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Elric Hexx
Minmatar
Black Hole INC
Posted - 2010.10.25 22:38:00 - [571]
 

Edited by: Elric Hexx on 25/10/2010 22:51:38
Originally by: Pai Suree
Actually Elric, a certain amount of ambiguity in the rules helps to improve the competition not handicap it.

The rules themselves are just fine. I understood them, and consciously decided to push their limits since I was having fun and probably would have keeled over dead in surprise had I even made the finalist round anyway. Other people understood them and also made decisions on just how far to push the limits of "should". In fact, the only question I had was did putting my name on it constitute an artist's signature, and not putting it on, just in case, was easy enough.

And the only truly ambiguous point in the entire thing is whether the comments box for the submission counted as part of the submission or not. I think it should have personally. I had fun writing a nice, dorky story to go with my ship and none of the judges probably ever read it.

The real problem has been that d'Art, when questioned about why some were rejected, used the "should" rules in their example.

This means:
a.) They were treating "should" as "must" and in the end failed to do so consistently, or
b.) The answer was purely contrived as a brush off, or
c.) They really are idiots.

By and large, I am inclined toward option B. The response, of course, is that this blew up in their face because it was clear that the example they provided was for somethings being rejected for rules that were not uniformly enforced. Eve, being quite full of rule geeks picked up on that one immediately and most of the demands for strictly following the rules were jabs at the falsehood of their claim, not at really wanting that (since it would pretty much exclude almost all the good ones who knew what "should" means and were each gambling on where the should-line is really drawn).

Though as time progresses and I think more about it, I am also inclined to agree more and more with the theory that this wasn't a "best of" selection, but a well distributed sampling of the pretty good. Which is to say, they added an unwritten rule of picking a broad selection to acknowledge a variety of styles and talent levels out there.

Fine and dandy when the competition winners are going to hang in a special local art section in a nearby art gallery (correction, the winning works, not the winners ... unless you are near a very interesting art gallery), not so fine when the outcome is an actual (well, virtual) product that many observers have a strong investment in.

Thus it went boom.

But here is the thing to remember ... so far as I can tell, CCP has not yet officially acknowledged the close of the contest or the declaration of the semi-finalists. Until they either specifically do that or go a step beyond and declare the final three winners, the contest can be considered to be undecided as to an outcome.



I will sit quietly and support you in this from here. I like you assessment, thank you for the courtesy of taking the time to write that, its a point of view I hadn't considered really or seen with so much else going on.

o7

and for the record only as a response "It's verbiage utilized to support any position that they can convincingly assign it to, as they need too. If you caught the right judge in a small claims case..it could be taken either way and that ambiguity, the question. In a risk assessment its 75% to 25% their favor.

Its easy, "should" implies a duty to perform but not the requirement. One could reasonably argue in a court of law that those who adhered to the performance of that duty should take precedence in judging over those who did not, Like I said, right judge on the right day and you could win."

I can't put my whole life on hold for 25%, so I surrender.

Fleximus Arctodus
Posted - 2010.10.25 23:02:00 - [572]
 

Edited by: Fleximus Arctodus on 25/10/2010 23:12:22
The Minnie Tornado is about the only good one on the list.

The naru-thingy is half decent too I guess......


EDIT: also, what was wrong with the LA starship one? Genuine question, I can't see it, it won't show up. How bad was it?

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2010.10.25 23:15:00 - [573]
 

Originally by: Fleximus Arctodus
Edited by: Fleximus Arctodus on 25/10/2010 23:12:22
The Minnie Tornado is about the only good one on the list.

The naru-thingy is half decent too I guess......


EDIT: also, what was wrong with the LA starship one? Genuine question, I can't see it, it won't show up. How bad was it?


It looked a whole lot like this. I dare say, I may have improved the design.

Fleximus Arctodus
Posted - 2010.10.25 23:21:00 - [574]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Fleximus Arctodus
Edited by: Fleximus Arctodus on 25/10/2010 23:12:22
The Minnie Tornado is about the only good one on the list.

The naru-thingy is half decent too I guess......


EDIT: also, what was wrong with the LA starship one? Genuine question, I can't see it, it won't show up. How bad was it?


It looked a whole lot like this. I dare say, I may have improved the design.


Lmao, looking good! Though i'd have pegged it as more of a HAC than a BC.....Shocked

Burhtun
Posted - 2010.10.25 23:59:00 - [575]
 

Yeah the Tornado is the only one I'd want to fly. The Tsunami is well done, it looks like a professional piece of concept art, but it just isn't very sexy. Don't like its shapes. I don't get the popularity of the Cyruk Velam or the Naru-Kami. Both are uninteresting and look like they should be in an anime rather than Eve. The Nergal could be cool looking I think. Just put the thrusters on the small end and make the big intimidating end its front.

