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blankseplocked Eve Losing its "Base"
 
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Alara IonStorm
Caldari
Posted - 2010.10.03 22:51:00 - [91]
 

All your Base is Sniped by me!

Thats right same joke twice!

Michael Scar
Caldari
Dunder Mifflin Paper Co.
Posted - 2010.10.03 23:15:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Michael Scar on 03/10/2010 23:20:51
Lol some tiny alliance that held a few systems for half a year isnt eve's base.

When Jita is a ghost town then you know eve has lost it's BASE.

Aphser
Amarr
Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2010.10.03 23:42:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Michael Scar
Edited by: Michael Scar on 03/10/2010 23:20:51
Lol some tiny alliance that held a few systems for half a year isnt eve's base.

When Jita is a ghost town then you know eve has lost it's BASE.


Lol some tiny alliance that carebears in high-sec for a year isnt eve's base either.

Jita != EVE, JFYI... Rolling Eyes

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2010.10.04 06:14:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Venkul Mul
What you guys are asking is that you should be made uber so that you can kill hundreds of adversaries but that in some "mysterious" way you should be made immune from being defeated.


There should be more opportunities for smaller groups of people to make a difference in controlling smaller areas of space, where the terrain and local conditions make it impossible (or very hard) to defeat anyone by weight of numbers alone.

It might be interesting to have some sort of hybrid of WH space and nullsec, with sovereignty allowed but still difficult to reach. Maybe the odd constellation or two of standard-ish nullsec, cut off from the rest of EVE by a tract of WH space?


W-space provides a golden opportunity here for making more space on the other side of it with different conditions. Imagine an area of space, say a couple of Stain-sized regions with a couple of dozen abandoned stations, and the systems are linked by obsolete gates in hidden plexes... and these gates are only powerful enough to move battlecruiser or smaller ship types, plus they take a while to replace the power used to gate a ship based on mass - move too many ships through too fast and they stop working for a few minutes. Oh and Cynos dont work, so you can build cap ships but you can't move them. Right there you have your small gang small ship paradise. You could even meddle with the local effects of MWDs and so forth, partially restoring the nano age.

It would be relatively easy to create 2-3 areas of new space with variable conditions like this, offering something for everyone. W-space provides an excellent filter, allowing individual pilots and small groups through relatively easily, but filtering out the ultra-large groups.



Hey, those are some pretty good ideas!


Imagine "outlands" - instead of worm hole systems, entire regions that have gates but are only reachable by worm holes! Once you get into the region, at any point, there are usable gates but only within that region


And please no statics in known systems that get you there or these will be "The Jitas of Blob" systems.

Malcanis you should take this to the F&I forums.

Wormhole space provided a lot of opportunity for numerous kinds of players, but entire regions or constellations having gates within (and perhaps abandoned NPC stations too? Nice) reachable only by worm hole with mass limitations will open up a lot more opportunity. As an exploration type the concept makes me drool - especially if these regions have completely new NPCs or drones, lore, etc - but even just sleepers would work too (would also boost T3 production).


Kruntologist
The Krovicants
Posted - 2010.10.04 06:44:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Black Necris


Another issue that its pushing me away from the game is how horrid the player base has become, when i joined this game most people was mature and had a sense of honor and decency, (except for goons of course) but right now it seems like everyone and their mothers are trolls and backstabbing bastards. I remember the days where you would get caught with your pants down, and your precious ship blown to pieces, and local would be GF, now its you get blobed and local its "lulz ***" or that kind of stupid crap.

Don't get me wrong, i appreciate a good troll just as the guy next door from time to time, but when the sole thing you see and read are non stop trolling and bashing, fark it gets old. I guess eve just have evolved to be a ****ty community just as the rest of the MMO communities.



This, tbh. The community has REALLY declined in the past few years in particular.

The other thing that is depressing me about playing anymore is the whole "Supercaps Online" thing. Reading evenews24 and reading 2 recent stories is the perfect example:

Quote:
No fight happened during the 1 hour wait period, NC fielded impressive capital fleet consisting of 16 titans, 30 supercarriers and 100 dreads+carriers and, killed the CSAA tower.


