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blankseplocked Public CSM roundtable, november 21st 19:00
 
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Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.21 21:26:00 - [31]
 

full transcript available here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CSM_roundtable_transcript

Fuyu'no Kiri
Beauvoir-Bourdieu
Posted - 2010.11.21 22:02:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Minigin
if i hear one more csm make an excuse about why nothing will change rather than how we can either convinse/force ccp to look at issues... just do the job you have been elected to do. if you cant please step aside for someone with a better idea of how to get things done.[/limegreen]


It's either you or me but some one misunderstood something here. For what I gather, the CSM is a purely advisory body, towards CCP. We, players or CSM, will never compel CCP to anything (and that's just right so).

As of the CSM members, they've not been elected to some CCP board of directors. They are here to sort out our requests and remarks and voice them to CCP. Whatever comes out of it in the end, whether a mammoth or peanuts, they commit themselves to a lot of work with not much in return except, if they're lucky enough, a little bit of gratitude.

I am not saying they should be adulated either, but to despise them because "nothing will change" is just unfair: that's not part of their jurisdiction.

Memorya
Posted - 2010.11.21 23:11:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
full transcript available here: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CSM_roundtable_transcript



Only good thing is black op's fix. Everthing else i wont comment, becouse some one will cry.

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2010.11.22 03:57:00 - [34]
 

Nice event. Its good to be able to directly ask the csm some questions. Nice job moderating DV.

Mirei Jun
Right to Rule
THE UNTHINKABLES
Posted - 2010.11.22 04:44:00 - [35]
 

I was unable to make this, but the effort by the CSM is appreciated.

It is, however disheartening to see this thread got a whole 2 pages of replies while incessant whine threads get tens of pages of replies.

-Reading the transcript now. Thanks again.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.11.22 11:35:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Mirei Jun
I was unable to make this, but the effort by the CSM is appreciated.

It is, however disheartening to see this thread got a whole 2 pages of replies while incessant whine threads get tens of pages of replies.

-Reading the transcript now. Thanks again.


It makes me sob sometimes :(

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.22 12:45:00 - [37]
 

Thanks for taking the lead on this Round Table, Dierdra. You did a great job on all of it! Sorry I could only be present for part of it, the wiki transcript was a good read and that is a nice editing job...again, thanks!


Not T'amber
Posted - 2010.11.22 22:01:00 - [38]
 

Great idea and thanks for the effort!

Its a pitty that Helen Highwater and Alpha were not in attendance this would have been a great oppurtunity for the community to see them in action and to meet them in person.





Massive Dragon
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2010.11.24 05:49:00 - [39]
 

... you have got to be kidding me...


there are 8 csm threads on your internal forums you say? mmmmmmm well that ends my involvement in trying to get you guys to do anything.

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.24 10:58:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 24/11/2010 11:00:25
Originally by: Massive Dragon
... you have got to be kidding me...


there are 8 csm threads on your internal forums you say? mmmmmmm well that ends my involvement in trying to get you guys to do anything.



8 pages of threads. Every page has 29 threads, so you do the math.

Originally by: Mynxee
When we took office, there were 4 pages of threads on our internal forums. There are now 8,...


I guess reading isn't always easy.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.24 12:16:00 - [41]
 

♥ DV


Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Posted - 2010.11.24 16:23:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Mirei Jun
I was unable to make this, but the effort by the CSM is appreciated.

It is, however disheartening to see this thread got a whole 2 pages of replies while incessant whine threads get tens of pages of replies.

-Reading the transcript now. Thanks again.


Why? Pretty much nothing but a reflection of the percentage of players/accounts that actually still can be bothered to vote for CSM. What did you expect? 20+ pages threadnaught? C'mon, we all know how CCP likes to ignore those repeatedly, better to have some quality instead of quantity. Wink

Cearain
Caldari
The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
Posted - 2010.11.24 18:50:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 24/11/2010 11:00:25
Originally by: Massive Dragon
... you have got to be kidding me...


there are 8 csm threads on your internal forums you say? mmmmmmm well that ends my involvement in trying to get you guys to do anything.



8 pages of threads. Every page has 29 threads, so you do the math.

Originally by: Mynxee
When we took office, there were 4 pages of threads on our internal forums. There are now 8,...


I guess reading isn't always easy.


Actually I would prefer if most of the csm discussion was here on eve-o in the jita park, assembly hall and features and ideas forums. I would prefer it if the csm actually discussed ideas with the players rather than with themselves. I see more than a few assembly hall topics were voted on by csm even though the csm member never mentioned what or why they would vote a certain way in assembly hall.

If you’re not interested enough in a topic to throw your ideas out in assembly hall so you can consider what the players think of them, then maybe you should sit that vote out.

I understand CCP used to interact with players on the forums. Now I suppose CCP thinks they can leave it to the csm to do this. If the CSM no longer does this, then the csm is simply distancing the players even further from ccp.

I think this csm is doing a great job. But this is one thing I think they can do better. The round table was nice but that format doesn’t really allow the sort of follow up that a forum posting does. Share more of your ideas and thoughts with the players on these forums that are specifically set up for that purpose.



Massive Dragon
Genos Occidere
Posted - 2010.11.25 03:21:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 24/11/2010 11:00:25
Originally by: Massive Dragon
... you have got to be kidding me...


there are 8 csm threads on your internal forums you say? mmmmmmm well that ends my involvement in trying to get you guys to do anything.



8 pages of threads. Every page has 29 threads, so you do the math.

Originally by: Mynxee
When we took office, there were 4 pages of threads on our internal forums. There are now 8,...