LA Battlecruiser is cached here:
http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2010/284/3/2/eve_starship_la_battlecruiser_by_ironsideindustrial-d30j0b3.jpg

Elric Hexx
Minmatar
Black Hole INC
Posted - 2010.10.26 00:02:00 - [576]
 

Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Fleximus Arctodus
Edited by: Fleximus Arctodus on 25/10/2010 23:12:22
The Minnie Tornado is about the only good one on the list.

The naru-thingy is half decent too I guess......


EDIT: also, what was wrong with the LA starship one? Genuine question, I can't see it, it won't show up. How bad was it?


It looked a whole lot like this. I dare say, I may have improved the design.


Actually one of the artist rendered it ...

you be the judge :

http://astepintooblivion.deviantart.com/#/d31dftt

Fleximus Arctodus
Posted - 2010.10.26 00:57:00 - [577]
 

Originally by: Elric Hexx
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Fleximus Arctodus
Edited by: Fleximus Arctodus on 25/10/2010 23:12:22
The Minnie Tornado is about the only good one on the list.

The naru-thingy is half decent too I guess......


EDIT: also, what was wrong with the LA starship one? Genuine question, I can't see it, it won't show up. How bad was it?


It looked a whole lot like this. I dare say, I may have improved the design.


Actually one of the artist rendered it ...

you be the judge :

http://astepintooblivion.deviantart.com/#/d31dftt


Thats actually half decent. Ok, it looks like a giant, angular catalyst, but not too bad. Still wouldn't stick it in the top 15 though.

Amda Tori
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.26 01:08:00 - [578]
 

Originally by: Elric Hexx


It looked a whole lot like this. I dare say, I may have improved the design.


Actually one of the artist rendered it ...

you be the judge :

http://astepintooblivion.deviantart.com/#/d31dftt



Still looks like crap. :)

Ben Mahocken
Posted - 2010.10.26 01:10:00 - [579]
 

Originally by: Fleximus Arctodus
Originally by: Elric Hexx
Originally by: Sader Rykane
Originally by: Fleximus Arctodus
Edited by: Fleximus Arctodus on 25/10/2010 23:12:22
The Minnie Tornado is about the only good one on the list.

The naru-thingy is half decent too I guess......


EDIT: also, what was wrong with the LA starship one? Genuine question, I can't see it, it won't show up. How bad was it?


It looked a whole lot like this. I dare say, I may have improved the design.


Actually one of the artist rendered it ...

you be the judge :

http://astepintooblivion.deviantart.com/#/d31dftt


Thats actually half decent. Ok, it looks like a giant, angular catalyst, but not too bad. Still wouldn't stick it in the top 15 though.


It looks alot better and is easier to understand now. Should blow away most of the lolwut box ragers, but still, it is a catalyst with edges. I was the first one to comment on the LA battlecruiser's page and i wrote grats for the semi spot, but it looks like a ship that actualy exists in the eve univers already the Catalyst galente destroyer (inserted wiki link here). It dosnt have the roundness and fractions of the catalyst tho.

Thats pretty close to what i wrote, still it only proves that the judges didnt do their job and didnt think of the design of eve. I feel sorry for this guy, i really do, but it still dosnt have a spot among the 15 semi's.

Elric Hexx
Minmatar
Black Hole INC
Posted - 2010.10.26 05:03:00 - [580]
 

and as promised.. heres the link to my drawings.. they are not fabulous drawings, and they did not adhere to the rules of the contest.

http://sites.google.com/site/evetrainclass/home/images

Not terrible, just not enough to get close to winning, not with a nuclear horse-shoe grenade, but for learning Blender in 3 weeks I did ok, long ways to go.

Hate em, like em, love em.. there yours to rant on from here..please even hate them because they're mine

I pulled them all down the day the judging was in.. THE scary thing for me was everyone was saying put up the Tornado, No sh!t, uh what.. so I yanked them ALL, I knew it was against the rules to use renders, and then after they changed LABC for the epic and wonderful TORNADO thats loved.. I breathed a sigh of relief, and started ranting about the rules da and CCP and levels of color blindness, negligence and lawsuits.

My drawing of a per se titled "Tornado" was the first "Tornado" up there, and I never saw the other one until judgement day. Go Matar!!! YAY

Since this is over for me.. blast away.. but I did promise to put myself out there for your Evil or Very MadeviscerationTwisted Evil


Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2010.10.26 05:06:00 - [581]
 

Originally by: Elric Hexx
and as promised.. heres the link to my drawings.. they are not fabulous drawings, and they did not adhere to the rules of the contest.

http://sites.google.com/site/evetrainclass/home/images

Not terrible, just not enough to get close to winning, not with a nuclear horse-shoe grenade, but for learning Blender in 3 weeks I did ok, long ways to go.