Quote:
NC fleet consisted of 22 supercarriers and many more capitals. Morsus Mihi fielded 51 pilots, RAZOR 57, Goonswarm 76, R.A.G.E 34, Wildly Inappropriate.24, Test Alliance Please Ignore 16, Tactical Narcotics Team 12 were biggest contributors in term of numbers.
(Test actually had 60 pilots there)

I bolded the really depressing parts. Gee, no fights were to be had--imagine.

Caliwyrm O'Libr
Token Ring Assembly
Posted - 2010.10.04 06:50:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Lafayet
All statistics seem to suggest that the game is replacing more people than are leaving and the subscriber base is growing (slowly but growing nonetheless.)

Replacing long time players with new blood has as many benefits as it does negatives, particularly in games with as long a lifespan as this one.



Is that truly the case or is it just masked by the different "Power of Two" promotions? Never in all of my 9+ years playing MMOs have I ever encountered a fanbase with as many accounts as in EVE. Your average player in DAoC had 1 or 2 accounts. In EVE I regularly run into people with 4-6 accounts..

Orange Lagomorph
Posted - 2010.10.04 06:56:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr
Is that truly the case or is it just masked by the different "Power of Two" promotions?


I tend to believe that a fair proportion (not sure exactly how much) of EVE's "growth" is, in fact, due to the wealthier half of the game acquiring more characters and fielding more active accounts to keep them trained (or multibox them).

Inflation and earning potential increase significantly each year on the high end, while GTCs are worth about the same as they were three years ago, if I'm remembering correctly (PLEX is similar in cost).

dayita
Posted - 2010.10.04 08:16:00 - [98]
 

Edited by: dayita on 04/10/2010 08:23:52
So I know this is probably the wrong forum, but reading the thread has stirred echoes of what I currently find difficult in EVE, along with why I think low-sec is a real problem. Thinking about it, I may have cooked up an idea which has a lot of potential.

In short, bring back deep safes, but limit them so that you can't light a cyno (we can pretend it needs proximity to the solar gravitational well) outside a certain distance.

What I really want is to be able to cross from one solar system to another just in warp. I did a bit of data analysis on the map, and this turns out to be feasible but difficult. The average distance between stars on the map is 56,000 AU. In an Interceptor (warp speed 12 AU/s) that's 1 hour 18 minutes (4666 seconds) of travel time; in a capital (warp speed 1.5 AU/s) that's 10 hours 24 minutes.

Obviously there's a *lot* of side-effects on the game with this change - the most obvious being the reduced effectiveness of gate camps. Note that they're really not eliminated - how many players do you know who want to spend 5 hours (at the average hauling speed) just to get around *one* gate camp? And the cyno limitation I proposed will keep attacking fleets within existing boundaries, unless it is willing to spend a *lot* of time scouting and coordinating an no-jump invasion.

However a no-jump invasion *is* a real possibility now, so you would need to be able to mount effective sentries - but it turns out that we already have the tools for that in the hands of probers. Deep Space Scanner Probes become useful again as a 64AU radius is not only bigger than your average solar system, but a cubic deployment from one scan ship will actually provide coverage out to the nearer deep space regions between stars. More sophisticated sentry techniques could be used along likely invasion routes, making the whole scanning/probing profession actually have strategic importance in PvP.

In fact the whole scanning/probing thing becomes crucial to making deep space work since there aren't any ships with enough cap to warp across 56K AU without stopping. Additionally bookmarks aren't easily visible outside the system where they are defined. A nice solution to this issue, which also puts another block in the way of no-jump invasion would be to limit a bookmark's "warp-to" radius to something like 10000 AU (1 ly == 63K AU). Tweaking the bookmark's warp-to footprint also becomes a very easy way to regulate no-jump travel, as it determines how much clicky clicky is required to make a trip happen.

