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T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.10.22 19:21:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: T''Amber on 04/11/2010 04:05:18
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tamber/microtransactionprotest.MP4
Protesting outside Icelandic Parliment


I formally hand my resignation in as 1st Alternate on the CSM

T'amber is now in the process of being sold, for the same reason I have quit the CSM and I will edit this thread to reflect the ownership change as soon as it has happened.

Originally by: "T'amber"
Quote:
Stop over-reacting. The game will still be fun even after Micro-transactions. Take a deep breath and chill.


There is no mention of Eve being less fun, and from what was seen in Iceland the opposite will be true.

Due to my stance on Microtransactions as the character T'amber I can not in good conscience purchase PLEX. While the effort I put into the game returns a high emotional reward (and I get to meet some cool people) with the coming changes to the payment model and the way that I personally play this is nolonger enough for me nor do I wish to continue paying cash for the amount of work and effort that I put into the game and the community.

While I am completely aware of the benefits and pitfalls of plex along with the logic for, and arguments against microtransactions - I've made my descision based on how I currenly play the game and how I roleplay my characters.

I will probably return because this is a ****inging great game with an awesome community, but my playstyle and expectations will be different and I'll be playing a different character with a alternate end goal - all tailored to this new payment model.


As a point of interest I'd like to note that I still love the game and everything we saw while in Iceland for the latest CSM/CCP meeting was extremely positive, especially the effort CCP is putting towards fixing lag and the general plans they have for the game. However I would rather pay a couple of extra dollars per account and have the oppurtunity to use isk (than have to fork out real money) to get access to these suspiciously labeled "Vanity Items".

If you'd like to leave me a message do so here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1403554
Thank you to everyone who voted for me and supported me through CSM4 and CSM5, I will never forget this experience. Hopefully I will be back again with a new endgame plan unrestricted by my current playstyle.

All proceeds from my sales will be paid out as dividends to Ships Of Eve shareholders.
My personal assests are being given away for free this Sunday the 31st, from 16:30eve time onwards.


Relevant Links:

Quote:
Originally by: "CCP Rep"
Yeah, we are looking at introducing virtual goods within the game, but we feel those things should be vanity items rather than those that give you a clear benefit over other players in-game.
That said, we are introducing a feature this expansion [Incursion], that does allow you to re-map your attributes using Pilot Licence Extensions, which are bought both in-game and on our website. PLEX represents 30-days subscription within the game.
We will evolve just like everyone else.
We will certainly not become a dinosaur.
That has not been our style.



-T'amber

Double Dee
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.10.22 20:00:00 - [2]
 

lol!!!

i don't think you will find that new wow expansion 'cataclysm' to be fun. maybe you can accomplish something meaningful there.

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Ravenzfire
Caldari
New Eden Scientific Association
Posted - 2010.10.22 22:38:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Ravenzfire on 23/10/2010 01:24:21
I assume this decision is a result of CCP moving forword with PLEX for remap.

While I personally don't have a huge issue with PLEX/remap I can understand people's concern for the game to move into full blown micro transaction territory, which I don't think anyone wants.

Your decision to get rid of everything seems a bit rash and or overkill but I imagine you've given it sufficient thought and I can respect someone who can follow through with their convictions instead of threats to leave the game to try and influence decision making.

I've never interacted with you but always felt you were a stand up player who did great things for the community through your events and CSM work. Your presence will be missed.

Good luck with wherever your path takes you and fly safe Smile

captain foivos
Posted - 2010.10.22 22:52:00 - [4]
 

Can I...have your stuff?


Also, thanks for representing the average EVE player. You did a pretty good job.

mazzilliu
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.10.23 05:05:00 - [5]
 

NNNnnnnoooooooooo.....


I will never forget the awesome stuff we did in iceland! you should post that video where we protested microtransactions in front of parliament, seriously funny stuff. I am glad to have met you and it makes me sad that it might be the last time i see you.

you should seriously consider keeping at least one character though, just in case you change your mind over the months or years and decide you want to come back. i mean the isk you get from selling your chars will do no good for you anyways.

T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.10.23 05:26:00 - [6]
 


MaBalls YoMouth
Posted - 2010.10.25 10:42:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: T'Amber
Edited by: T''Amber on 22/10/2010 19:26:06
I formally hand my resignation in as 1st Alternate on the CSM.

Any posts in this thread and the Assembly hall after this post will not be from me (Paul) the original owner as I am selling all my characters and assets. Apologies if I've let any of you down, but this is no longer the game for me.

