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blankseplocked Battleship offence vs. Battleship defense
 
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Molly
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.06.29 12:56:00 - [1]
 

Ywev stated: "Ya, RUS did a very good job, I am proud of them. I know that more people are gonna feel the pain of RUS shortly, my bship lasted oh just 5 shots, with hardeners on. J0rt's lasted a bit longer, about 8-10 shots. Not much can stand up to 1400-1900 a shot. Congrats RUS, I knew you would be one of our top competitors. :)"

So CCP, when are we going to see large shield boosters and shield modulators to compensate (for some time, not for ever :P) the damage battleships are dealing?

92 shield bonus my Large Clarity Ward Booster I would give me. Using all med slots of a Dominix e.g. this be 5 x 92 (around 500 points each 3,4 seconds without any skills). I think each activation time of this boosters would be at least one shot of (Ywev's) 1400-1900 dmg. So we end up with 500 shield bonus vs 1400-1900 applying damage. 3-4 shots to destroy the shields of a battleship.

This does not happen while in Cruiser versus Cruiser combat. No cruiser was able to destroy the shields of my Thorax with activated boosters and modulators in 3-4 shots.

Any comments? Am I somehow totally wrong? Or do we need an fix asap here?

Valeria
Caldari
The Spang
Posted - 2003.06.29 13:05:00 - [2]
 

*cough* Surgical Strike + Weapon upgrades

Molly
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.06.29 13:10:00 - [3]
 

Partly.

GMs have investigated in someone's setup (ca. 4000 dmg in 2 seconds). This person was flying an also an Armageddon and also a RUS member :P. It wasn't a Surgical Strike bug setup.

Take a cough drop.

Gurenus
RUS
Posted - 2003.06.29 13:19:00 - [4]
 

IMHO Such high damage happens because bonuses at skills as small projectile and med projectile are acumulated and if included other gunnery skills and hydrostabilizers that would create such high damage. As I know in next patch this isue will be resolved.

Valeria
Caldari
The Spang
Posted - 2003.06.29 13:23:00 - [5]
 

I'd say it's more than partly. Weapon upgrades can each have a modifier of 1.2305, much higher than before they were "fixed". And with the amount of low-slots on those Battleships ...

Madcow
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2003.06.29 14:00:00 - [6]
 

Well it is so stupid that the large weapons are on the market and the polaris guys may not use it because they are unballenced.

soltys
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2003.06.29 14:29:00 - [7]
 

Molly, some math (valid as 1077):

hypothetical guy, puts 7 dual 425 scouts and 8 gyrostabilizers I in Armageddon battleship.

additionally, he has lvl4 surgical, lvl4 medium, lvl4 small, (bonus values as in 1077).

(1.08*1.12)^8*1.12*1.2*1.2*3.9 ==...

So, we'll end with damage_mod ~= x28.8 for single gun (do the math yourself :) ). Gyros I (8 of them stacking with surgical) give x4.6 themselves (GM said it's not a problem ? geez). Well, surgical bug alone gives x1.57 more damage itself, with additional x1.2 thanks to stacking medium and small.

Shield damage for single shot of one gun with such ship's setup, skills and medium emp ammo is: 449.
7 guns put online at once means: 2800
some of shots will be "excellent", "well placed", "wrecking". So 4000 is much more realistic number.

After monday, typical sigle shot damage will be:
181.62 (with this setup)

I remember some time ago, that someone suggested to turn off gyrostabiliers stacking. Or link every one of them with single gun. That might be actually pretty good solution.

ps
Of course, there may be some other bugs upping damage :P. 1400 - 1900 in one shot is still a lot, even for wrecking shot and all the current bugs.

Edited by: soltys on 29/06/2003 14:33:48

Damon Vile
Amarr
AUS Corporation
CORE.
Posted - 2003.06.29 15:05:00 - [8]
 

449 damage is a big hit for a med projectile right now. We've had hits in the 600 range though.

But that damage is only with med projectiles, the ppl in rus where useing heavys.

IMO I don't think the up coming patch will do enough to lower combat damage but it's a good start.

Aerick Dawn
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2003.06.29 15:23:00 - [9]
 

On monday, the patch should take care of the weapon/mod stacking problem. How many people had to die for that one though.....ugh

DrSeuss
Gallente
Phoenix Propulsion Labs
Posted - 2003.06.29 15:26:00 - [10]
 

"my bship lasted oh just 5 shots"

This to me is just insane. The damage from guns in the game is way out of hand. This isnt someone who just got a B-Ship and cant afford to equipt it properly, I dont know her setup but Im sure she was prepared. Now if she was in a Cruiser, 5 hits from a B-Ship sounds right.
Anyone else remember pre-release when they said combat would be a thinking game? Did they mean thinking of running?
IMO, ANY class of ship vs its own class should last longer than 5 hits no matter how it is equipted.