There is also has a lot of goodness for solo players in this proposal since deep space is *BIG*. If POS's were allowed anchoring in deep space, micro-corps (like mine :) could actually establish working bases in space even without holding sovereignty. It creates an interesting cat and mouse game in resource piracy where finding bases again becomes a matter of strategic importance. Other extensions from the deep-space mini-sovereignty idea include attracting NPC rats and minor (low-yield is important to maintaining balance) belts/plexes.

And as far as dealing with CONCORD - well i'd assume that they don;t operate outside of the cyno limit, so hi-sec deep space becomes effectively low-sec. And if we're going to live with that shange to hi-sec, then why not promote low-sec deep-space to be effectively null-sec, and not have any security hit for PvP aggro/kills?

So in summary: Bring back Deep Space! But make it more meaningful, so it can be a home to smaller sovereign entities. It will create a richer strategic environment for all of New Eden.

- dayita

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.10.04 09:14:00 - [99]
 

Small gang warfare is more enjoyable for many players because it's more intimate and conducive to team play and easier esprit d'corp.

I think it's broadly comparable to a night down the boozer with a small gang of friends - plenty of banter and back and forth chat.

The trouble is CCP were told explicitly that null sec PVP needed small gang objectives and chose to ignore that advice when they re designed sov warfare.

This critical failure to appreciate why small gang warfare is popular and CCPs adherence to 'oooh big fleets' will ultimately lead to EVE stagnating.

C.


Ned Black
Posted - 2010.10.04 10:20:00 - [100]
 

The problems I see with the current game is this:

Specialization. It seems as if every ship need to streamlined and "specialized". We have seen plenty of changes where ships depending on fitting would be good for diffrent roles into a more "specialized" category where the ship basicly function with a "cookie cutter fitting" and not very much more.

Replacement of POS warfare whith the current SOV warfare which is essentially the same piece of poop only SOV warfare is about 10x as boring as POS warefare ever was.

Transformation from EvE online into Super/Cap-Blob online. Lets face it. Blob warfare is about as boring as it gets. No finesse, no randomness. Target primary -> shoot -> Target Secondary -> shoot... biggest blob wins.

What would be needed is LOS in combat. If you shoot and your friend sits right in front of your guns he gets hurt. If someone on the other fleet sits in front of your fire that poor sob gets hit instead of the intended target. Unfortunatly this would not be possible due to heavy calculations... but it would be very nice indeed if it were possible.

I still enjoy the game since I have moved into WH space, if 0.0 was the only option however I have a feeling that I would have quit already since that kind of warfare bores the hell out of me.

tla s'hpyt
Posted - 2010.10.04 10:27:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: tla s''hpyt on 04/10/2010 10:42:23
Originally by: OP
I want to know what your Top 3 Changes to keep you in Eve would be.


DISCLAIMER: I don't actually see any of these things happening, at least not in eve.

1. Encouraging variance in setups and which mods you fit etc. I have a strong dislike for 'best' items and linear progression yet that's what we see a lot of. While eve is nowhere near 100% linear progression you still see it far too often such as in meta lvl's of items. Also the way entire fleets are composed of a standard setup give or take a module, thinking up your own setup is often discouraged for the minions, just use alliance/coalition standard.

For example make more damage types. Star trek has milked countless episodes out of "change the phase variance" and "modulate the phasers" yet in eve we're stuck with 4 damage types? add in the ability to omni tank and it's not often you'll see targeting or setups based around trying to work with these damage types. It doesn't just have to be more damage types it could be an entirely new system that works with it, for example a system that works well against fast moving projectiles (good vs rails, ok vs AC's arties) but slower projectiles (missiles) or energy weapons can get past easier.


2. Change the way npc's are used in eve. Right now npc's act as a background for the game and are mostly for a single player experience. You'll see some multiplayer pve but what I wanna see is npc's be used as tools for players to interact. The closest you get to this is FW, but even in FW the npc's are pretty static and unthinking. NPC's in eve cheat, they spawn infinitely come from nowhere and have no real goals or motivation. The system for NPC's creation and actions is unbelievably basic for a game as complex as eve. What I'd like to see is NPC's being used to interact not as a substitute for player interaction (NPC's should never try and be players).

