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blankseplocked When are "UNprobable" ships getting nerfed?
 
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Baudolino
Gallente
Royal Crimson Lancers
Posted - 2010.11.11 20:33:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Baudolino on 15/11/2010 10:32:27
Everything gets balanced. Missiles got balanced 3-4 times in the years i`ve played. Stacking penalties, nos nerf and of course the speed nerf..

speed was nerfed because dramatic speed gave a massive advantage. Being unprobable makes you invulnerable. There`s a vast conceptual crevice between the two.

Being hard to probe is fair and balanced, being UNprobable is gamebreaking and not in line with the EVE universe.

Will CCP let this one slide though- since the UNprobable players are the carebear and PvE community?

I wasn`t aware that CCP had actually promoted being unprobable.

I find it somewhat annoying that any PvP related mechanic deemed overpowered, such as nos and nanos get nerfed to crumbs, but a clearly PvE related mechanic gets promoted. Not only that but it`s actually promoted as a means of achieving impunity in high risk areas.

Impunity is against the nature of EVE- from the second you undock, you are supposed to be at risk.

Sir Drake
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.11 20:40:00 - [2]
 

As soon as the afk-cloakers get "balanced".
Give or take 3-10 years and you get your balance.

Riho
Gallente
Drop of Blood
Posted - 2010.11.11 20:43:00 - [3]
 

kinda same deal as cloaked ships.... difference is u can see them on scan but not probe em.

tbh unprobable ships must sacrifice quite abit to achive this.. so they arent better than cloaker.

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.11.11 20:45:00 - [4]
 

How about as soon as PVP and PVE get balanced so that people running missions in low sec are able to defend themselves from bottom feeders such as yourself?

Unprobable ships are the counter to the stupidly easy probing system that provides people like you with risk free killmails.

Catch em in transit and suck it up.

Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2010.11.11 20:49:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore
How about as soon as PVP and PVE get balanced so that people running missions in low sec are able to defend themselves from bottom feeders such as yourself?

Unprobable ships are the counter to the stupidly easy probing system that provides people like you with risk free killmails.

Catch em in transit and suck it up.

Get a clue and find out that scanning somebody down isn't even equal to tackling him, let alone killing.
Risk-free killmails are only obtainable on farmers, who don't know how to fit their ships and how to utilize slots.

souhyeahright
Posted - 2010.11.11 20:58:00 - [6]
 

Unprobeable mission boats... bleh, whatever. Kind of makes a mockery of risk-reward, but there are other ways of finding shiny things to kill.

Unprobeable squadboosting T3s, however, are rapidly becoming ubiquitous in small gang pvp, and Loki alts are the new Falcon alts; IMO, that's very undesireable and needs un-f***ing. Would be reasonably happy with the situation if they made gang bonuses/links only affect ships on the same grid as the boosting ship.

Baudolino
Gallente
Royal Crimson Lancers
Posted - 2010.11.11 21:05:00 - [7]
 

the cloak analogy is silly because you need to decloak to interact with the game. A cloaked ship can only rattle your nerve - IT CAN NEVER ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING..

UN-probable ships however can provide massive uncontested fleet bonuses or can enable a player to earn massive amounts of isk while never ever worrying about getting caught.

Difficult to probe is one thing- impossible to probe is just wrong..



Donde Esta
Posted - 2010.11.11 21:12:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Baudolino
the cloak analogy is silly because you need to decloak to interact with the game. A cloaked ship can only rattle your nerve - IT CAN NEVER ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING..

UN-probable ships however can provide massive uncontested fleet bonuses or can enable a player to earn massive amounts of isk while never ever worrying about getting caught.

Difficult to probe is one thing- impossible to probe is just wrong..





Except use its probes, warp, enter tackle range, etc

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.11 21:20:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Baudolino
UN-probable ships however can provide massive uncontested fleet bonuses or can enable a player to earn massive amounts of isk while never ever worrying about getting caught.
No, it can only provide fleet bonuses. In order to earn "massive amounts of ISK", it needs to put itself in a position to get caught.