If you'd like to leave me a message do so here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1403554
Thank you to everyone who voted for me and supported me through CSM4 and CSM5, I will never forget this experience.

Goodluck!

-T'amber



Stop over-reacting. The game will still be fun even after Micro-transactions. Take a deep breath and chill.

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.25 12:44:00 - [8]
 

Wow, I admire a Man of principle! Good Luck !

T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.10.25 21:58:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: T''Amber on 25/10/2010 23:34:19
fixed my post to make more sense

Originally by: MaBalls YoMouth

Stop over-reacting. The game will still be fun even after Micro-transactions. Take a deep breath and chill.



There is no mention of Eve being less fun, and from what was seen in Iceland the opposite will be true.

Due to my stance on Microtransactions as the character T'amber I can not in good conscience purchase PLEX. While the effort I put into the game returns a high emotional reward (and I get to meet some cool people) with the coming changes to the payment model and the way that I personally play this is nolonger enough for me nor do I wish to continue paying cash for the amount of work and effort that I put into the game and the community.

While I am completely aware of the benefits and pitfalls of plex along with the logic for, and arguments against microtransactions - I've made my descision based on how I currenly play the game and how I roleplay my characters.

I will probably return because this is a ****inging great game with an awesome community, but my playstyle and expectations will be different and I'll be playing a different character with a alternate end goal - all tailored to this new payment model.


-T'amber






MaBalls YoMouth
Posted - 2010.10.25 23:55:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: MaBalls YoMouth on 25/10/2010 23:56:46


I will probably return because this is a ****inging great game with an awesome community, but my playstyle and expectations will be different and I'll be playing a different character with a alternate end goal - all tailored to this new payment model.

-T'amber



Awesome dude. That's what I mean just take the game the way it is or will be and let it roll. You have done enough free work, support and promotion for CCP's game. I learned years ago never to lift a finger for a game company again unless I'm getting paid for it.

Grats you won EVE. Seriously.

Issler Dainze
Minmatar
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
Posted - 2010.10.26 01:43:00 - [11]
 

Can we get another 4 or 5 current CSMs to quit in time for me to get a trip to Iceland..... ;-)

I think I was #16 in the last election.....

Issler

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.26 02:43:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Issler Dainze
Can we get another 4 or 5 current CSMs to quit in time for me to get a trip to Iceland..... ;-)

I think I was #16 in the last election.....

Issler



GoodLuck - the way it's going I'd be making sure my Passport is in order & you got some Holiday time tucked up your sleeve! You could be on the next Plane out!SurprisedSurprisedSurprised

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2010.10.26 06:07:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: T'Amber

There is no mention of Eve being less fun, and from what was seen in Iceland the opposite will be true.

Due to my stance on Microtransactions as the character T'amber I can not in good conscience purchase PLEX. While the effort I put into the game returns a high emotional reward (and I get to meet some cool people) with the coming changes to the payment model and the way that I personally play this is nolonger enough for me nor do I wish to continue paying cash for the amount of work and effort that I put into the game and the community.

While I am completely aware of the benefits and pitfalls of plex along with the logic for, and arguments against microtransactions - I've made my descision based on how I currenly play the game and how I roleplay my characters.

I will probably return because this is a ****inging great game with an awesome community, but my playstyle and expectations will be different and I'll be playing a different character with a alternate end goal - all tailored to this new payment model.


-T'amber




And why is that a reason to step down from the CSM?

The players trusted you to have a good impact on the CSM and to get their voice (through you) to CCP.

Also - don't you think you could achive more and fight better against the worst of the microtransaction ideas when you still are CSM member and not stepped down?


And what the heck have microtransactions to do with your wonderful events?? Look at 'Hats for EVE' for example! Why wouldn't be that any worse or less fun with microtransactions? Why would your wonderful SOE events be worse?

I can see why you say that microtransactions and PLEX are bad, but I don't get it why you would be that badly affected.

Anyway, sorry to see you quitting. Best of luck in your future and thanks for all the wonderful events!

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.10.26 12:35:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: T'Amber
Due to my stance on Microtransactions as the character T'amber I can not in good conscience purchase PLEX.

... nor do I wish to continue paying cash for the amount of work and effort that I put into the game and the community.


I'm confused... you don't want to pay to play, and you don't want to play to pay?

Minigin
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.10.26 14:59:00 - [15]
 

what the hell are microtransactions? are they just litteraly what they sound like? or is it something worse?