For example a 0.0 alliance can take on NPC navies where you can sanction them to setup operations to fuel build and ressuply. Then you give them orders on what sort of setups you want them to fly where you want them to patrol etc. You may be thinking "run anomalies in enemy space" to stop these but that's not the sorta system I would want it would be closer to (God I hate to say this) the old pos warfare. The old pos warfare was boring as hell and involved shooting uniteresting and predictable crap over and over and over again. This isn't what I want, but the idea of seting up npc's having the enemy attack while you and your npc's defend together is what I want.

Rather than try and fix pos warfare or try to make it interesting and encourage ppl to spread out CCP opted to just dump it and have 1 point with 1 shootable object and let it all resolve entirely around players. For many players this was a good decision they only want pvp and my talk of npc's worked in amongst the players would be a nightmare to them. As for me, if pvp was chocolate cake and pve was vanilla I want marble cake. There may not be many who want a system like this but you asked.

EDIT: If you happen to have played dota think along the same lines as the creeps in that game.


3. Now for one that might at least happen, remove the exponential clone cost (at least the exponential part of it). Nearly at the 30 mil clone cost for my main, that screws up the cheap ship option unless I stick to low sec.

HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2010.10.04 11:34:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Kail Storm

It seems like I send 5 hours prepping and can pop from 100 Newbs on the other side and have to start all over refitting etc.

Im not saying at all im a pro but have been playing 4-5 Years and am very competent in PVP and the fact that nowdays we line up like old school Musket day Armys and pop away makes skill not relevant.

Eve has gone from small-ish groups of "Green Berets" "GSG9" "SAS" what evr you like best, to lines of untrained CHildren soilders with AK`s who can kill those others who are trained because I guy says "Fire"



Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!


basebasebasebasebasebasebasebasebase you have no chance to survive make your time

Muul Udonii
Minmatar
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.10.04 17:01:00 - [103]
 

Firstly, I don't think the state of the game has all that much to do with 'old' players leaving. Eve takes up quite a lot of my time and I don't even play that intensively at the moment, so I can well imagine that people will decide they should devote their life to wives and girlfriends, work or maybe even outdoor hobbies; and that playing a computer game just isn't what interests them any more.

However, I do think the OP and those thinking along those lines do have some fair points.

When the game started gang warfare was the norm; with much much smaller fleets than we have nowadays.

That's partially because of the nature of the game, partially because there were fewer active accounts, and partially because less people had the skills to boost a full fleet.

There is however a big difference between skill at small engagements, where every ship counts, and skill at large engagements where 99% of the fleet is effectively expendable.

I think the OP's issues really come down to one simple point: With the gameplay the way it is, it is impossible in most cases to use your skill to increase your chances for survival if you get called as a primary. You hve to rely on the skills of those around you, and for a player who likes to be good as a solo pilot, that's going to be disconcerting.

I'm not sure anything should change; and I'm certainly sure nothing will change, but it would be nice to have more smaller fleets, or at least utilise squads, wings and fleets as they ought to be utilised. More often than not the entire fleet is on oine teamspeak channel, and nobody recieves orders from their squad or wing commanders; they just recieve them from the FC. Nothing wrong with that, because it works; but it is a bit boring, limits people's exposure to leadership positions, and doesn't really fulfil what CCP intended fleet battles to be like.

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2010.10.04 18:52:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Ashina Sito
Piffle.

Short response here because I have to go to work.

Want to stop being board, stop being the blob. I always looked at CH as a blob. Sorry, best skill that group had was in getting "friends" to take a dive and lose ships to save CH assets.

Sov = Blob, your stuck with that. Bring the friends, I saw CH do that often, and as mentioned above those friends were the meat shield.

Everything else I saw from CH (with 2 years watching them in Syndicate) is that they spent their time hugging high sec in PF-346 killing small groups and lone pilots, then running from any fights. Blue any threat and flee from anyone they couldn't.

