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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.16 14:10:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Nathan Jameson
If anything, this scene reminds me exactly of a similar scene from Chronicles of riddick, where Van Deisel's character is almost attacked by a similar creature, but instead befriends it. When asked how this was possible, he answers something to the effect of it sensing a kindred spirit. Which is almost word-for-word how it was described in the story.

So naive; thinking the two will be riding into the sunset of love. ^_^

E.g. just cause a crazy person sees a kindred spirit doesn't mean it's not lunch time.

Shaedyn
Posted - 2010.11.16 14:13:00 - [32]
 

Very good. VERY good. Ending wasn't "happy" but it certainly wasn't sad.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.11.16 14:58:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
So naive; thinking the two will be riding into the sunset of love. ^_^

E.g. just cause a crazy person sees a kindred spirit doesn't mean it's not lunch time.


Referring to CCP Abraxas's post about the ending of this story:

Originally by: CCP Abraxas
And with respect to recent discussions, let me just add for any who wonder: This story has a happy ending. So did Hona is Three, Rust Creeps and Burnt. We really are a gentle, lovable people, we devs. Very Happy


All three stories he referenced had protagonists who did not die at the end, but rather learned some way to survive in a harsh, cruel, and unforgiving world. That is the only sort of "happy ending" you will ever get in EVE--in the Chronicles, or behind the monitor.

I don't think my take on the ending was at all unfounded.

CCP Abraxas

Posted - 2010.11.16 16:09:00 - [34]
 

See, here's the thing about short stories and happy endings: It's apples and oranges. A short story is a pivotal act just barely wreathed in a beginning and an end. Something goes wrong in a short story. The positivity (or lesson, or epiphany or whatever reaction you may have from reading any story) derived from the story's text depends on whether that event likely propelled the protagonist towards his or her own lesson, epiphany, realization, etc.

Basically, if someone's bad off and something happens to make that worse, that's not automatically an unhappy story or a bad ending. What matters is the outcome of that pivotal event seen in the context of what just happened - insofar as you're allowed to see that outcome, because obviously short stories can't do protracted followups.

King Slaver isn't about politics or brutality, or about someone being stuck in a terrible place. That's the context. It's about someone of a religious bent who's put through the wringer and who, in a place of immense ugliness and despair, manages not only to come to terms with it, but likely also to become a stronger, more satisfied person - in this place, of all places. That is a happy ending.

Also, for the one who referenced Apocalypse Now: Yes, oh yes; but go deeper. Compare the first paragraph of King Slaver with the first paragraph of something else far more famous (and rightly so).

And the 47 isn't a reference to Hitman (all props to our friends at IO), but to Mark Twain, and a story he wrote about a man who may be something more than a man. If you know that story and that man, the entirety of King Slaver takes on yet another meaning.

Ian Luxor
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.16 18:12:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: CCP Abraxas
King Slaver isn't about politics or brutality, or about someone being stuck in a terrible place. That's the context. It's about someone of a religious bent who's put through the wringer and who, in a place of immense ugliness and despair, manages not only to come to terms with it, but likely also to become a stronger, more satisfied person - in this place, of all places. That is a happy ending.



Nevertheless he ends as Slaver food.. Very Happy


CCP Abraxas

Posted - 2010.11.16 18:28:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Ian Luxor
Originally by: CCP Abraxas
King Slaver isn't about politics or brutality, or about someone being stuck in a terrible place. That's the context. It's about someone of a religious bent who's put through the wringer and who, in a place of immense ugliness and despair, manages not only to come to terms with it, but likely also to become a stronger, more satisfied person - in this place, of all places. That is a happy ending.



Nevertheless he ends as Slaver food.. Very Happy



Who says?Cool

Sciencegeek deathdealer
Posted - 2010.11.16 21:50:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Sciencegeek deathdealer on 16/11/2010 21:56:50
Originally by: CCP Abraxas
See, here's the thing about short stories and happy endings: It's apples and oranges. A short story is a pivotal act just barely wreathed in a beginning and an end. Something goes wrong in a short story. The positivity (or lesson, or epiphany or whatever reaction you may have from reading any story) derived from the story's text depends on whether that event likely propelled the protagonist towards his or her own lesson, epiphany, realization, etc.

Basically, if someone's bad off and something happens to make that worse, that's not automatically an unhappy story or a bad ending. What matters is the outcome of that pivotal event seen in the context of what just happened - insofar as you're allowed to see that outcome, because obviously short stories can't do protracted followups.

