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Schani Kratnorr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.10.25 10:48:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
...His refusing would only give more credit to your favoritism accusation the moment you get old of a Senior GM or Internal Affairs...

As Fawka wrot above, the original petition was closed (timed out) waiting to be escalated. This is not an uncommon occurrence with issues that confuse junior GMs. That is the point I am trying to make.

Originally by: Rebnok
TDLR: those meanies in PL killed my macro raven now my but hurts bad

Actually we killed what looked like a ratting bs.

I can also see a few members of the Pandemic Legion damage control team throwing a few less than useful remarks around.

zenthral staichon chooses to "lawl" at the whole thing. Wize, but not post-worthy perhaps.

Originally by: Captain Thunk
IT have discovered that sometimes the addressbook is bugged and fails to register when pilots have logged off. Welcome to 2006.
Pretty sure this revelation doesn't warrant random people being banned for it though.

Exactly why a GM should investigate and/or escalate when we ask for it. He should not ignore the petition. It is possible to work around the problem. If four or five people remove/add someone, they are very likely to get a proper result - welcome to 2003 (see how that works.)

Originally by: mazzilliu
Proof or stfu!

How eloquent dear fellow. As pointed out earlier, it might be a good idea if the some of the potentially biased representative yield the floor on this one. Since you are reluctant to do so, allow me to point out, that we agree. We do need proof. We need GMs to take petitions seriously.
Evidence can come from many sources, and when determining validity, CCP might elevate some of it to proof. Repeatedly screaming "proof" like a rabid chihuahua makes you look like a waste of votes IMO.

Back on the topic. I still think we may need a petition process overhaul. As we grew larger and a tiered sorting was implemented. I am arguing that some of the more complex issues slip through for reasons that are not valid.

Instead of placing the burden of proof on the witness/petitioner, I suggest we keep the right to deliver evidence with both the players and the GMs, but leave the "proving it" part to the investigators and their superiors.

Schani Kratnorr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.10.25 11:06:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Schani Kratnorr on 25/10/2010 11:10:54
Originally by: Venkul Mul
You always end your posts in the same way "there is a constipation, we can't do nothing, the same GM is always stonewalling our petition, I should cry on the forum instead of contacting the proper authorities". And that is exactly why people don't care for your message.

That is a bit of a generalisation. Some of the readers appear to grasp the issue. You choose not to. Try to read my post above. It may clear up some things as I have attempted to be more clear on the difference between evidence and proof and how it relates to petitions in general.

If you are commenting on the example I provided about the person we shot, then you are missing the point. For that particular issue, Fawka (not me) is handling the petition(s) and any escalations. His latest reply was that a petition timed out. As pointed out, he would need to keep refreshing it while waiting to hear from a senior GM. He did not, and that may have been a mistake. I trust a new petition has been created.

Allowing active petitions to automatically time out is problematic. Once they contain a "please escalate" from the petitioner, or a "needs investigating" from a GM, the petition system should perhaps disable the time out function entirely. Now that is a tangible suggestion.

I can see you also invoked the "..goes to cry on forums" part. That is in no way useful since you yourself choose to make the point on a forum. By assigning the modifier "cry" you reduce the signal to noise ratio of this forum and help make a case for re-introducing permanent forum bans. Kindly refrain from wasting 1s and 0s like that in the future.

Andrew Riviera
Caldari
The First Church of the Azure Carrot
Posted - 2010.10.25 21:53:00 - [33]
 

'Trust, but verify.' Sure, someone who reports someone using a local hack could be lying. However, that provides you a name. If a GM follows that name around (on the assumption that GMs can observe in secrecy, which I figure is a pretty safe one) then they'll either not see the behavior again, or they'll see the hack in action themselves. They don't need to trust the evidence submitted to them unequivocally, but rather the need to trust it just enough to get some first-hand observations to verify it one way or the other. Moving into speculative territory, it should be too terribly difficult to automate a system to periodically check up on people on The Suspect List to see if they're showing up in Local. Macro-ratters can see people in local, why can't CCP's GM toolkit? ;)

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.10.25 22:45:00 - [34]
 

There's also an easy solution to people filing frivolous claims: people found making them can be liable to various forms of GM sanction themselves.

zenthral staichon
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.10.27 15:39:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
zenthral staichon chooses to "lawl" at the whole thing. Wize, but not post-worthy perhaps.


I just found your clever wordplay amusing. If you want to call that player out, you should just do it. I'm sure he won't mind.

Rythm
Caldari
True Power Team
Posted - 2010.10.29 14:04:00 - [36]
 

In all honesty i understood one thing from that giboncrug affair - you can cheat, as long as you dont rmt.

Crucifier
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears
Posted - 2010.10.31 21:21:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
Originally by: Camios Agent

Were these lies? Was all the "the sphere" stuff invented by PL just to flame other players making them saying "HAXXXXORRZZ!" and laugh?