Hate em, like em, love em.. there yours to rant on from here..please even hate them because they're mine

I pulled them all down the day the judging was in.. THE scary thing for me was everyone was saying put up the Tornado, No sh!t, uh what.. so I yanked them ALL, I knew it was against the rules to use renders, and then after they changed LABC for the epic and wonderful TORNADO thats loved.. I breathed a sigh of relief, and started ranting about the rules da and CCP and levels of color blindness, negligence and lawsuits.

My drawing of a per se titled "Tornado" was the first "Tornado" up there, and I never saw the other one until judgement day. Go Matar!!! YAY

Since this is over for me.. blast away.. but I did promise to put myself out there for your Evil or Very MadeviscerationTwisted Evil




Based on the terrible nature of the judges, I'm surprised you didn't reach top 3 with those.

Lofe sXe
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.10.26 11:40:00 - [582]
 

Edited by: Lofe sXe on 26/10/2010 11:42:28
Originally by: Elric Hexx

http://sites.google.com/site/evetrainclass/home/images



they are just terrible ... now, stop being mad about this contest

fairimear
Gallente
The Sp00Ks
Posted - 2010.10.26 12:18:00 - [583]
 

CCP need to come in on this one and sort this out. As a student in 3D modeling i can say right now that the fact some of the line arts had shading is the most BS reason to exclude better designs i have ever ever heard and am ever likely to.
the 6 views are all a compitent modeler will need and franly they could be colored in like a f***in rainbow.
The 7th conept peice can only help.

Any way. if i was going to pick 1 ship for each race on merit of EVE conformity (does it fit eve) and what i would enjoy to model. they would be

AMARR: Precursor

Caldari: Linkage

Gallente: Aquilon

Minmatar: Tornado

1 ship for each race. All should be made into A BATTLECRUISER. and given a little bit of race flaivour or fill a hole in the races current line up.
Amarr: maybe a fast energy neuting drone bc.
caldari: maybe a ecm drone bc.
Gallente: fast long range rail boat
minmatar: extream range webber boat with missiles (very long range low power web) im thinking maybe 1 webber at 80km with -10% speed.

Note all above ideas are off top of my head and not considered balance. Ships are clear winners for their race in this contest though. CCP need to either be like "Yea this is going to be a event ship for the next alliance tourn" or pick 1 for each race if every 1 is going to be able to have one.


Jennifer Starling
Amarr
Posted - 2010.10.26 12:19:00 - [584]
 

I want the Templar battlecruiser! Embarassed
Why isn't it in?


Stupid McStupidson
Gallente
Hoek Lyne and Sinker
Posted - 2010.10.26 14:45:00 - [585]
 

Originally by: Jennifer Starling
I want the Templar battlecruiser! Embarassed
Why isn't it in?



Because it's an Amarr fighter used by carriers.

SFM Hobb3s
Vanguard Frontiers
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.10.26 18:54:00 - [586]
 

Great work on keeping this thread organized Nova Fox. Much appreciated.

Like many of you I am still hoping CCP will put their collective foot down and tell DA they didn't get what they asked for. I would have a good laugh if CCP explained the 'rules' to DA in much they same way DA slagged off most of the Eve community.


Hobb3s Caldari Battlecruiser

Makoto Shinobi
Posted - 2010.10.26 20:10:00 - [587]
 

Would love to have an update on the negotiations however small or vague it may be. Just something from either side to let us know that negotiations are in fact in progress. CCP, anything?

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.10.27 07:03:00 - [588]
 

Originally by: Makoto Shinobi
Would love to have an update on the negotiations however small or vague it may be. Just something from either side to let us know that negotiations are in fact in progress. CCP, anything?

This.

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2010.10.27 08:36:00 - [589]
 

Edited by: Nova Fox on 27/10/2010 08:38:05
Moonbeam has confirmed they just received 2500 new codes to pass out for consolation prizes this will quell some of the non eve users who where going where's my free trail at.

As for updates on the judging CCP nor DA has said anything yet. Another DA admin is getting thier teeth kicked in trying to mingle outside of his/her expertice.

Sakura Imoru
Posted - 2010.10.27 08:42:00 - [590]
 

Originally by: Nova Fox
Edited by: Nova Fox on 27/10/2010 08:38:05
Moonbeam has confirmed they just received 2500 new codes to pass out for consolation prizes this will quell some of the non eve users who where going where's my free trail at.

