took you over a YEAR to realize this?

JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
Posted - 2010.11.19 18:20:00 - [22]
 

WH is already kinda overpopulated, and it's getting worse every month. So don't worry, i'm sure someone else will take your system, if you don't need it...

Chruker
Posted - 2010.11.19 21:39:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: CCP Ytterbium
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 16/11/2010 12:26:25
Yes indeed, while balancing the new incursion Sansha NPCs we realized the Sleepers were incorrectly set, and not actively draining energy even if using the matching visual effect on players. This has been fixed on Singularity.

Please note this only affects the Sleepers however, regular mission/asteroid belt NPCs will not be affected.


damn you. I was enjoying their fake nos'ing

Contralto
Rift Tech
Posted - 2010.11.19 22:03:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Contralto on 19/11/2010 22:18:38
Anyone have any info on the amount the various sleepers Nuet/Nos? is it in the DB?

I am setting up test configs on Eft using a faction heavy Nuet as a benchmark, Trying to get cap stable with 4 activated on one ship. Easily handled by a Carrier But active Tengus will die fast unless RR by a Logistics or Carrier.

looks like the old Lvl V mission Passive Nighthawk/Tengus will be resurrected, along with their dismal Dps output.

Mella Elcus
Posted - 2010.11.20 04:28:00 - [25]
 

Does this mean that everyone who wants to solo a C3 will have to train for a Drake? :/

1920s Flapper
Posted - 2010.11.20 04:57:00 - [26]
 

1) Could a GM please clarify if this change is coming with the "upgrade/xmas" patch (t2 ammo/rocket change) or the full incursion patch?

2) Please mirror sisi so people who are now in wormholes can test the new sleeper nos/neut efffect

JcJet
Caldari
Pretenders Inc
W-Space
Posted - 2010.11.20 09:28:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: 1920s Flapper
2) Please mirror sisi so people who are now in wormholes can test the new sleeper nos/neut efffect

Actually there is another problem.
Is not a big problem to scan out a entrance to WH system where corp is deployed.

Thing is, there is currently NO combat signatures in our system on SiSi, only WH, La, and grav. Just one, on which i've been when find out about this change, a few days before this topic, and no new combat sigs since then.

I think that they are not spawning on SiSi, they just copied with mirror from TQ... Can anyone confirm that conclusion? It's kinda sad that we unable to do some testing maneuvers because of this...ugh

JonShannow
Caldari
Regante
Posted - 2010.11.20 09:55:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: JcJet
Originally by: 1920s Flapper
2) Please mirror sisi so people who are now in wormholes can test the new sleeper nos/neut efffect

Actually there is another problem.
Is not a big problem to scan out a entrance to WH system where corp is deployed.

Thing is, there is currently NO combat signatures in our system on SiSi, only WH, La, and grav. Just one, on which i've been when find out about this change, a few days before this topic, and no new combat sigs since then.

I think that they are not spawning on SiSi, they just copied with mirror from TQ... Can anyone confirm that conclusion? It's kinda sad that we unable to do some testing maneuvers because of this...ugh


was combat sigs in our wh yesterday on SiSi

Contralto
Rift Tech
Posted - 2010.11.20 10:10:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Contralto on 20/11/2010 11:34:24
I have 3 Combat sites in my C4, I am currently being Nos/Nueted by a single Sleepless Upholder BS at 65km, Although I have the graphic I dont appear to be having any Cap drained atm. I am in an Active Tengu, Cap stable at 50% for 10 minutes now.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1011/C4_Sleeper_Nos.jpg

Now orbiting at 3km still at 50% cap.

He has stopped Nossing now and cap is still steady at 50%

There is also a Sleepless Preserver but it doesnt Nos.

Perhaps it is only C5 and C6 that are now Nossing? or in fact Npc Nos are working the same as Player Nos, Ie Cant Nos lower than its own cap level,

Do some Sleepers nuet and some Nos?

Baillif
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2010.11.20 10:43:00 - [30]
 

What level was that tengu's cap stability normally?


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