King Slaver isn't about politics or brutality, or about someone being stuck in a terrible place. That's the context. It's about someone of a religious bent who's put through the wringer and who, in a place of immense ugliness and despair, manages not only to come to terms with it, but likely also to become a stronger, more satisfied person - in this place, of all places. That is a happy ending.

Also, for the one who referenced Apocalypse Now: Yes, oh yes; but go deeper. Compare the first paragraph of King Slaver with the first paragraph of something else far more famous (and rightly so).

And the 47 isn't a reference to Hitman (all props to our friends at IO), but to Mark Twain, and a story he wrote about a man who may be something more than a man. If you know that story and that man, the entirety of King Slaver takes on yet another meaning.


/sarcasm OFF
I bow down to the wholeness and complexity of the short story. You sir, are my hero. :.]

Rhinanna
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.11.17 00:00:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: CCP Abraxas
Originally by: Ian Luxor
Originally by: CCP Abraxas
King Slaver isn't about politics or brutality, or about someone being stuck in a terrible place. That's the context. It's about someone of a religious bent who's put through the wringer and who, in a place of immense ugliness and despair, manages not only to come to terms with it, but likely also to become a stronger, more satisfied person - in this place, of all places. That is a happy ending.



Nevertheless he ends as Slaver food.. Very Happy



Who says?Cool


My guess there would be the slaver hound.
In particular I think its probably saying "mmm dinner" Laughing

Kiko Tojima
Amarr
Posted - 2010.11.17 06:53:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: CCP Abraxas
Also, for the one who referenced Apocalypse Now: Yes, oh yes; but go deeper. Compare the first paragraph of King Slaver with the first paragraph of something else far more famous (and rightly so).

Holy crap, now you hooked me...
Obviously not the first chapter of "Heart of Darkness".
"Papillon" maybe?

GregoriusAtlas
Posted - 2010.11.17 09:38:00 - [40]
 

Filth !
To have an universe a little on the dark side is one thing , to write such crap is quite another .
Abraxas if this is the sort of smut that gets you off knock yourself out , but i for one will never bother reading another of your " happy end stories " .

Elistar XI
Posted - 2010.11.17 12:06:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Elistar XI on 17/11/2010 12:13:00
I don't get it, did eve chronicles become a contest of which one is more odd, twisted or cryptic?

Something cryptic from time to time is ok, but it's just like a good joke, if you overuse it then it gets boring.

A lot of people who are new to eve will compliment these chronicles because it's something new for them, but as someone who played eve for almost 4 years these are old and boring.

With 1 or 2 exceptions I didn't read anything innovative or original in the last year or two. I am sure you can do better than just repeating yourself over and over again.

edit: I am not criticizing the concept of the story, it is a good one, but the way it is told is the same old cryptic same. and a headache to decrypt no matter how proficient they are.

Dresdor
Posted - 2010.11.17 12:22:00 - [42]
 

Silly amarr. Dont they know the slaver king is really just another tool to break them.

kinky ho
Posted - 2010.11.17 15:22:00 - [43]
 

im not sure who writes these things but they all seem as if they are trying far to hard....if you know what i mean, they lack tallent and direction and give away to much too soon

Nie'eine Hier
NieCo Group
Posted - 2010.11.17 18:01:00 - [44]
 

Not so many can read between words , the real thema is the survival of the fact that keeps us -the people- ,the ,so named, inteligent creatures , the highest evolved of all beings, different as a whole and far away from being taken as domestic animals good only for the hard work in the places where the machines are of no use.
Consciousness is like a volume , a cube by example , whole because all his lines unite in several points creating faces , some enlightened , some dark. Pictures of your views and beliefs. Not imporant where the light is coming from , you will see the faces in front of you and if a line misses then your universe is no more complete. Maybe the missing line was the acceptance of the chaos as it is, part of his life.
Beautifull story.
And making a movie from inside EVE life and story is no bad idea, just needs a lot of work, much more than a Chronicle, but worth it ?

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.11.17 21:27:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: kinky ho
im not sure who writes these things but they all seem as if they are trying far to hard....if you know what i mean, they lack tallent and direction and give away to much too soon
You're not showing a lot of talent in the reading department either. The first post in this thread clearly states who wrote it - that is as you apparently missed his numerous bluebar posts in the threat.

Ji'kahr
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Posted - 2010.11.18 00:03:00 - [46]
 

I thought that the story was brilliant, truly brilliant. The language was descriptive and evocative, painting a believable picture of what life would be like in one of these prisoner labor camps.

I definitely think it is realistic for the Minmatar to be as brutal to the Amarrians as the Amarrians were with them, if not more so. 'Turnabout is fair play.' It's also more interesting to hear a story about an Amarrian prisoner having a crisis with his religion rather than a bunch of prisoners who were jettisoned into space.