Kile Kitmoore
Posted - 2010.10.26 16:39:00 - [16]
 

Good for you, nice to see someone standby their principals. I did the same when COH/COV decided to do the same, now look at the state they are in.

What I think a lot of people don't understand is RMT is a slippery slope. Today it's the remap but what if tomorrow I can PLEX for SP or a Titan? I will personally watch this carefully and when it starts to get into that nickel & dime nonsense so many other MMO's with subs & RMT try to do I will also walk.

The biggest problem with the "NO MT!" argument, I can already do these things in EVE. I can RMT a ton of PLEX's, sell them, and buy a character (the equivalent of PLEX for SP IMO) or buy that Titan. It's not spelled out to the player base but that system exists today and has for a long time.

I personally feel that the entire MMO genre will eventually be hurt as players will get tired of player advantages do to personal prosperity and burnt out on companies reaching into their pockets for every little pit of content. It's a greed that is not exclusive to MMO's, look at the growing DLC market.

Once again I wish you well T'Amber and thank you for taking a stand. It's one I am not ready to take, yet, but respect your decision.

ChrisIsherwood
Posted - 2010.10.26 16:59:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: ChrisIsherwood on 26/10/2010 19:58:51
Originally by: Minigin
what the hell are microtransactions? are they just litteraly what they sound like? or is it something worse?


microtransactions are the current FoTM in game pricing. 20-subscription.html A game company eliminating the $15/month subscription fee and seeing a 500% increase in revenue got the attention of competitors.

DUST 514 was announced to be F2P (free to play): without a subscription income (and in-game advertising not yet common ) the revenue comes from selling virtual items/benefits. (/troll this is more accessible than EVE's model of subscribe and train learning skills for two months. )

On a practical matter, EVE has been on the micro transaction side for quite a while. You can buy characters with whatever skill points your budget allows. Plex to ISK to purchasing whatever celestial steed I mean ship or module you need. Currently, anyone running L1s or mining purely for the 100k/hour and not enjoyment are doing so because they value their time at less than a half cent per hour. Similarly, as a new player your budget determines how much you mitigate the learning skills of EVE; stick with the +3 implants you got in your first hour or eventually have +5s?

Economist may think about the inflation and will the ISK faucets and sinks balance out but it is hard to see even CCP getting the faucet/sink wrong to the extend to have much impact on the size of the EVE economy.

On an emotional level, some really do not like the idea. CCP proposing eliminating the middleman (i.e. selling you skills directly instead of selling you plex that you convert into ISK and use to buy a toon ), raised the visibility of money for ingame advantage. CCP was naive if they did not expect pushback. Many games that remain subscription based (e.g. W*W) do not allow you to use real money to buy ingame advantage. And even have limits on what advantages you can transfer ingame. EVE Online has gotten past that quite a while ago. Which IMHO YMMV is a good thing; perhaps because EVE's older customer base is more familiar with employment and money?

--
Addendum: after writing the above, it turns out Champion Online has gone F2P. So funding games from microtransactions is a trend. Which is different than saying it is a good idea of course, but over time it may change customer's perceptions of microtransactions.

Klokvarg
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2010.10.26 19:07:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: T'Amber
I've made my descision based on how I currenly play the game and how I roleplay my characters.


Respect

o7

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.10.26 20:59:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Kile Kitmoore
What I think a lot of people don't understand is RMT is a slippery slope. Today it's the remap but what if tomorrow I can PLEX for SP or a Titan? I will personally watch this carefully and when it starts to get into that nickel & dime nonsense so many other MMO's with subs & RMT try to do I will also walk.


The secret is not to sit back and "watch carefully". The secret is to get involved, and make sure the CSM is echoing your sentiment into CCPs ears at every possible occasion: "CCP, we already have as much MT as makes sense in this game."

On the one hand we have LOTRO which significantly increased its short-term income by going F2P with all content being bought after the player starts adventuring. On the other hand we have D&D Online which fell on its face due to all content being bought after the player starts adventuring.

EVE Online already has microtransactions - you can buy anything in the game with real money. Buy PLEX, trade for ISK, use ISK to buy stuff you want.

The players need champions in the CSM to keep the "No neural remaps, no SP for ISK" opinion in CCPs faces. Players quitting the game over this issue only means that the anti-MT voice gets diluted.

Kile Kitmoore
Posted - 2010.10.27 03:28:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Kile Kitmoore
What I think a lot of people don't understand is RMT is a slippery slope. Today it's the remap but what if tomorrow I can PLEX for SP or a Titan? I will personally watch this carefully and when it starts to get into that nickel & dime nonsense so many other MMO's with subs & RMT try to do I will also walk.