As for updates on the judging CCP nor DA has said anything yet. Another DA admin is getting thier teeth kicked in trying to mingle outside of his/her expertice.


Who? Link?

Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2010.10.27 09:24:00 - [591]
 

well i got my code so at least i know i wasn't disqualified..not that i have any use for the code Rolling Eyes

Deliram
Posted - 2010.10.27 09:33:00 - [592]
 

Edited by: Deliram on 27/10/2010 09:35:41
I confirm, i got kg cd key. Now i can play eve!! Wait.. I think i already play it -.-
I just hope now that they will reconsider the final pick up. Btw the more i see the tornado the less i like it. It has no originality in the details and the general hull is too similar to a reversed myrmidon. Like more naru-kami and gate keeper. Still i like more other entrys that Are not bere. Hope i wrote right stuff CUZ iPhone continue to change what i write lol have to disable it

N Ano
Caldari
Templars of Space
Posted - 2010.10.27 09:50:00 - [593]
 

Edited by: N Ano on 27/10/2010 09:52:29
Originally by: fairimear
CCP need to come in on this one and sort this out. As a student in 3D modeling i can say right now that the fact some of the line arts had shading is the most BS reason to exclude better designs i have ever ever heard and am ever likely to.
the 6 views are all a compitent modeler will need and franly they could be colored in like a f***in rainbow.
The 7th conept peice can only help.

Any way. if i was going to pick 1 ship for each race on merit of EVE conformity (does it fit eve) and what i would enjoy to model. they would be

AMARR: Precursor

Caldari: Linkage

Gallente: Aquilon

Minmatar: Tornado

1 ship for each race. All should be made into A BATTLECRUISER. and given a little bit of race flaivour or fill a hole in the races current line up.
Amarr: maybe a fast energy neuting drone bc.
caldari: maybe a ecm drone bc.
Gallente: fast long range rail boat
minmatar: extream range webber boat with missiles (very long range low power web) im thinking maybe 1 webber at 80km with -10% speed.

Note all above ideas are off top of my head and not considered balance. Ships are clear winners for their race in this contest though. CCP need to either be like "Yea this is going to be a event ship for the next alliance tourn" or pick 1 for each race if every 1 is going to be able to have one.




Please dont ruin these ships with E-war, we already have recons, black ops, EAF, some cruisers, scorpion, logistics, blood raider ships. Maybe some others.
No thanks.

Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.10.27 12:51:00 - [594]
 

why is this ship not in the finals!?

Deliram
Posted - 2010.10.27 14:43:00 - [595]
 

Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
why is this ship not in the finals!?

Because, sadly, it does not fit to the rules:
Discolored line drawing, and also it has the sponsor mark(the EVE mark) so it was discarded...
This is a major fault of the rules itself because where not really clear in the way they wrote them up, and they where changed while the contest was on.

Lofe sXe
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.10.27 14:56:00 - [596]
 

Edited by: Lofe sXe on 27/10/2010 15:00:38
Edited by: Lofe sXe on 27/10/2010 14:59:44
Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
why is this ship not in the finals!?


because this one: LA BATTLECRUISER (too bad they disqualified for an absurd rule violation ... they disqualified because it was going to be 1st prize and own every one else)

was absolutely bettere than it [ Linkage ] below every point of view, originality, artistic skills, good presentation, fitting in the EvE universe etc. etc.
Also, every finalist is better than that one ... let's just point this one: Linkage or Linkage .... every one

DA judges are so good we, poor human beings, cannot even understand their awsomeness.

Jenny Hawk
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.10.27 15:01:00 - [597]
 

Originally by: Lofe sXe
because this one: LA BATTLECRUISER

I have the feeling this one's going to WIN!! Very Happy

Elric Hexx
Minmatar
Black Hole INC
Posted - 2010.10.27 20:00:00 - [598]
 

Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
why is this ship not in the finals!?


A: The utter negligence or nerfdom of the judging by Deviant Art panel
B: The DA judge who reviewed this entry does not see line drawings but renders, depending on who you ask it is or isn't against the rules.
C: The ability of some people to not raise A or B fanatically enough to be heard for fear of being embarrassed
D: Its not nice to complain
E: Don't expect a contest to be a race with a winner, we're all winners on Deviant Art
F: All the the above

joomla alacard
Indifferent Bastards
Posted - 2010.10.27 20:56:00 - [599]
 

I'd like a Plex instead of this 30-day CD key.

Ole F
Posted - 2010.10.27 23:28:00 - [600]
 

i sincerely hope the "special gift" that was talked about in the contest article is more than these 30-day keys they've been handing out.

It seems kinda pointless that it would be something that is useless to entrants that are already EVE subscribers (and i would assume a sizable amount of them are)


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