Fights are a plenty, but CH and outfits like it ran from fights. They want ganks. KB efficiency is all that matters. Rather then getting in brawls and having fun it is. "Run we might lose a ship!!!!"

I flew with some CH pilots a while back who were board because they did not get action flying with CH. When they flew with use they had fights. Those fights happen because the pilots I fly with look for action, not KB efficiency. You can lose your entire gang yet still have an awesome fight. Even more important the gang reships and heads out, you don't lose pilots because of ship loss fear.

Bah, getting to long. Only time I ever saw CH do anything that was outside of the "camp and gank" box was a 20 man all Thorax with ECM drone gang that chased a noob training fleet of mine 7 jumps from PF. That was actually kinda impressive. The normal experience with CH was...

Scout: CH Phobos landing on gate.(3 jumps from PF-346)
FC: Align, when it jumps though everyone shoot it. Incoming Titan bridge, get off the gate.
Fleet : aligned
Phobos jumps in.
Fleet shoots Phobos
Phobos drops Cyno
30 RR BS jump in.
Fleet warps off. Everyone laughs.
CH pilots sit for 10 minutes waiting for Cyno to drop so the can go back and cuddle with the Titan.

If your board, stop playing Eve in a boring way. It is that simple.


Well, Im so glad it was a short post. Rolling Eyes



Gogela
Freeport Exploration
Posted - 2010.10.04 19:19:00 - [105]
 

Yes EvE is definately coming to an end... *snicker*

Can I have your stuff?

Laughing

Shawshanke
Posted - 2010.10.04 19:29:00 - [106]
 

"Eve Losing its Base"

Thank God, was wondering when those old creeptards would finally leave.

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
Posted - 2010.10.04 19:45:00 - [107]
 

Originally by: ShadoJak
It means you got it NOW, not "When It's Ready".
No, it means you get it "Soon™", not "When it's Ready" Wink

Straight Chillen
Gallente
Solar Wind
Posted - 2010.10.04 20:12:00 - [108]
 

While I don't agree with the OP on all points, I have seen more long term players leave in the last 6 months then I have ever before.

And I'm sure CCP has noticed as well, as most long term players have multiple accounts, so for every player they are losing (in 4 years I've met 7 people who only play on 1 acct, they are losing 3+ subscriptions.

For what? To bring in some new scrubs that are going to play for a few months, ***** and complain about everything and leave.

Remember what happened to SWG when they alienated their core player base?


Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.10.04 20:42:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Vaal Erit on 04/10/2010 20:43:13
Originally by: Straight Chillen
While I don't agree with the OP on all points, I have seen more long term players leave in the last 6 months then I have ever before.


Oh hey some random noob made up a rumor that long term players are leaving in droves, it must be true I guess.

Maybe you see a lot of long term players leaving because you are in AAA Citizens and AAA is being invaded atm and losing terribly so the people you know are cry-quitting (just invented that term) instead of playing and having fun and fighting.

Old players constantly leave because eventually you get bored of the game. Not sure why that is so difficult to understand. Invoking SWG or other disasters have nothing to do with EVE. Get a grip, EVE is doing fine, if your friends in EVE are leaving then get new friends.

Irae Ragwan
Posted - 2010.10.04 20:48:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: Irae Ragwan on 04/10/2010 20:49:46
Originally by: Straight Chillen
For what? To bring in some new scrubs that are going to play for a few months, ***** and complain about everything and leave.


More than likely they are realizing that keeping a player-base that plays the game to death on a dozen accounts is not feasible. If you look at the way the money flows in EVE, it's still very much a vet's paradise, probably more so than it's ever been. I'm able to make enough isk with minimal effort to PLEX three accounts, keep a POS opperational, and occasionally get around in my carrier alt, all the while hunting on a daily basis with my main in reasonably fitted t2 bc/bs hulls. I can do this because i'm counting on new players to buy those PLEX with cash and put them on the market often enough to keep the price reasonable. Most 5+ year vets I know do the same thing. Without a fresh influx of PLEX selling newbs every season we'd see a lot more vet decay simply because it's not practical for us to shell out cash for so many accounts rather than the isk we're already swimming in.