The secret is not to sit back and "watch carefully". The secret is to get involved, and make sure the CSM is echoing your sentiment into CCPs ears at every possible occasion: "CCP, we already have as much MT as makes sense in this game."

On the one hand we have LOTRO which significantly increased its short-term income by going F2P with all content being bought after the player starts adventuring. On the other hand we have D&D Online which fell on its face due to all content being bought after the player starts adventuring.

EVE Online already has microtransactions - you can buy anything in the game with real money. Buy PLEX, trade for ISK, use ISK to buy stuff you want.

The players need champions in the CSM to keep the "No neural remaps, no SP for ISK" opinion in CCPs faces. Players quitting the game over this issue only means that the anti-MT voice gets diluted.



The problem, these are business decisions and no matter how loud and how many voices they hear they will probably view it as "the vocal minority". Even in the face of a mass exit they would probably place the decline on something else other then their "golden goose". Reading Mynxee's report on the last meeting I think it's safe to assume CSM is already in their face over the matter, T'Amber's resignation just elevated it.

As for LOTR going F2P, it's WAY to early to start throwing a party over the numbers they just reported. This is an MMO, continuity is EVERYTHING, going to wait to call that a success story. We also have Champions moving to F2P (Cryptic style, lol) so that will also be interesting to watch over time.

If CCP wants to push out more PLEX purchases why don't they do something REALLY different. They have a store with physical goods, why not allow me to buy something in it for PLEX's? Instead of these "virtual" gimmicks allow someone to actually buy physical goods using virtual money or items such as a PLEX. Do something different and unique that sets you apart from the rest of the industry.

T'Amber
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2010.10.27 03:36:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Kile Kitmoore
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Kile Kitmoore
What I think a lot of people don't understand is RMT is a slippery slope. Today it's the remap but what if tomorrow I can PLEX for SP or a Titan? I will personally watch this carefully and when it starts to get into that nickel & dime nonsense so many other MMO's with subs & RMT try to do I will also walk.


The secret is not to sit back and "watch carefully". The secret is to get involved, and make sure the CSM is echoing your sentiment into CCPs ears at every possible occasion: "CCP, we already have as much MT as makes sense in this game."

On the one hand we have LOTRO which significantly increased its short-term income by going F2P with all content being bought after the player starts adventuring. On the other hand we have D&D Online which fell on its face due to all content being bought after the player starts adventuring.

EVE Online already has microtransactions - you can buy anything in the game with real money. Buy PLEX, trade for ISK, use ISK to buy stuff you want.

The players need champions in the CSM to keep the "No neural remaps, no SP for ISK" opinion in CCPs faces. Players quitting the game over this issue only means that the anti-MT voice gets diluted.



The problem, these are business decisions and no matter how loud and how many voices they hear they will probably view it as "the vocal minority". Even in the face of a mass exit they would probably place the decline on something else other then their "golden goose". Reading Mynxee's report on the last meeting I think it's safe to assume CSM is already in their face over the matter, T'Amber's resignation just elevated it.

As for LOTR going F2P, it's WAY to early to start throwing a party over the numbers they just reported. This is an MMO, continuity is EVERYTHING, going to wait to call that a success story. We also have Champions moving to F2P (Cryptic style, lol) so that will also be interesting to watch over time.

If CCP wants to push out more PLEX purchases why don't they do something REALLY different. They have a store with physical goods, why not allow me to buy something in it for PLEX's? Instead of these "virtual" gimmicks allow someone to actually buy physical goods using virtual money or items such as a PLEX. Do something different and unique that sets you apart from the rest of the industry.



Do not worry, the full seated CSMs are all over this and me leaving will have no bearing in the overall strength of the anti-moremicrotransaction movement, as there is not one CSM who isn't against adding more of them to game.

-T'amber

Kile Kitmoore
Posted - 2010.10.27 03:45:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: T'Amber
Originally by: Kile Kitmoore
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Kile Kitmoore
What I think a lot of people don't understand is RMT is a slippery slope. Today it's the remap but what if tomorrow I can PLEX for SP or a Titan? I will personally watch this carefully and when it starts to get into that nickel & dime nonsense so many other MMO's with subs & RMT try to do I will also walk.


The secret is not to sit back and "watch carefully". The secret is to get involved, and make sure the CSM is echoing your sentiment into CCPs ears at every possible occasion: "CCP, we already have as much MT as makes sense in this game."