It's a non-issue.

Willmahh
Posted - 2010.11.11 21:29:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Donde Esta
Originally by: Baudolino
the cloak analogy is silly because you need to decloak to interact with the game. A cloaked ship can only rattle your nerve - IT CAN NEVER ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING..

UN-probable ships however can provide massive uncontested fleet bonuses or can enable a player to earn massive amounts of isk while never ever worrying about getting caught.

Difficult to probe is one thing- impossible to probe is just wrong..





Except use its probes, warp, enter tackle range, etc


then it isn't AFK, now is it?

Amarrbone
Posted - 2010.11.11 21:32:00 - [11]
 

Unprobable ships are still vulnerable at gates and stations and they are not unkillable in any way, shape, or form. If you happen to catch one they are easier to kill then their counter parts due to less tank and DPS. That is the trade off.

Your whines are the same. They put something in the game that you don't like and instead of dealing with it you complain about it. I've even seen highsec dwellers using them as a deterant to systems with ninjas in them and I love it!

Seriously Bored
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.11.11 21:56:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Seriously Bored on 11/11/2010 21:58:35
Originally by: Baudolino
Everything gets balanced. Missiles got balanced 3-4 times in the years i`ve played. Stacking penalties, nos nerf and of course the speed nerf..


Angel ships, Hybrids, the overarching FW structure, and Planetville would like to have a word with you. There's a long laundry list of things that that need fixing that are more important than this, and have been ignored plenty.

Let's add general capital ship balance to the mix as well.

Lady Thanatos
Nomadic Shadows
Posted - 2010.11.11 22:05:00 - [13]
 

Its easy to catch unprobable ships...

Just wait until their probability drive messes up and they land next to you YARRRR!!

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2010.11.11 22:56:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Omara Otawan on 11/11/2010 23:00:57
Originally by: Donde Esta

Except use its probes


Huh? It can probe stuff just fine, warp other ships (preferrably cloakies, duh!) on top of the result, etc.


As far as OP goes, the only true issue I can see is the all-in-one package deal, i.e. bubble immunity, cloak, unprobable as well as (extremely effective gang links OR proper pve performance).

Dunno, doesnt seem perfectly balanced as far as risk vs reward goes, but its not as it would make the sky fall on my head. Could be worse, it could have fighterbombers and a billion EHP...

Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
Posted - 2010.11.11 23:36:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore
How about as soon as PVP and PVE get balanced so that people running missions in low sec are able to defend themselves from bottom feeders such as yourself?

Unprobable ships are the counter to the stupidly easy probing system that provides people like you with risk free killmails.

Catch em in transit and suck it up.


It's incredible how bad some people are.

I ran missions in low sec and 0.0 on and off for years without t3 and I have yet to die doing them.

There is no doubt being probed often is frustrating. However in order to actually die in a mission you either need to be very unlucky or plainly BRAIN DEAD. 99% of people I killed in missions have only themselves to blame for getting killed, ignoring local, ignoring probes on scan, ignoring a ship on scan, ignoring pretty much each and every of so many defensive tools that they had available. Even last ditch measures like being aligned. Or not sitting still on warp to zero point behind acceleration gate. Or... anything really. How many consecutive fails are required to get killed, it's amazing come to think of it.

Now the other day I finally trained minmatar cruiser 5, got a loki, decided to do some low sec mission running for fun to see how it goes. It's hilarious to say the least, I'm in a system with up to 15-20 neutrals of which many are outlaws and without a single friend, there's literally NOTHING anyone can do about it. And no you can't "catch em in transit" because there are such things as cloaking subsystems and interdiction nulifiers. Go to the system where mission is with cloak and bubble immunity if in 0.0, dock, fit back to normal setup, do the mission. Dock, fit cloak, go back to agent. Oh my the ballance. Low security space indeed, so dangerous.

Feilamya
Pain Elemental
Posted - 2010.11.12 00:00:00 - [16]
 

On a long enough time scale, the probability of every ship drops to zero...