So, if CCP is going to keep it's older player base in the game (to say nothing of how happy they are), they have to indirectly support them by getting new players in frequently enough to keep the PLEX cycle running. Barring a real overhaul to the tradition of keeping a lot of active alt character/accounts and a complete re-design of many facets of the game, this will always be a part of their business model.

Stick Cult
Posted - 2010.10.04 20:54:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Straight Chillen
Remember what happened to SWG when they alienated their core player base?

Eve is alienating its core player base?

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Posted - 2010.10.04 21:10:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: Syn Callibri on 04/10/2010 21:11:46
Originally by: Stick Cult
Originally by: Straight Chillen
Remember what happened to SWG when they alienated their core player base?

Eve is alienating its core player base?


Yes, since 2003...didn't you get the memo? Wink


Stick Cult
Posted - 2010.10.04 21:16:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Stick Cult on 04/10/2010 21:17:32
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 04/10/2010 21:11:46
Originally by: Stick Cult
Originally by: Straight Chillen
Remember what happened to SWG when they alienated their core player base?

Eve is alienating its core player base?


Yes, since 2003...didn't you get the memo? Wink

Ahh, well of course. I thought he meant starting recently.. Razz

PeHD0M
Posted - 2010.10.04 21:22:00 - [114]
 

EvE is a very time consuming game. It's almost impossible to have some fun if you have like 30min - 1hour to play per day. I like pvp combats, but not in EvE.. because it's all eventually comes down to grinding isk and waiting for something to happen. Boring.

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.10.04 23:07:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: Kail Storm

It seems like I send 5 hours prepping and can pop from 100 Newbs on the other side and have to start all over refitting etc.

Im not saying at all im a pro but have been playing 4-5 Years and am very competent in PVP and the fact that nowdays we line up like old school Musket day Armys and pop away makes skill not relevant.

Eve has gone from small-ish groups of "Green Berets" "GSG9" "SAS" what evr you like best, to lines of untrained CHildren soilders with AK`s who can kill those others who are trained because I guy says "Fire"



Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!


basebasebasebasebasebasebasebasebase you have no chance to survive make your time


kinda off topic but wasn't it the japanese who bombed pearl harbor?

Orange Lagomorph
Posted - 2010.10.04 23:25:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: Orange Lagomorph on 04/10/2010 23:26:53
Originally by: Irae Ragwan
Without a fresh influx of PLEX selling newbs every season we'd see a lot more vet decay simply because it's not practical for us to shell out cash for so many accounts rather than the isk we're already swimming in.


One day, the pyramid will crumble... they always do. It's only a matter of time.

A single competent, direct competitor would greatly accelerate this process. Fortunately for CCP and spoiledvets, there is no competition. Every MMO released in the last five years has been nothing but rubbish, yet a competitor is still technically possible.

Competitor or no, someday the increasingly rookie-unfriendly atmosphere ("Must be able to fly or training to fly your own personal carrier to join", lmao) and extreme topheaviness will catch up with EVE. PLEX and GTC will become exponentially more expensive, and Humpty Dumpty will have a field day.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.10.05 06:28:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Typhado3
Originally by: HankMurphy
Originally by: Kail Storm

It seems like I send 5 hours prepping and can pop from 100 Newbs on the other side and have to start all over refitting etc.

Im not saying at all im a pro but have been playing 4-5 Years and am very competent in PVP and the fact that nowdays we line up like old school Musket day Armys and pop away makes skill not relevant.

Eve has gone from small-ish groups of "Green Berets" "GSG9" "SAS" what evr you like best, to lines of untrained CHildren soilders with AK`s who can kill those others who are trained because I guy says "Fire"



Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!


basebasebasebasebasebasebasebasebase you have no chance to survive make your time


kinda off topic but wasn't it the japanese who bombed pearl harbor?


I hope he was joking.


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