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Creetalor
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2010.11.15 14:51:00 - [1]
 

First off a short quote from wikipedia

Quote:
In naval terminology, a destroyer is a fast and maneuverable yet long-endurance warship intended to escort larger vessels in a fleet, convoy or battle group and defend them against smaller, short-range but powerful attackers (originally torpedo boats, later submarines and aircraft).


With the emphasis on the anti submarine use for the destroyer me and a few friends came up with a idea for a new specialized ship semi effective against cloaked ships.
Idea
Class: Tech II Destroyer
Name of class: Spec Ops (Special Ops)
Destroyer Bonus:
10% bonus to dmg and tracking speed for small guns (race specific)per level

Special ops bonus:
2 % bonus to cloaked velocity per level
95.5% to -100% targeting delay after decloaking

Role Bonus:
Can fit sonar scanner
-99.5% reduction in Cloak CPU Use
Idea

Detail on the bonuses with why how what for:

The way the Sonar scanner works it detects a cloaked ship on grid ( IMPORTANT only on grid so within 400 km in every direction ) it does not uncloak or pinpoint the target but simply gives the ship a Information how far the distance and a 180 degree pinpoint so it says if its in a sphere in front or behind the way your looking like a directional scanner does a half a circle direction at 180 from camera angle.

The ship obviously is designed to be highly specialized at hunting bombers and possibly recons(due to size) its not a solution against afk cloakers but simply to notice eyes on a station etc so no afk cloaker can sit 350 off station and keep an eye without worry.It was important that this is a new class of cloaky since otherwise a bomber would notice it to easily.I see a use for them in mining protection keeping scans for incoming cloaky's on a mining fleet moving closer and otherwise bombing runs starting. I am myself a cov ops pilot and like the class but sometimes I feel there must be a correct counter to them not a overpowered one but one none the less.

With bonus of the targeting delay being connected to the level I feel if you want to be efficent you will have to train lvl 5 to get -100% targeting delay after decloak on a bomber.

I am happy for constructive critic and if you think it might be a good idea this is not a discussion about afk cloakers or the like!Exclamation

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.11.15 15:06:00 - [2]
 

why is every t2 destroyer idea a cloak nerf thread?

uwai223
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.11.15 15:06:00 - [3]
 

Quote:
Role Bonus: Can fit sonar scanner -99.5% reduction in Cloak CPU Use Idea


I'm sorry bub, but sonar doesn't work in a vacuum.

Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2010.11.15 15:08:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
why is every t2 destroyer idea a cloak nerf thread?

Creetalor
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2010.11.15 15:34:00 - [5]
 

Well why destroyer because its even tech 1 supposed to be a counter to frigates while not being a cruiser yet and its meant for frigate cloaks no recon really dmg wise.

Uses advanced acoustical and visual targeting to identify threats. Allows target lock without alerting the ship to a possible threat.

That is the description for a passive targeter now the thing that i know about sonar is that is uses acustical waves that get reflected back so apparently ccp things sonars work in space!

I also do not see this as a real nerf as it is only for on grid cloaky and in system cloaky

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2010.11.15 16:00:00 - [6]
 

Your idea actually isn't as bad of anticloak as many make it out. First, no cloak on it though, second, I think it would need bouy launchers. Controlled via tactical overview and using deployment mechanics. This way it is entirely defensive but cloakers can tell if they are being tracked. I also wouldn't negate fast wolfpack attacks, only lurkers. I am an explorer and rely on covert for survival. An active, on grid only that requires planning and focus' plus is difficult to tag down a moving or active player, I have no problem with. It offers risk but imo, wont nerf it.

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2010.11.15 16:02:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Markus Reese on 15/11/2010 16:03:16
Duplicate post? delete this please

Creetalor
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2010.11.15 16:09:00 - [8]
 

That is definatly a good idea turning it around like that making it a defensive use within a home system hope people will read your idea as well.

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2010.11.15 16:51:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Creetalor
That is definatly a good idea turning it around like that making it a defensive use within a home system hope people will read your idea as well.
lol a bit misenterpetated from what I was thinking. what I meant was the way you control probes on the star map, you control these bouys on tactical overview in hud (ship view). Anyways, larger anchorable field booters could be a bit op, but feasable.

Lorna Sicling
Caldari
Helix Pulse
Posted - 2010.11.15 17:38:00 - [10]
 

Good idea - as somebody who spends lots of time cloaked I agree and support this.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.11.15 17:57:00 - [11]
 

Can we fix the T1 destroyers first before we start dreaming up new T2 variants?

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2010.11.15 23:40:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Can we fix the T1 destroyers first before we start dreaming up new T2 variants?

Aside from the complete lack of constructive boon from that statement, I must ask how. Destroyers=longer range anti frigate. They are a frigate sized ship, ergo they are weak like any other T1 frigate and as such, not really anything to fix.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.11.16 00:01:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Markus Reese
Originally by: Scatim Helicon
Can we fix the T1 destroyers first before we start dreaming up new T2 variants?