Murev Vorchilde
Caldari
End Game.
Posted - 2010.11.12 04:17:00 - [17]
 

unprobable doesnt mean unfindable, especially when they go afk thinking they are safe YARRRR!!

Socio Stan
Posted - 2010.11.12 04:28:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Murev Vorchilde
unprobable doesnt mean unfindable, especially when they go afk thinking they are safe YARRRR!!


So, like, this one time this guy decides to be annoying and name his unprobable T3 something to insult my mother. He then afks it in my home system afk all day long.

He had a half decent safespot, so it took me about 4 hours of warping and making safespots and burning toward him but I finally landed my intie on grid.

He didn't do that again. He also raged and called me a hacker. Many lulz were had.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.11.12 05:30:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Vrabac
I ran missions in low sec and 0.0 on and off for years without t3 and I have yet to die doing them.


+1. Well, I died once to the rats. Embarassed

-Liang

fogbird
Gallente
Posted - 2010.11.12 10:56:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Murev Vorchilde
unprobable doesnt mean unfindable, especially when they go afk thinking they are safe YARRRR!!


indeed!

Petrov Kreigt
Caldari
Asteroids Civil Rights Union
D'Haran Empire.
Posted - 2010.11.12 12:02:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore
How about as soon as PVP and PVE get balanced so that people running missions in low sec are able to defend themselves from bottom feeders such as yourself?

Unprobable ships are the counter to the stupidly easy probing system that provides people like you with risk free killmails.

Catch em in transit and suck it up.


Luls at the buttheart bear who died in his mission

GO do some pirating and obtain some "risk free" killmails

To the OP, i agree as afk unprobably fleet boosters are annoying as sin, but theres little we can do about them

Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.11.12 14:47:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Petrov Kreigt
Originally by: Skex Relbore
How about as soon as PVP and PVE get balanced so that people running missions in low sec are able to defend themselves from bottom feeders such as yourself?

Unprobable ships are the counter to the stupidly easy probing system that provides people like you with risk free killmails.

Catch em in transit and suck it up.


Luls at the buttheart bear who died in his mission

GO do some pirating and obtain some "risk free" killmails

To the OP, i agree as afk unprobably fleet boosters are annoying as sin, but theres little we can do about them


The last KM I see on your board that had a point was Morphe's Rifter 20 days ago and it took you 5 to kill him.

Lol at being called a carebear by you.

Do you ever fight anything other than PVE fits?

A quick perusal of your last 20 kills shows a whopping 3 kills of actual PVP fit ships. Everything else you've killed has been a PVE fit so don't talk to me about risk you little ***** because you apparently don't believe in taking any.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.11.12 14:59:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Skex Relbore

My e-peen is bigger than yours so neener neener neener.



FYP - also, no one cares.


Socio Stan
Posted - 2010.11.12 15:03:00 - [24]
 

Quote:
New Incursion Stuff

•Toggling probes in overview

Shocked

I don't think any mission runner has much to worry about, whether they use a T3 or not.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.11.12 15:08:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Socio Stan
Quote:
New Incursion Stuff

•Toggling probes in overview

Shocked

I don't think any mission runner has much to worry about, whether they use a T3 or not.


I've already created a "Probes Only" tab on my overview for use with my D-scan. Very Happy CCP is the awesomest.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.11.12 15:15:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Socio Stan
Quote:
New Incursion Stuff

•Toggling probes in overview
Shocked

I don't think any mission runner has much to worry about, whether they use a T3 or not.
That's been possible for ages — they're just adding the option directly to the UI.

Mavnas
Posted - 2010.11.12 15:27:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Seriously BoredAngel ships, Hybrids, the overarching FW structure, and Planetville would like to have a word with you. There's a long laundry list of things that that need fixing that are more important than this, and have been ignored plenty.

Let's add general capital ship balance to the mix as well.[/quote



Ooh! I think I figured out how to fix the first two. Switch angel bonuses to be for Hybrids. Balance issue solved Shocked.

Mavnas
Posted - 2010.11.12 15:31:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Vrabac
Originally by: Skex Relbore
How about as soon as PVP and PVE get balanced so that people running missions in low sec are able to defend themselves from bottom feeders such as yourself?