However, I too was confused by the ending. Especially since it is referred to as a 'happy' ending. It was my understanding that the Slaver hound made short work of Prisoner 47. However, the story is resolved because prisoner 47 met 'the Slaver King' and thus had a religious revelation before he died. I suppose it's a little like the Christian martyrs who face the lions in the colosseum while singing hymns, believing that they will shortly be delivered into 'life eternal'.

This 'religious revelation' at the end, in my mind, was the prisoner's acceptance of life as it is, a kind of fatalism or stoicism, perhaps even satori. Whether his mortal body was destroyed by the Slaver hound or not is no longer of importance. Whatever has happened, prisoner 47 has transcended his mortality, his humanity.

I suppose there are some parallels between this story and 'Apocalypse Now', or Joseph Conrad's 'Heart of Darkness'. The Slaver King in the Jungle could be thought of as a kind of Kurtz, and so forth. This doesn't mean that the story isn't brilliant on it's own, or original. It only means that there are really NO NEW STORIES, only new variations on familiar themes.

Arnulf Ogunkoya
Minmatar
The Causality
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.11.18 01:20:00 - [47]
 

Well.

Maybe it was happy because he dies having found true faith, as opposed to the lip service most of his compatriots offer (according to the story itself that is)?

Or maybe he did survive, and the happy ending is by finding a way to endure, and still remain a thinking being?

My money is on the first though.

I do wonder what he was arrested for mind. He doesn't seem to think he did anything wrong. But what standards is he applying to think that?

Had a look but couldn't track down the Mark Twain reference, and I've never read Heart of Darkness.

Ji'kahr
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Posted - 2010.11.18 02:52:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Arnulf Ogunkoya
Well.

Maybe it was happy because he dies having found true faith, as opposed to the lip service most of his compatriots offer (according to the story itself that is)?

Or maybe he did survive, and the happy ending is by finding a way to endure, and still remain a thinking being?

My money is on the first though.

I do wonder what he was arrested for mind. He doesn't seem to think he did anything wrong. But what standards is he applying to think that?

Had a look but couldn't track down the Mark Twain reference, and I've never read Heart of Darkness.


I think what you say is true to the story, as well as the Eve backstory regarding Amarr society. The holy texts of the Amarrians are a huge collection which would rival the law library of any medium-sized University. The religion of the Amarrians is roughly based on the worst elements of the Catholic church, where the power of the priests was uncontested and the religious texts (Grimoiries), chained up, inaccessible, and incomprehensible to the layman. Amarrian society is one of ritual and tradition, not unlike feudal Europe.

I think what the Amarrian prisoners did that was 'wrong' was to be captured by the Minmatar as prisoners of war. As a loyal Amarrian soldier he wouldn't 'think' he has done anything wrong by killing Matari, but to the Minmatar of course he is a captured enemy who has been found guilty of crimes against their people.

I think the prison camps are to break the Amarrian POWs spirit, perhaps even 'brainwash' them into supporting the Minmatar struggle. Break them down, reprogram them, and send them back into the Amarrian militia as spies, sabotagers, and provocateurs. (I could see a little of that happening on both sides.)

In this case, prisoner 47 may have found 'religious revelation' in the form of a 'stockholm syndrome'. Sort of like Winston Smith coming to love Big Brother at the end of 1984.

The 'Slaver King' may be part of the Matari technique to brainwash the Amarrians into switching sides. As the story darkly hints "Religion to the Amarrians is a kind of habit, the Minmatar know this as well." Convince the Amarrians that the voice they hear is actually the voice of God, and they will do anything that is told to them.

Perhaps that's why the Amarrians with that 'holy glow' were left alone and given preferential treatment by the Minmatar prison guards. These prisoners with the holy glow were already brainwashed, and ready for the next stage of 'processing'. This is exactly the 'good cop, bad cop' technique that the Chinese used to brainwash American soldiers during the cold war. Break them down, build them up again. The lack of fear at the Slaver Hound may have been an indication to his captors that prisoner 47's spirit was now broken. His mind was ready for the re-indoctrination process.

Happy ending...for the Minmatar, I guess.

I'm not sure what you mean by the Mark Twain reference. Perhaps you are thinking of 'The Jungle book'? There is a part in that book where the feral child looks into the eyes of an angry wolf, and becomes accepted by the wolf pack.

I haven't actually read 'Heart of Darkness' either. However it's the story that 'Apocalypse Now is loosely based on. So Heart of Darkness = Apocalypse Now, with crazy Kurtz as the Slaver King.