Aside from the complete lack of constructive boon from that statement, I must ask how. Destroyers=longer range anti frigate. They are a frigate sized ship, ergo they are weak like any other T1 frigate and as such, not really anything to fix.


too big sigradius, would be the most obvious thing to fix.

McEivalley
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.16 00:32:00 - [14]
 

Terrible, go away. Read other cloak nerf threads before "inventing" yet another pointless post.

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2010.11.16 01:15:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: McEivalley
Terrible, go away. Read other cloak nerf threads before "inventing" yet another pointless post.


First, Thanks Darius, never realized that about the sig radius being so big on the dessies

Second, the quote. The idea presented isn't a nerf cloak idea like many of the other proposals. The ability to tell if a cloaker is in proximity isn't over powered, and my thoughts of being able to track one down if done right, won't give a real disadvantage to a moving target. I am a cloaker, this type of setup wouldn't bother me, and would be kinda cool.

William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
Posted - 2010.11.16 01:55:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: William Cooly on 16/11/2010 01:55:57
Originally by: Markus Reese
HURR I R ORIGNALZ


No, I'm sorry, this is. It mentions cloaks and ways to fix their "overpoweredness" through some means.
This.
This is a cloak nerf thread.

EDIT://
Also I like how you say you're a cloaker who wants to nerf cloaks like that makes you honorable or something. Hlysht I'm a cloaker too, just like practically everyone else! Ohbalss!

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2010.11.16 05:04:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Markus Reese on 16/11/2010 05:04:23
Well, you must have only half read the thread I think refering to the last posting person. First off, it wasn't my idea, I just liked the basis of the original poster's idea and supplimented it with my own of how to not make it a nerf. If there is valid counterpoint of why something like what was suggested aside from "DURZ, NOES NURF MI CLOKE!" I would like to hear it.

I know most everybody uses cloaks, my point is that I rely on it and I really couldn't play how I do if cloaking didn't exist. What it was I liked about this idea is that it proposed an interactive way to track down cloaks, no different than safespots etc. I am for anything that can create a bit of challenge and risk. The only real difficulty I can think of is the person in a really slow ship trying to slowboat away from a gate cloaked.

McEivalley
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.16 08:05:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Markus Reese
Originally by: McEivalley
Terrible, go away. Read other cloak nerf threads before "inventing" yet another pointless post.


First, Thanks Darius, never realized that about the sig radius being so big on the dessies

Second, the quote. The idea presented isn't a nerf cloak idea like many of the other proposals. The ability to tell if a cloaker is in proximity isn't over powered, and my thoughts of being able to track one down if done right, won't give a real disadvantage to a moving target. I am a cloaker, this type of setup wouldn't bother me, and would be kinda cool.


You're thinking about one ship. I'm thinking about an alliance which would exploit it and field 10 of them. 20 of them. 50 of them. What it would do to all cloaking aspects - not just (how remarkable of you to point it out) an "afk" cloaker (be it near a gate, a station or anywhere else in system).

emptycuper
Posted - 2010.11.17 07:14:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: uwai223
Quote:
Role Bonus: Can fit sonar scanner -99.5% reduction in Cloak CPU Use Idea


I'm sorry bub, but sonar doesn't work in a vacuum.


I'm sorry bub, were using light-speed, floating stations bigger than New York, sounds in space, not to mention a device called a "doomsday" that somehow does more damage than a gamma ray burst. We can use "sonar" in space. Trust me.

Creetalor
Caldari
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
Posted - 2010.11.17 23:06:00 - [20]
 

I do not see it acting as a extreme nerf due to it only working in a 400 km radius a guy sitting between planets will 99.99% not be affected by it at all.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.11.17 23:26:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Creetalor
I do not see it acting as a extreme nerf due to it only working in a 400 km radius a guy sitting between planets will 99.99% not be affected by it at all.


when was the last time your ran your blockade runner or recon through a bigger gate camp? properly set up gate camps catch even bombers and covert ops easily (i think our last one caught like 80% of the bombers they tried to jump in), with your idea our rate would mostlikely be 100% =)

you really think gate camps need more buffing?;)

Markus Reese
Caldari
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
Posted - 2010.11.18 01:53:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
when was the last time your ran your blockade runner or recon through a bigger gate camp? properly set up gate camps catch even bombers and covert ops easily (i think our last one caught like 80% of the bombers they tried to jump in), with your idea our rate would mostlikely be 100% =)

you really think gate camps need more buffing?;)


Well, that is why I suggested the probes idea. Would need to narrow down to say 5000m? (approximate?) and take a bit of time to be scanned down. I dunno, seems like a fun idea, and can be used to defend gates. I just like it because using a probe or deployment spec ship could be, fun?

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.11.18 01:55:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Markus Reese
Well, that is why I suggested the probes idea. Would need to narrow down to say 5000m? (approximate?) and take a bit of time to be scanned down. I dunno, seems like a fun idea, and can be used to defend gates. I just like it because using a probe or deployment spec ship could be, fun?


again ... why would i fit a cloak when i can be probed out anyway? seriously HTFU and dont fly around in 0.0 like an idiot.


 

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