Unprobable ships are the counter to the stupidly easy probing system that provides people like you with risk free killmails.

Catch em in transit and suck it up.


It's incredible how bad some people are.

I ran missions in low sec and 0.0 on and off for years without t3 and I have yet to die doing them.

There is no doubt being probed often is frustrating. However in order to actually die in a mission you either need to be very unlucky or plainly BRAIN DEAD. 99% of people I killed in missions have only themselves to blame for getting killed, ignoring local, ignoring probes on scan, ignoring a ship on scan, ignoring pretty much each and every of so many defensive tools that they had available. Even last ditch measures like being aligned. Or not sitting still on warp to zero point behind acceleration gate. Or... anything really. How many consecutive fails are required to get killed, it's amazing come to think of it.

Now the other day I finally trained minmatar cruiser 5, got a loki, decided to do some low sec mission running for fun to see how it goes. It's hilarious to say the least, I'm in a system with up to 15-20 neutrals of which many are outlaws and without a single friend, there's literally NOTHING anyone can do about it. And no you can't "catch em in transit" because there are such things as cloaking subsystems and interdiction nulifiers. Go to the system where mission is with cloak and bubble immunity if in 0.0, dock, fit back to normal setup, do the mission. Dock, fit cloak, go back to agent. Oh my the ballance. Low security space indeed, so dangerous.


And how much, DPS, speed, and tank are you giving up for all those subsystems allowing you to not get caught and cloak? It's the perfect example of risk vs. reward. You mitigate risks by giving up the stats that let you get more ISK/hr.


Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.11.12 15:38:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Socio Stan
Quote:
New Incursion Stuff

•Toggling probes in overview

Shocked

I don't think any mission runner has much to worry about, whether they use a T3 or not.


Probing down mission runners is still going to be ridiculously easy.

The irony about this is after all the whining I've seen people doing about a lack targets in low sec any mechanic that results in more targets in low sec like unprobable Mission runners brings the cry of NERF NERF from the very people who chant HTFU when someone suggests a change that would favor their prey.

Personally I think mission spaces should be safer in low sec. That deadspace should have effects that make scanning more difficult not necessarily impossible just much more difficult.

Understand the safer the mission is the more people will actually venture into low sec. More people in low sec means more potential targets for you in the long run. Sacrifice the ability to gank the bears in mission spaces and you'll get more chances to gank them on gates and stations.

They get used to living in lower security space they might even be more interested in engaging in a little PVP themselves.

If not for the potential exploit of being able to hide a fleet in them I'd say make deadspace completely unprobable.

The very fact that low sec is such a wasteland is plenty of evidence that the balance of power between predator and prey is tilted to far in the favor of prey.

Low sec has been hunted out to the point that the only people missioning are newbs who don't know any better yet and bitter vets who either mission in out of the way places and safe up the second any hostile enters a system or are flying around in the unprobable T3's you are crying about here.

lower the risk to the bears a little and you'll get more chances to kill some. Make it even riskier and you'll lose what few opportunities you have.

The unprobable gang bonus giver is a little imbalanced but it's not any different than a neutral booster in high sec and any ship that's safed up to provide bonus's is one ship that isn't on the field to help directly.

Besides as common as the practice is the odds are both sides have their own unprobable bonus giver so it evens out.

Once again this is just another thread from failed PvPers begging CCP to change the mechanic to give them more easy kills.

Little hint here. If the mechanic was changed so that these ships weren't unprobable you wouldn't get the opportunity to farm those juicy killmails because those pilots wouldn't be running lowsec missions in T3's anymore.

It's just like the whines asking L4s to be moved to low sec. If that happened all those bears wouldn't start running mission in low sec in their juicy officer fit faction ships.

All that would happen would be the price on CNR's would plummet and people would start farming L3s in pimped out Drakes.



Buzz Killingdon
Posted - 2010.11.12 15:44:00 - [30]
 

Forgive my ignorance, but what is an unprobable ship? As in, how do you make a ship unprobable without a cloaking device?


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