On the one hand we have LOTRO which significantly increased its short-term income by going F2P with all content being bought after the player starts adventuring. On the other hand we have D&D Online which fell on its face due to all content being bought after the player starts adventuring.

EVE Online already has microtransactions - you can buy anything in the game with real money. Buy PLEX, trade for ISK, use ISK to buy stuff you want.

The players need champions in the CSM to keep the "No neural remaps, no SP for ISK" opinion in CCPs faces. Players quitting the game over this issue only means that the anti-MT voice gets diluted.



The problem, these are business decisions and no matter how loud and how many voices they hear they will probably view it as "the vocal minority". Even in the face of a mass exit they would probably place the decline on something else other then their "golden goose". Reading Mynxee's report on the last meeting I think it's safe to assume CSM is already in their face over the matter, T'Amber's resignation just elevated it.

As for LOTR going F2P, it's WAY to early to start throwing a party over the numbers they just reported. This is an MMO, continuity is EVERYTHING, going to wait to call that a success story. We also have Champions moving to F2P (Cryptic style, lol) so that will also be interesting to watch over time.

If CCP wants to push out more PLEX purchases why don't they do something REALLY different. They have a store with physical goods, why not allow me to buy something in it for PLEX's? Instead of these "virtual" gimmicks allow someone to actually buy physical goods using virtual money or items such as a PLEX. Do something different and unique that sets you apart from the rest of the industry.



Do not worry, the full seated CSMs are all over this and me leaving will have no bearing in the overall strength of the anti-moremicrotransaction movement, as there is not one CSM who isn't against adding more of them to game.

-T'amber



Wonderful.Crying or Very sad

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.10.27 11:47:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: T'Amber
Do not worry, the full seated CSMs are all over this and me leaving will have no bearing in the overall strength of the anti-moremicrotransaction movement, as there is not one CSM who isn't against adding more of them to game.


To be more precise, the CSM is unanimously against micro-transactions that have real in-game benefits (like PLEX for Remaps). However, micro-transactions for vanity items, or services like character portraits, is an entirely different thing.

I think that when the October Meeting Report comes out (RSN!) this will be made entirely clear.


Bunyip
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.10.28 09:15:00 - [24]
 

I have seen CCP slipping down this slope for a long time, and I think this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Although I don't have as much leverage as you do, as a former CSM delegate, I will join you on this protest.

As of mid-November, this account will go inactive. Any possessions will remain with the characters if and when I should happen to return (ie if CCP regains some sense).

It seems like hitting CCP in their only notable metric (their income) is the best way to accomplish this task. While I may not have agreed with you on everything you have posted, I respect you for sticking to your ethics, and wish you the best.

Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2010.10.29 00:21:00 - [25]
 

You are over reacting, T.

This seems silly.

Rolling Eyes

Selene D'Celeste
Caldari
The D'Celeste Trading Company
ISK Six
Posted - 2010.10.29 02:42:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Gogela
You are over reacting, T.

This seems silly.

Rolling Eyes



It depends on how you look at it. We all play EVE or any other game because we find it fun, and when looking around EVE, you can easily find scores of different definitions of "fun". Sometimes fun leaves when friends leaves, or gameplay changes, and sometimes the fun goes away when perspective on a game shifts. This is most often seen when something happens in real life with family that is life changing (marriage, life, death, etc), but sometimes random wakeup calls happen in other ways.

Is reevaluating the time and energy put into a game due to this any different than leaving because you found a new hobby or relationship and your priorities changed?

DonHel
Gallente
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.10.30 07:33:00 - [27]
 

Not the kittens!!! Say No to micro transactions!

Heavy duty tin foil doesnt work either, to clarify

Kiko Tojima
Amarr
Posted - 2010.10.31 19:47:00 - [28]
 

TBH if I'd have voted for you I would be royally ****ed now.

Thank god I do not tend to vote for drama queens or joke candidates (/pizza Rolling Eyes).
-> my vote still counts. Razz


Geddings
Posted - 2010.11.01 17:57:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Double Dee
lol!!!

i don't think you will find that new wow expansion 'cataclysm' to be fun. maybe you can accomplish something meaningful there.

LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing


are you kidding? Cataclysm is going to be awesome. I am in the beta, yeah it will never be as......interesting as eve can be. But who doesnt like giant scarey dragons torching the world? epic.! though im surprised anyone would want to resign from CSM...the voice of the people! isn't that what we all dream for? oh well. Good luck!

Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2010.11.04 17:48:00 - [30]
 

Those nose piercings are rediculous...


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