Izekat
Posted - 2010.11.18 04:08:00 - [49]
 

I guess not everyone in new eden gets the luxury of a comfy pod.

Jentisis Kortican
Posted - 2010.11.18 04:54:00 - [50]
 

cool story bro. but fight club. thinks he knows the world --> losses/gives up everything --> gains knowledge. that being said good read, dont agree with idea but good read.

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.11.18 14:11:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Alexeph Stoekai on 18/11/2010 14:11:22
Originally by: GregoriusAtlas
It is my God given right to say exactly what i want and that is exactly what i am going to say
Oh, hey. You're that guy who praised the Amarrian clown who chose his faith and Empire over the life of his child, and you once said someone would go to hell for questioning spirituality.

You have praised the darkness in EVE Chronicles before, so I guess there must be something special about this one.

I wonder what it could be.

CCP Zymurgist


Gallente
C C P
Posted - 2010.11.18 21:42:00 - [52]
 

Off topic and political discussions removed. Please remember to stay on topic and post in a constructive matter.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2010.11.19 02:36:00 - [53]
 

I think the Mark Twain reference is to "The Mysterious Stranger". It is a story of which several versions exist about Satan, a nephew of the famous Satan also called No 44.

Miregar Shakor
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.19 10:47:00 - [54]
 

I've seen freed slaves dying in happiness moments after disembarking from refuge vessels, on stretchers, on the cold floor of a for them alien station's landing dock. I can relate to 47's state of mind just before succumbing to the slavehound. Which he did, since the beast does not know compassion, only instinct. And hunger..

I can also see the true nature of the so called 'king'. The corruption and falsehood. The parasitic abuse of the very basic beliefs of his own race.

For me he is the true Amarr, revealed.

CCP Abraxas

Posted - 2010.11.19 11:26:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: CCP Abraxas on 19/11/2010 11:29:08
Originally by: Auwnie Morohe
I think the Mark Twain reference is to "The Mysterious Stranger". It is a story of which several versions exist about Satan, a nephew of the famous Satan also called No 44.
Bingo! It was oblique, mind; the Heart of Darkness references (particularly with the first paragraph of the story) were intended to stand out a lot more.

Edit: I read The Mysterious Stranger - several versions of it, since Twain never completed the story - when I was much younger, and I never forgot it. It's one of the first occasions I can remember when I read something and realized how immensely deep and strange literature could be. It ranks up there with The Brothers Lionheart by Astrid Lindgren - the books are very different, but the darkness creeping around the edges is there in equal measure.

mattig89ch1
Caldari
RipStar.
Posted - 2010.11.19 20:34:00 - [56]
 

you know, I was starting to wonder if you people were only concerned with the absolute darkness of eve. Jita 4-4, Xenocracy, desert fathers (just too name a few) were solely concerned with the idea that human beings were cruel and would always be cruel. With no possibility of anything else.

But with chronicles like Rust Creeps, and the Rite, you get to see that human beings aren't just cruel people, who's sole reason for existance is to cause misery and suffering before they drift off to obscure death. Sure this king might be another form of control, but at least he gives these prisoners some sense of being/peace.

So bravo on the chronicle. Glad to see you fine people an ccp can write something more then chronicles about death, and destruction.

Conrad Makbure
Gallente
Teutonic Brotherhood
Posted - 2010.11.22 04:27:00 - [57]
 

Ending is kinda, vague, like the "less is more" thing is going on here. I don't know it's ok. We really don't know if the slaver hound changes it's mind and eats old 47, do we? It's implied that the hound leaves him alone? So, so ending I suppose.

Freddy Markfans
Posted - 2010.11.22 12:22:00 - [58]
 

No guys, the Slaver King is the Slaver Hound, they attract Amarrians there to feed the Slaver Laughing .

Seriously, its the best chronicle I read for now, I would love to see more about good things btw Smile

Hirimatsu Yamamoto
Wychwood and Wells
United Nations Intelligence Taskforces
Posted - 2010.11.24 20:00:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: kinky ho
im not sure who writes these things but they all seem as if they are trying far to hard....if you know what i mean, they lack tallent and direction and give away to much too soon


One who lacks the capacity for impeccable grammar himself should not criticise the content, and general capacity of the author, when the critic himself likely has little to no grasp of the very story he/she is criticising.

What was the last book, or piece of writing you had published?

..... I didn't think so....

Marleigh Raffaraii
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:18:00 - [60]
 

Awesome story Abraxas! Loved it; keep writing mate.

-Ker


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