Ywev
Minmatar
Posted - 2003.06.29 15:28:00 - [11]
 

can't do much when devs just said the armageddon is overpowered and has almost an infinate amount of power. RUS fitted 7 1400mm cannons on both bships, so, it was a bug they knew about it, and didn't say anything. :)

so if ya see a armageddon run until patch day :)


StoreSlem
Minmatar
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2003.06.29 15:37:00 - [12]
 

Put a few shield hardeners on your ship and your effective shields can approach the million.

soltys
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2003.06.29 15:43:00 - [13]
 

Well, if they put large weapons, that means around twice the damage of my example (with emp L per single shot). Then 1400 - 1900 per shot doesn't look too surprising.

I still love frigates :P

Valeria
Caldari
The Spang
Posted - 2003.06.29 16:38:00 - [14]
 

Oh my, there are weapon upgrades HIGHER than 1.07 now, buyable on market at that?

Technolisa
Amarr
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2003.06.29 17:05:00 - [15]
 

Just wanted to tell u that we dont use Large Guns :)

Technolisa
Amarr
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2003.06.29 17:11:00 - [16]
 

and we dont have 28.8 dam mod :)

soltys
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2003.06.29 17:15:00 - [17]
 

@Technolisa

:)
Could you tell me, what damage modifier a single gun mounted on your undocked battleship has (with setup you used during fighting with j0rt )? I'll try to reverseengineer your skills ;)

@Valeria:

I dunno - I just took gyrostabilizer I stats. 1.07 or 1.065 won't differ that much.


Edited by: soltys on 29/06/2003 17:19:47

Technolisa
Amarr
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2003.06.29 17:30:00 - [18]
 

We will sell u our battleship (m0o killer) full equiped for 1,000,000,000 isk

hehehe :)

soltys
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2003.06.29 17:33:00 - [19]
 

heh :)

Come on, I'm only trying to be scientist ;)

Ywev
Minmatar
Posted - 2003.06.29 17:53:00 - [20]
 

It's already been verified, dev's know about it, and have known about it for quite some time, so after patch the battle will be alot better. Btw, we did have 3 shield hardners on each, but shields came off in a volley.


XflygoldX
Condition Zero
Posted - 2003.06.29 18:02:00 - [21]
 

Soltys, sorry if I got your name wrong. I have sug 4, small proj 4, med proj 4 and 5 of those 1.07 mods you used in your math. Yet I only have 14.65x dmg mod. With your math I should have just over 20. I don't think we are seeing the stacking problem in the manner you have suggested it.

Edited by: XflygoldX on 29/06/2003 18:05:10

soltys
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2003.06.29 18:21:00 - [22]
 

On what gun ?
anyway, with 5 gyros and dual 425 you would get:
either:
(1.07*1.12)^5*1.2*1.12*3.9 ~= 12.9
or:
(1.07*1.12)^5*1.2*1.12*1.2*3.9 ~= 15.5

depending if small and medium projectiles stack or don't stack in your case. And assuming no other bonuses.

----------

Well, whatever it is with battleships and their damage, good to know that devs know about it and are after it :)


Edited by: soltys on 29/06/2003 18:22:35

Technolisa
Amarr
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2003.06.29 18:59:00 - [23]
 

Molly is just too cute :)

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2003.06.29 21:20:00 - [24]
 

Lets see:

If you have small turret 4, medium turret 4 and large turret 3. SS lvl 4.

With the 1400mm 4.0x standard. And 8 low slots.
4.0*1.2*1.2*1.15*1.12*(1.19)^8=29.83x dmg
To hit for 1400dmg means the ammo itself just have to do 47dmg.

THX CCP!

Now the 3 shield hardeners on is worrying with that damage after passing them.

After monday it will "only" be 9.23x So still some 500dmg per shot. And with 7 guns. Thats about 1 shooting a cruiser. 3500dmg per round of guns fired. And thats after patch.

Im training Gallente Industrial V now. Since my battleship would be vaporized in 10sec. Megathron mining in 1.0sec sector o_O?

ShadowStrike
Shadow Tech Industries
Posted - 2003.06.29 22:46:00 - [25]
 

Actually ran into Technolisa of Rus today in my little Vexor. Their battleships are far from perfect. Just get inside of 5km and they miss on nearly every shot. She fired a full barage on my little Vexor and only managed 1 shot at 281 damage, all of the rest were misses. So the lesson of this story is: Get in close and the battleships are screwed. I warped out of course, im not stupid to go 1 on 1 against a battleship.

This is good news, since it means smaller ships will have a role in future engagements.

Molly
Gallente
Doomheim
Posted - 2003.06.30 00:22:00 - [26]
 

Sorry Shadowstrike, but I got wasted from close range.

If I am that cute Technolisa, stop shooting me! *hugs and kisses*

Lem0nparty
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2007.09.19 21:04:00 - [27]
 

damn russian *****z!

Thanos Draicon
Wolf Pack Mentality
Blood and Steel
Posted - 2007.09.19 21:05:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 19/09/2007 21:05:46
NECRO NECRO NECRO NECRO NECRO NECRO NECRO NECRO NECRO

Gabriel Karade
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2007.09.19 21:06:00 - [29]
 

It's not big, it's not funny, you ARE a tard for necro'ing such an old thread.


Amazoph
Gallente
The Caldari Confederation
Power Of 3
Posted - 2007.09.19 21:07:00 - [30]
 

Enough with the frikking necros ALREADY! Evil or Very Mad


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