Yes.


No, and you are stupid if you believe otherwise.

Replicant Gamma
Posted - 2010.11.01 09:06:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: mazzilliu



lawl, im sure ccp get a lot of reports of players accusing the other side of having an unfair advantage. investigating something like that would be time consuming and there's no reason to allocate resources on the word of some players with a clear agenda and no proof.


This disqualifies you as a csm member in my opinion , ridiculing and ignoring that issue. Especially that you come from alliance whose member was COUGHT and was PROVEN to block packets that are resonsible for local chat...


ps
Dont give my The sphere crap we all know that it is/ was just a damage controll to acctually cover for the real abuse
like this one sphere damage control

Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Posted - 2010.11.01 10:40:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Replicant Gamma
Originally by: mazzilliu



lawl, im sure ccp get a lot of reports of players accusing the other side of having an unfair advantage. investigating something like that would be time consuming and there's no reason to allocate resources on the word of some players with a clear agenda and no proof.


This disqualifies you as a csm member in my opinion , ridiculing and ignoring that issue. Especially that you come from alliance whose member was COUGHT and was PROVEN to block packets that are resonsible for local chat...
[...]



I beg to differ. I don't think it disqualifies really the person in question. If you took care to look into the general stance and style of campaign pre-election, you might already have gotten an idea about what was to come. And I'm pretty positive nowhere in her campaign was it ever stated she would refrain from "ridiculing and ignoring". That leaves us back with the proverb that every people get the government (or CSM in this case) they deserve. Wink

At most I'd say it disqualifies the voters of aforementioned person. Only question remaining is what it disqualifies them from... Perhaps from seriously discussing matters CCP won't care about anyway? Cool

Brock Nelson
Posted - 2010.11.03 03:06:00 - [40]
 

The burden of proof should be on the player. Realistically, if they start tracking down on claims of exploits, then they're not gonna have time to investigate every claim. Especially bogus ones.

Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2010.11.05 11:14:00 - [41]
 

give the bug hunters the ability to teleport on TQ? If theres people floating around invisible for a while get one of them to poof over to that area and look. It would give ccp word from someone they semi trust more then random player with photoshop.

RedSplat
Posted - 2010.11.05 18:02:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: RedSplat on 05/11/2010 18:04:24
Originally by: Cyrus Doul
give the bug hunters the ability to teleport on TQ? If theres people floating around invisible for a while get one of them to poof over to that area and look. It would give ccp word from someone they semi trust more then random player with photoshop.


Well you would certainly see an explosion in apps. to be a BH Rolling Eyes

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.11.15 07:03:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Crucifier
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler
Originally by: Camios Agent

Were these lies? Was all the "the sphere" stuff invented by PL just to flame other players making them saying "HAXXXXORRZZ!" and laugh?





Yes.


No, and you are stupid if you believe otherwise.


If you think for a second that PL as an organization is smart enough to develop a method to hack Eve, but stupid enough to both publicly acknowledge and link to it on our website, you have the intelligence of a sack of hammers.

Minigin
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.11.19 12:42:00 - [44]
 

for those of you wondering, monkeysphere did figure out a way to slow packets to the server resulting in his name not appearing in local, this resulted in a rather lengthy thread somewhere on these forums which pl tried to spam out with alts and the like.

no one knows for sure if people other than monkeysphere have used this to their advantage but i suspect that a few temp bans and the like had something to do with accusations of such nature.

pl now has a bit of a troll going either to try to further aggravate people or to smokescreen this issue on their website.

the original exploit no longer works, i am not sure if people have figured a way around ccps countermeasures yet or if such a thing will be possible (as i dont know what ccp has done to fix the original issue).

none the less, this was real and if the servers are still vulnerable to such style of play, it is certainly in ccps best interests to look into this, especially so long as pl or other entities are still able to agro things inside pos shields with ecm bursts.

ps, someone ask grath if hes upgraded from t1 sentrys yet. =P

Dlardrageth
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Posted - 2010.11.24 16:18:00 - [45]
 

Edited by: Dlardrageth on 24/11/2010 16:18:16
Originally by: Minigin
[...]
no one knows for sure if people other than monkeysphere have used this to their advantage but i suspect that a few temp bans and the like had something to do with accusations of such nature.


plus

Quote:
[...]
it is certainly in ccps best interests to look into this, especially so long as pl or other entities are still able to agro things inside pos shields with ecm bursts.


... pretty much answers the question. If it were indeed in "CCP's best interest" to seriously look into this, it won't have resulted in just some lol-temp-bans but permabans rather. Didn't happen. Which makes the conclusion rather obvious that it's yet another time CCP paying merely some sort of lip service (no, I didn't write giving head to PL Razz), but not really bothering to get seriously involved. So basically some token action to quell possible customer unrest but in the end the well-known "We don't care!" attitude. Go figure...Rolling Eyes


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