I guess reading isn't always easy.


yes well sorry i did misread that, but you cant really blame me, as it would seem pretty in line with what we can visibly see your effect being.

you were elected by the player base to make a difference, yet for the most part any real changes that are suggested by players you play ccps advocate and try to make excuses for why we shouldnt expect changes such as those being suggested.

im gonna give you a news flash, no one cares what csms real purpose is... the only reason we vote for any of you is because we think we can give you the power to make changes for our benefit.

but apparently you cant even stop microtransactions... maybe you should take a page out of t'ambers book.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:58:00 - [45]
 

I look forward to your candidacy in the next CSM election, Dragon.

All of us clueless and ineffective CSMs would really appreciate you getting elected to the council so you can show us how it's done.

Fuyu'no Kiri
Beauvoir-Bourdieu
Posted - 2010.11.26 17:31:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Massive Dragon
im gonna give you a news flash, no one cares what csms real purpose is... the only reason we vote for any of you is because we think we can give you the power to make changes for our benefit.


Wowowow... what exactly do you mean by "changes for our benefit"?

And indeed, while you obviously don't care for "their real purpose" (whatever you might believe that could mean), you ought to learn the difference between "representation" and "votecatching".

And please, quit lamegreening ;-P

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.11.27 21:27:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 27/11/2010 21:27:29
Originally by: Massive Dragon
yes well sorry i did misread that, but you cant really blame me, as it would seem pretty in line with what we can visibly see your effect being.


You seem to have no problem criticizing imaginary mistakes other people make, why can't we blame you for yours?

Originally by: Massive Dragon
you were elected by the player base to make a difference, yet for the most part any real changes that are suggested by players you play ccps advocate and try to make excuses for why we shouldnt expect changes such as those being suggested.


Your fondest wishes don't change reality. I'm not 100% convinced by all of CCP's "We can't do that because..." arguments, but a lot of them are perfectly valid. The CSM can ***** all they want, but it won't change what the genuine problems are. We elect an advisory council, not a dev team - it's not going to be everything I could dream of, but it seems to be a major improvement on what has come before.

Originally by: Massive Dragon
but apparently you cant even stop microtransactions... maybe you should take a page out of t'ambers book.


Funny story - they did stop microtransactions.

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.11.29 21:06:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Mynxee on 29/11/2010 21:07:20
Originally by: Cearain
Actually I would prefer if most of the csm discussion was here on eve-o in the jita park, assembly hall and features and ideas forums. I would prefer it if the csm actually discussed ideas with the players rather than with themselves. I see more than a few assembly hall topics were voted on by csm even though the csm member never mentioned what or why they would vote a certain way in assembly hall.

If you’re not interested enough in a topic to throw your ideas out in assembly hall so you can consider what the players think of them, then maybe you should sit that vote out.

I understand CCP used to interact with players on the forums. Now I suppose CCP thinks they can leave it to the csm to do this. If the CSM no longer does this, then the csm is simply distancing the players even further from ccp.

I think this csm is doing a great job. But this is one thing I think they can do better. The round table was nice but that format doesn’t really allow the sort of follow up that a forum posting does. Share more of your ideas and thoughts with the players on these forums that are specifically set up for that purpose.


While I agree that CSM/player engagement on the forums is somewhat lacking (I am guilty myself), it's a fact that there is only so much time in the day that can be devoted to CSM stuff.

The conversations that take place in the internal CSM forums are often process-related or bound by NDA constraints; they cannot feasibly involve nor be shared with players but they are a vital element in the effectiveness of the CSM.

I feel the CSM should do more to keep players informed about their routine activities. Inspired by one such request, I am attempting to address that information gap with the recently created CSM5 Activity Update wiki page. It might be worthwhile to list the discussion topics we are addressing with devs under Ongoing Projects, including which CCPians are involved. I need to ask our CCP advocates if this is okay to do. But I think players might find that interesting...especially if the topic status is identified (active, inactive, concluded).

Also, fwiw, I do try when upvoting or opposing AH proposals to make a comment or two about reasons for my support (or lack of it). Sometimes the benefits of a proposed change are so blatantly clear that not much needs to be said.

Johnathan Walker
Caldari
Posted - 2010.11.30 00:10:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Mynxee


Also, fwiw,




And also fwiw, CSM's working really damn hard to work for YOU and to be honest, always whining and complaining about CSM this or CSM that isn't helpful, Mister Dragon-breath.

Like Mr. Trump says... I hate people who don't have solutions. In other words, come up with a solution to go with your complaint. Don't just ***** and moan.

But hey, looking forward to your application in CSM 6 since you seem to be pro.



PS. <3 Mynxee, DV, T.Daze n Trebozzzz000000rrrsz.

Uronksur Suth
Posted - 2010.11.30 08:39:00 - [50]
 

My dear CSM, please remember that for every hysterical whiner on these forums, there are those of us who <3 you. ughCoolVery HappyLaughing

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.30 11:31:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Uronksur Suth
My dear CSM, please remember that for every hysterical whiner on these forums, there are those of us who <3 you. ughCoolVery HappyLaughing

Yeah, but... you never write, you never call...

Pesets
The Hunt Club
Posted - 2010.12.02 02:44:00 - [52]
 

Writing to say thank you to all CSM delegates for putting their time into this :)

Though, as i mentioned in the voting thread, it would be better to have the issues broken down into categories that can be worked on by a specific team, and have a separate vote within each category.

Not T'amber
Posted - 2010.12.02 05:12:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Massive Dragon
but apparently you cant even stop microtransactions... maybe you should take a page out of t'ambers book.


Funny story - they did stop microtransactions.


If you are talking about the page where you can colour in mynxee's hat you'll find I already ripped it out and gave it to the csm.

ps. herschel smells funny. Laughing


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